If only it were as easy as volunteering for the beta...I'm sure we'd have no shortage of testers.
And the things is, there's somebody over there who is knowledgable and is paying some attention. When I had two recent problems (with the Launcher and that issue with the Mac nVidia cards), support got back to me in a timely fashion with detailed, accurate, and ultimately effective instructions on how to get things working again. If I were the Mac-knowledgable person at Paragon, I'd sure as heck want whole bunches of testers looking at the stuff I'm writing and/or supporting. One suspects that the Mac platform must have minuscule political support within the organization.
Quote of the moment: This, too, shall pass.
Justice superteamers: We have a website now, in case the forums get closed early. If you've ever run with us, come visit us again before the curtain falls. We're running bucket list characters--anything you've always wanted to play but never got around to.
Quote:
Aside from sending bug reports to Paragon and/or Transgaming, what exactly can we, the Mac client users, do? I'm not a programmer, I don't know the first thing about it. I can only -describe- the problems I encounter, I certainly can't troubleshoot them.|
Originally Posted by CuppaManga
I hope this isn't true, but if it is, I hope everyone learns from this that the fate of the Mac client lies with us all.
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Now I've seen some comments in this thread about Mac players not helping enough...
When I look at this Mac forum, it's a sea of complaints about (largely) the same problems that have been completely unaddressed, and frankly unacknowledged, for a very long time. What else can be done? From where I'm standing, I see a lot of Mac players making their troubles known, while Paragon remains (mostly) silent. If Paragon and Transgaming remain unmoved by our complaints, then what is left to do? Bad reviews and ratings?
Personally I think NCSoft should re-evaluate it's relationship with Transgaming, but I imagine that the Mac portion of the player base is too small to warrant any drastic measures to remedy the situation.
"There's villainy ... and then there's supervillainy. The difference is performance."
-Doc_Reverend
There is a big difference about the issue with Freedom and the Paragon Market compared to any of the other problems we had to deal with in the past, and I think it's important to focus on that.
Nalrok, I know there have been troubling issues in the past, but for the most part we found workarounds and they never affected all Mac players. Of course those things should be addressed, but lets focus on the one big, indisputable and unavoidable issue for now: Should Freedom go live with the current Paragon Market issue in place, this game will be pretty much unplayable for ALL Mac users.
(I consider the Paragon Market central to Freedom, and without access to it, we have at best access to a severely crippled version of the game)
I hate to get worked up unnecessarily, but as we have no reliable information whether we are close to Freedom going live, we should proceed as if we are (until we hear otherwise).
Absent of real numbers regarding the percentage of Mac based players, I think all we can do is make sure that we are heard. This time the issues are not occasional crashes and memory leaks that may affect some players. We all need to speak up, and all Mac based players should be motivated to speak up. If there is no change, we won't be able to play this game on a Mac. Period.
Zwillinger, if you have any information regarding how close we are to going live with Freedom and how likely it is that this bug will get addressed beforehand, now(TM) would be a great time to inform us about this.
Trust me Cuppa, you are not the only Mac player testing the beta clients...you just are the best at it 
. Every closed beta that I have been invited to, I logged on and played various aspects of the game and especially the new content. Most of the major issues I found, you or someone else had already reported on the boards. But I bugged things in game, and added the occasional post. You are not alone out there, and nobody feels that it's your responsibility to catch and solve all the Mac issues. I for one am grateful for the knowledge you have shared in the past.
je_saist, thanks for the e-mail addresses. I am a little reluctant to bug the Transgaming guys as I have been paying Paragon/NCSoft for this game. I think our first point of contact needs to be with them.
Quote:
Gonna chime in here...|
Originally Posted by Nalrok_AthZim
Can you fix the mac client's Assertion Failures?
Can you fix the memory leak? Can you fix the improper caching of graphics to memory? IS THERE ANY REASON I SHOULD KEEP USING THE MAC CLIENT? |
Is there any reason I should keep playing?
(warning: rant forthcoming)
If these issues aren't fixed, I may not be able to, and if I still get crashed by our shiny lovely $Paragon Market™ when Freedom hits, I'm going to have to quit - regardless of having paid to next February. Regardless of how much I enjoy the game and community. Regardless of how cool everything in I21 seems. Regardless of how quickly I fell in love with my Time/Arch in open beta.
Regardless of how much time and money I've already spent on the game.
