Letter writing, wells, menders and more


Adeon Hawkwood

 

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Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill View Post
Why?

You're thinking of him, I believe, in the little bit that we see - the Hollows arc and a few tip missions, where he's really just a lowbie villain/hero. I only mention it (aside from the powers) because of the high level Villain alignment mission... where you're living forever, having the power (or half the power) of a god - but he's been fighting you for, what, thousands of years with the same power, finally falling because of "Nethermatter?"

That's a fair bit of power - then again, the description there *does* sound very well-ish. Though I'm not sure why, if that's the case, he and you would only be "half-powered." After all, Cole and Richter aren't exactly half-powered - other than self limitation.

(Note I'm not really arguing for it *being* him, just bringing up some information that would give him power enough to do... much more than we're used to.)
I simply meant that Frostfire would be silly not in terms of low power, but because of how little-established he is. Leader of the Outcasts who later tries to redeem himself; appears in the Hollows and few missions outside of that. Revealing him as the Letter Writer/important would just be plain out of left field, where characters like Nemesis, Lady Grey, etc. are shown with a track record of being awesome and are well-established with characters.


 

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Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill View Post
That's a fair bit of power - then again, the description there *does* sound very well-ish. Though I'm not sure why, if that's the case, he and you would only be "half-powered." After all, Cole and Richter aren't exactly half-powered - other than self limitation.
From the way it was described, my thinking was that the player and Frostfire managed together to consume ALL the power of the Well, thus becoming, in all practicality, gods. In the end they are all that's left, each having half the power.

I freely admit, though, I haven't read that mission text since I18 beta. So I could have misinterpreted it, or could be misremembering, or it may even have been changed.


@Quasadu

"We must prepare for DOOM and hope for FREEM." - SirFrederick

 

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Originally Posted by Draugadan View Post
I always thought she was the Lady of the Lake, the one that gave Arthur (and then Hero 1) the sword. Though I can't remember what ever made me think that. Being around 7 years some things are a bit foggy.
That's not old content, actually. When possessing Hero 1, the well talks about "the sword that she gave him[/url]. Hero 1 wields Excalibur, King Arthur's sword, which was given to him by the Lady of the Lake. This is immediately followed by you visiting "the Lady Grey" as Gaussian refers to her, who then proves knowledgeable far beyond any justification for it. It's not even a conclusion to reach that the game is inferring that Lady Grey is the Lady of the Lake. The mission structure is engineered - whether intentionally or not - to more or less implant that notion in your head. I'm almost tempted to call it a red herring because it's at the same time so seemingly obvious and yet never actually said at any point in the story.


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Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

 

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Anybody reading this thread ought to know they are reading spoilers, but just in case: ************SPOILERS AHOY******************

The biggest argument against the Letter Writer being someone contemporary hero or villain is that LW appears to be a contemporary of Mender Silos. S/he knows who or what the Coming Storm is and s/he is able to determine at one point that Silos' futzing around with the time-space continuum is having some real effect on the outcome. Even the menders under Silos have a difficult time with figuring that sort of thing out.

Then there's this passage, from the Twilight's Son letter:
"Again, be cautious of those you speak to about this; the Menders are aware of my existence, but not my time or location and they would not take kindly to you associating with me. All I ask of you now is to do your duty, pursue the truth and look for more of my letters."

That doesn't sound like someone who would be easily located by simply walking into the Vanguard DPO.

Honestly, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if LW is Nemesis himself, or one of his self-aware duplicates. Given the way he's replicated his mind/brain around, and we even know of several alternate-universe versions of him, a second Lord Nemesis running around our space-time is no huge leap of logic to make.

Here's the thing about Mender Silos - if he's truly our version of Lord Nemesis then he lives for eons past the actual event that he calls The Coming Storm, given that it's "coming" in the near future and he's already delayed it slightly.