If I can't get to the Market, I can't play and pay as a VIP. If I can't have the features that were promised to me as a VIP, I am not in truth, a VIP. If I am not getting what I am paying for, I am in essence being exploited.
I will not be exploited.
This is not a threat. It's a statement of fact. I CAN'T set up a dual boot on my laptop - I have neither the hard drive space nor the Windows license.
I've always had the oddest feeling about the Mac forum being under "Player Help" and not say... Development, with the bugs forum (because pretty much all that is posted here is bugs, bugs, bugs). It feels dismissive, marginalizing, and shows a clear lack of understanding for our needs.
The game is sold and advertised as Mac-compatible, but every day it becomes less so. Starting to smell like false advertising. It feels like they'd LOVE to drop Mac support entirely, but can't.
(/rant)
I'm going to guess that there was at least one Mac player in closed beta, otherwise this would not be a KNOWN issue right out of the gate for open beta.
I'm also going to guess that Paragon doesn't have enough Mac support and QA sorts handy, just from the apparent echo chamber this forum is.
As for getting into closed beta... when is an 18mo vet EVER going to get into closed beta? I'm too "young" for the "privilege" of closed beta - or so it seems. Crying shame that CuppaManga and je_saist weren't invited, too.
*clears throat*
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
Currently the Mac Client has some critical issues when attempting to access the Issue 21 Beta.
Thanks and our sincere apologies for this inconvenience. |
Leave it at this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Isjgc0oX0s
Johnny Turbo | Phanto
THE CHALLENGERS: Challenge Accepted
HONORARY MEMBER: WARE.gov (Said I couldn't officially join because I'm too good at PvP)
I wasn't invited either, and I've been in most of the closed betas prior to I19.
My guides:Dark Melee/Dark Armor/Soul Mastery, Illusion Control/Kinetics/Primal Forces Mastery, Electric Armor
"Dark Armor is a complete waste as a tanking set."
Quote:
Warning: semi-rambling rant, bear with it.|
Originally Posted by _Toxa_
Personally I think NCSoft should re-evaluate it's relationship with Transgaming, but I imagine that the Mac portion of the player base is too small to warrant any drastic measures to remedy the situation.
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I'd agree that NCSoft should re-evaluate their relationship with Transgaming. On the surface, Transgaming has a history of taking on "too many" projects and simply not having enough resources to address specific problems. E.G., Cedega 8 series was in a beta stage for almost close to 2 years before it was converted into G.T.L. Up to the present the G.T.L. files are available for download, but there's still no support structure such as the one we, speaking as Cedega beta testers, had with the Cedega beta's.
We, speaking as City of Heroes subscribers, have never been informed of exactly what the relationship between Transgaming and NCSoft entails. For all we know NCSoft has to pay for each and every specific bug that needs to be addressed... and it's possible that NCSoft won't pay to fix bugs that don't break the game... meaning that updates to fix bugs only come when Transgaming updates their internal Cider/Cedega builds..
Now, given Transgaming's track-record, they have proved that they know what they are doing when it comes to emulating Windows clients in *nix-type operating systems, partially because Transgaming does use proprietary-licensed software if it will translate into better compatibility.
As a general rule of thumb, I tend to question the need for an emulation environment to begin with. Going back to my specific point of contention on the "new" NCSoft launcher, had NCSoft used a platform-neutral toolkit with a platform-neutral API, the launcher would have likely been a non-issue for users not using a Microsoft Windows Operating System. On some level NCSoft has to understand the benefits of platform neutral tools given that several open-source software packages are used by the company. In the case of the new launcher, it leverages a GPL'd software package known as Xdelta. Ergo, somebody in NCSoft had to have understood the requirements of Xdelta's license and on some level somebody in NCSoft had to sign off on the use of a GPL software'd product.
My opinion, as somebody external to the actual development, is that NCSoft / Paragon Studios would be best served in the long run by getting the game-client itself running natively on OSX and Linux in addition to running natively on Windows. I don't think a mis-understanding of licenses such as the GPL that is generally attributed to a lack of Linux ports from commercial developers would apply to a company that apparently does understand those license's.
However, as somebody external to that actual development, I can't imagine such a conversion to be an easy task. The game's engine architecture was developed back in 2001 and 2002, a year before Mepis Linux would revolutionize the Linux LiveCD market, and at least two years before Mark Shuttleworth would poor Money into Ubuntu and capitalize on the ground Mepis Linux broke. 2001 / 2002 would have also placed development of the game before Apple's Ipod Renaissance.