Yet, he somehow regrets his part in the arrival of this Coming Storm. So, he somehow survives it and manages to live for hundreds of thousands of years. Meanwhile, some theoretically post-apocalyptic future exists where Tess would be a fearsome warlord, implying the sort of future where Khan had succeeded in ruling the Star Trek Earth.

So, the Coming Storm does not immediately destroy the world, regardless of whether it destroys Ouroboros. Or, alternatively, it destroys the planet or destroys civilization but does not completely destroy humanity.

Nemesis plays some part in the whole thing that somehow contributes to the damage they do. The real question is - What part did he play? How is he attempting to undo it? IS he attempting to undo it or is he attempting to change things to some alternate future where he has a world to rule?

LW knows the answers to these questions and is opposing Silos' agenda, whatever he perceives it to be. I just don't see how that could be someone from our time. I suppose it could be a future version of someone we know, just like Silos, but somehow I don't get that feeling.

If LW really is someone from the 20th/21st century then it's someone who discovered time travel independently of the Menders, traveled to the future and saw what Silos had left behind, and is now opposing him on principle. I don't believe that it's anyone we know unless it turns out to be someone completely unexpected.

Holsten is pretty well convinced that the Coming Storm is a new Rikti invasion, so I don't really expect to find out that he is behind it. He doesn't strike me as the Temporal General type anyway.

If this Battalion is the Coming Storm then I'd expect that Silo's mistake is that Lord Nemesis willingly joins up with them or even summons them in the first place. For whatever reason, Silos is avoiding acting directly against his earlier self. LW appears to be unshackled by such considerations, an argument in favor of LW being someone who is NOT an alternate Nemesis.

I'd also count LW's untracability (yeah, I made that word up) as evidence of LW being a person from a possible future also. Whether LW cares about preventing the Coming Storm or even believes in it is an open question. S/he appears to be all about disrupting Silos' agenda rather than "saving the world" in the sense that we would normally think of that phrase.


 

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Letter Writer is future us. Calling it now.


 

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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow View Post
That's not old content, actually. When possessing Hero 1, the well talks about "the sword that she gave him[/url]. Hero 1 wields Excalibur, King Arthur's sword, which was given to him by the Lady of the Lake. This is immediately followed by you visiting "the Lady Grey" as Gaussian refers to her, who then proves knowledgeable far beyond any justification for it. It's not even a conclusion to reach that the game is inferring that Lady Grey is the Lady of the Lake. The mission structure is engineered - whether intentionally or not - to more or less implant that notion in your head. I'm almost tempted to call it a red herring because it's at the same time so seemingly obvious and yet never actually said at any point in the story.
Maybe it's because my first exposure to Lady Grey was from buying the TCG, but I never got any of that "Lady of the Lake" stuff. I've always taken her at pretty much face value. She's "The Lady Grey" because she is literally a Lady (a title implying her social station in the day and age she was born into) and her name is Elizabeth Grey or Victoria Grey, take your pick. Her super powers just play into her name. Addressing her as The Lady Grey is no different than addressing England's Prince Charles as The Prince of Wales.

She comes from a time when the words "Lord" and "Lady" meant something other than just a polite generic appelation.


 

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I will note (sort of in response to your rather nice elaboration, Riptide), that the Letter Writer does really need to be someone we know and have met and interacted with, and not, to quote Tami Baker, "something boring, like, 'Oh, it was random person A who was the leader all along'. That would be very unfortunate." When you have a good mystery story, all your valid suspects need to be around before the mystery part begins.

Hence, why I like the Vanguard folks, am rather less keen on Prometheus (he's shown up before the reveal, but is way later than the actual letters started appearing), and, to be frank, think the idea of some Nemesis clone we don't know or a time-traveler from the future would both be sorta anti-climactic.


 

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Originally Posted by EvilGeko View Post
I'm sticking with the Lady Grey and/or the Dark Watcher. Everything that has happened so far makes it appear that Vanguard is the group looking to fight ALL threats external to our world and dimension. I-21 shows that Vanguard is again going to be on the front lines against the Battalion, which is certainly the Coming Storm.