Given the development timeline that I am aware of, I would have to assume that the game-client was originally built with several assumptions about the operating system in use, and that getting the game-client to compile and run natively on other operating systems is likely functionally impossible.
In that aspect, an emulation-wrapper may have been the only realistic method of getting City of Heroes to run on other platforms, neverminding the associated costs with having to hire or train developers to work on OSX and Linux platforms.
Could I make an argument for NCSoft to simply do what Google did with Picasa, and pull directly from W.I.N.E. and build their own emulation-wrappers around the game-client and simply run their own builds internally?
While such a method would indeed be more cost-efficient than getting the engine working directly on OSX and Linux, given that the game is already 99% supported through the W.I.N.E. base, it would require hiring or training developers to work with W.I.N.E.
Could I make an argument to NCSoft to pay for a "new" client for the game that is content compatible but easily portable from platform to platform?
A brand-new binary-engine client would likely be able to resolve several performance and / or legacy issues. The disadvantage to a new game-client is determining what is kept in and what is kept out of the client. For example, let's say the new client scraps all of the rendering information that isn't required for Ultra-Mode graphics? Well, now how do we deal with everybody who doesn't have computer systems that can't drive Ultra-Mode graphics?
The point I'm leading to here is that a re-evaluation of the relationship with Transgaming opens up hard-questions about what to do with the game itself. Given the costs that could be associated with some of the potential solutions outlined here, it is possible that NCSoft could conclude that the best re-evaluation result is a simple termination.
I'd like to ask Cuppa and Je_Saist how we can help, since there doesn't seem to be much we can do on the NCsoft front. For example, how does one get into a closed Beta? I wasn't even aware it was going on until it was WELL underway. I'd like to help, I'd just need some pointers on how, as a pretty casual gamer who still doesn't want his toy taken away because he did nothing.
Quote:
I moved the potted plant to the other side of my balcony, but there was never a message in my newspaper.|
Originally Posted by Netphenix5
For example, how does one get into a closed Beta?
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Actually, my understanding is that it's don't ask, don't tell. Don't ask to get in, and don't tell if you do. Although I did hint pretty heavily in the last couple support tickets I opened that I'd love to help test.
Who knows, maybe the wildly optimistic scenario is this: sometimes when Paragon is quiet and cagey, they're Working On Something. Maybe a new or radically improved Mac client is in Double-Secret Internal Probationary Alpha Testing. I Want To Believe.
To be honest, my guess is the issue is neither Dooom! nor Rainbow unicorns!, but some boring, tedious, and messy, but not sinister, real-world issue. And my bet is the resolution will be similarly unremarkable: access to the Paragon Market issue in a vaguely reasonable time frame but no other change to the client.
I now have a sudden urge to create a character named "reloadgfx". Or we should have a Mac SG with that name. (Apologies for the rambling; I'm on vacation.)
Quote of the moment: This, too, shall pass.
Justice superteamers: We have a website now, in case the forums get closed early. If you've ever run with us, come visit us again before the curtain falls. We're running bucket list characters--anything you've always wanted to play but never got around to.
Netphenix, closed beta invites are supposedly random. The initial phase was often followed by a round of veteran players being invited. And than it was onto open beta. Veteran status was probably not a factor during the closed beta of Freedom though. I have been here since the original COH Beta, and was not invited, though I have been in many other closed betas during my time here. So I don't think that there is anything we can actively do to get into the closed beta.
And maybe that should be different. As there is a much smaller group of Mac players, it probably would not be a bad idea to set a quota for including a certain number of us into closed beta. It's a common way to make sure that minorities are appropriately represented.
And Starry, I too hope that this will be resolved, but I don't think I will rely on that hope. This is one of those situation where it's really too late once it's too late. Now is the time to speak up. Politely.
Quote:
Closed Beta is invitation only, and the criteria is unknown except to Paragon. |
Originally Posted by Netphenix5
I'd like to ask Cuppa and Je_Saist how we can help, since there doesn't seem to be much we can do on the NCsoft front. For example, how does one get into a closed Beta? I wasn't even aware it was going on until it was WELL underway. I'd like to help, I'd just need some pointers on how, as a pretty casual gamer who still doesn't want his toy taken away because he did nothing.