Finally, Serpent Drummers arc shows that the Lady Grey and Mender Silos may have had a long animosity in the old days.

The only thing that concerns me about Lady Grey is that Dean MacArthur's bit about the person being male. But I could see Dark Watcher or another agent handling that bit.

Both of them also seem completely willing to turn a blind eye to the actions of the people they recruit, which you would need if you were going to recruit someone like Protean.


 

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Speaking of red herrings, does anyone have a cite for where the LW says that he gave the Midnighters their crystal. The only reference I see is in the ITF letter, where he asks if you've thought about where Montague got the crystal, implying but not actually stating that he was the source.

As far as the LW's identitiy, I'm going to go with DJ Zero; an Incarnate with trans-dimensional abilities, history of getting heroes and villains to work together, and Nemesis hair.


"Trust me, it worked in the Simpsons." - Calash

 

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It's DJ Zero.

You heard it here first, folks.










Maybe.


Edit: Dammit Jasra.


@Quasadu

"We must prepare for DOOM and hope for FREEM." - SirFrederick

 

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Is "DJ Zero" an anagram of "Lord Nemesis"? *calculates* ..... No. Huh, I was sure on that one (actually DJ Zero is a neat idea)

Personally I don't buy the "Silos is future Nemesis who wants to redeem himself for something" angle. There's just something fishy about it. Silos isn't who he appears to be, and he certainly isn't who it says in the "Ask about this contact" window.


 

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The idea I always liked is that it's Faathim the Kind. Admittedly this isn't a perfect solution, the letters seem a bit odd in their wording if it is him (such as the phrase "What about the version of Mender Silos from Faathim's reality?") but I think he does work as a possibility.

That being said I think the most likely solution is that we have not let encountered the letter writer in game. In Silos's SF he says "While you have not yet met me face to face" and in Silos's TF he says "Again, I apologize for my inability to meet with you in person." Given that both of these are level 46-50 that tends to imply that he isn't anyone we've met in the level 1-50 content. Admittedly the wording is a bit vague and does allow for the possibility that we've met an older version of him but not actually met the letter writing version the implication seems to be that he is not involved in level 1-50 content. He could, potentially be involved with the Incarnate content but as others have said I hope it's not Prometheus.


 

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Could be an aspect of Rularru or better yet Rularru himself writing the letters. He is trying to stop Silos and break free of the Shadow Shard. Giving the Midnighters a pillar to pit them against each other until he can claim the Malleus Mundi to basically control reality and stop anyone from binding him again. Which ties in the Circle of Thorns and Nemisis' presence in the Shadow Shard, or something like that.


 

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It would be interesting if Future Lord Nemesis is actually some kind of fractured personality ala Rularuu, and Nemesis, Silos, and DJ Zero are all aspects of the original "Lord Nemesis". That would even allow for LW to actually be "Lord Nemesis" himself without it being a contradiction.


 

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Originally Posted by SlickRiptide View Post
It would be interesting if Future Lord Nemesis is actually some kind of fractured personality ala Rularuu, and Nemesis, Silos, and DJ Zero are all aspects of the original "Lord Nemesis". That would even allow for LW to actually be "Lord Nemesis" himself without it being a contradiction.
What would be MORE interesting is if Future Nemesis actually was Rularuu.

Time travel, gods... it's possible, if confusing.


 

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What about the simple possibility of the LW being enemy action? SPOILERS AHEAD!!

I want to toss out the Battalion as a possibility. JUST did the 1st mish in the Oro into arc and read the letter again. Something odd that struck me is the LW didn't use the phrase "the coming storm". In fact the LW claimed not to specifically know the phrase used. That strikes me as odd.

The Battalion's motive would be misdirection and reducing enemy morale. Every moment you spend doubting Ouroboros and questioning it's leaders is a moment spent not fighting the coming storm.


It's not how many times you get knocked down that count. It's how many times you get up.

 

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Originally Posted by Justice Blues View Post
How about it being yourself? You become an Incarnate and live a very long time, going through the Coming Storm by teaming with an older you and the various people he has chosen, so when you get really old, you go back and write the letters to set yourself up to go along with yourself when you go back in time to gather the various folks like Protean and yourself.
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Originally Posted by Xanatos View Post
Letter Writer is future us. Calling it now.
In second place by an hour and 44 minutes.


Justice Blues, Tech/Tank, Inv/SS
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Fighting The Future Trilogy
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Originally Posted by Mr_Samoa View Post
Personally I don't buy the "Silos is future Nemesis who wants to redeem himself for something" angle. There's just something fishy about it. Silos isn't who he appears to be, and he certainly isn't who it says in the "Ask about this contact" window.
Mender Ramiel says:

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"Mender Silos holds many secrets, and he likes to think his identity is one of them. Many have ventured that he is actually Lord Nemesis, and I can confirm that as one of his previous aliases.

But I must caution you, the Lord Nemesis of this time and Mender Silos may be the same person, but they are hundreds of thousands of years removed from one another. People change, and the Menders of Ouroboros follow a leader who knows that what he did in the past was wrong and is trying to correct those mistakes."


@Golden Girl

City of Heroes comics and artwork

 

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Originally Posted by SlickRiptide View Post
Maybe it's because my first exposure to Lady Grey was from buying the TCG, but I never got any of that "Lady of the Lake" stuff. I've always taken her at pretty much face value. She's "The Lady Grey" because she is literally a Lady (a title implying her social station in the day and age she was born into) and her name is Elizabeth Grey or Victoria Grey, take your pick. Her super powers just play into her name. Addressing her as The Lady Grey is no different than addressing England's Prince Charles as The Prince of Wales.

She comes from a time when the words "Lord" and "Lady" meant something other than just a polite generic appelation.
<tangent>
Actually, I just kind of assumed she and Lady Jane were named from the same source (for no particular reason) - the Lady Jane Grey (AKA the 9 day queen.)

Likely just from liking the (not exactly accurate) movie and a bit of fascination with her.

</tangent>


 

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Originally Posted by Mr_Samoa View Post
What would be MORE interesting is if Future Nemesis actually was Rularuu.

Time travel, gods... it's possible, if confusing.
He's somehow tied in with the Dark Watcher (IIRC.) Not Nemesis.

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Originally Posted by Ironik View Post
That's actually what I've always thought, too.
Then why would they keep saying we haven't met?


 

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Originally Posted by Mr_Samoa View Post
It's never specifically said that Lady Grey is The Lady of the Lake, but it is somewhat implied and it was never DISproven, either.
I'm partial to the idea that she's Morganna le Fay. Why is she helping Hero-1? How would I know?

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Originally Posted by Xanatos View Post
Letter Writer is future us. Calling it now.
Doesn't account for female characters and Dean's affirmation that LW is male.


61866 - A Series of Unfortunate Kidnappings - More than a coincidence?
2260 - The Burning of Hearts - A green-eyed monster holds the match.
379248 - The Spider Without Fangs - NEW - Some lessons learned (more or less.)

 

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Originally Posted by TheDeepBlue View Post
I'm partial to the idea that she's Morganna le Fay. Why is she helping Hero-1? How would I know?


Doesn't account for female characters and Dean's affirmation that LW is male.
Actually, if we bought into the original idea of incarnates as being personifications of deity/concept then the idea that Morganna or Vivianne/Ninianne could have been incarnates with the same source as Lady Grey would be a tenable one. Maybe even something they considered back in the early days before Incarnation morphed into its current state.

Nowadays, I'd say she's just Lady Grey w/o any other affiliation.


 

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Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill View Post
Yes. Very first mission you get from him. Not sure how you'd miss them.
Sometimes they honestly don't show up. I've done the mission a few times on different computers, and only once did they appear. The times I didn't see them, I went out of my way to search for them. Looked all over the map. They just weren't there.