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But, I don't believe they have an automated way to tell if you're a Mac tester unless you tell them. So if you want to help out and get involved, make your intentions known: Post here and send a PM to, I believe, Skippy Sidekick or Zwillinger.
Manga @ Triumph
"Meanwhile In The Halls Of Titan"...Titan Network Working To Save City Of Heroes
Save Paragon City! Efforts Coordination
Quote:
I have to echo Toxa here. It is all high and mighty of some of you to say "we need to act" or some other rant. I have no power here: I was not invited to any Beta test; I have no skill at program trouble shooting; If the game craps out, all I know how to do is restart the damn thing; I can't compile or any other crap that you software oriented people do.|
Originally Posted by _Toxa_
Aside from sending bug reports to Paragon and/or Transgaming, what exactly can we, the Mac client users, do? I'm not a programmer, I don't know the first thing about it. I can only -describe- the problems I encounter, I certainly can't troubleshoot them.
Now I've seen some comments in this thread about Mac players not helping enough... When I look at this Mac forum, it's a sea of complaints about (largely) the same problems that have been completely unaddressed, and frankly unacknowledged, for a very long time. What else can be done? From where I'm standing, I see a lot of Mac players making their troubles known, while Paragon remains (mostly) silent. If Paragon and Transgaming remain unmoved by our complaints, then what is left to do? Bad reviews and ratings? Personally I think NCSoft should re-evaluate it's relationship with Transgaming, but I imagine that the Mac portion of the player base is too small to warrant any drastic measures to remedy the situation. |
So F you for acting like I am not doing my part.
Let me say that again: F you.
I am a paid subscriber to CoH. When I have something happen to my game, I report it as best I can. While I've had Assertion Failures from time to time, it never seems to be as chronic as some people have described. I've created a macro for dealing with the memory leaks, so that is usually not a problem for me. I went through the "Black Screen" issue a while back, but did my best to report the results. Outside of that, that is all I can do.
Obviously, NCSoft had no Mac people on the closed Beta. We need to have one CoH Mac player that lives in that area to go down and knock on their doors and ask "WTF?!?" How can such a "bug" be allowed to exist? Really, what are the Marx Brothers doing code in that building?
WE CAN'T GET INTO THE MARKET!!!! NCSOFT, ARE YOU LISTENING? A PORTION OF YOUR PAID AND FUTURE CLIENTS CAN NOT ACCESS A MAJOR ELEMENT OF YOUR GAME AND A SOURCE OF YOUR REVENUE. DO SOMETHING! DO SOMETHING FOR F*%& SAKE.
If i21 goes live, and the Mac community has no fix, I'm not only canceling my subscription, but I'll demand the money back from the advanced payment I've made. I'm sure we would have grounds on breach of contract or services not rendered. That is the only power I have, to not give them money. So far, the only thing they have earned is my desire to take back what is mine.
Just a couple of thoughts:
Apple customers tend to have a higher percentage of disposable income. It's the reason Apple has greater cash reserves than the US government. If I were NCSoft, i'd want to appeal to that demographic.
Let's talk about ways to work around this problem. Rebooting to Boot Camp is an option, but that's a pain. I have had success running the beta client under Parallels 6/Win 7, including accessing the Paragon Points store. Yes you have to install Windows, but at least you don't have to reboot. Any other workarounds?
Oh, and I'm pretty sure vet status has little to do with closed beta invites. I've been here pretty much forever and only been in a couple.
Ideally, the tank will die precisely as everyone else starts fighting, allowing aggro to be spread evenly among the blaster. -seebs, "How to Suck at CoH/CoV" Guide
Quote:
Maybe for some of you, but this is NOT an option. I don't have Windows, or do I have any intention on getting Windows. That is why I own a F*&% MAC, so that I do not have to run Windows. I wish you people would quit throwing that idea around like everyone has or wants Windows. If i wanted to run Windows, I'd have a machine for that, not a Mac.
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Originally Posted by Stealth_Bomber
...Let's talk about ways to work around this problem. Rebooting to Boot Camp is an option, but that's a pain...
|
I can dual boot.
I would really freaking prefer not to though. Either this crap gets fixed or Paragon needs to tell us to jump ship.
My guides:Dark Melee/Dark Armor/Soul Mastery, Illusion Control/Kinetics/Primal Forces Mastery, Electric Armor
"Dark Armor is a complete waste as a tanking set."
Quote:
| I have to echo Toxa here. It is all high and mighty of some of you to say "we need to act" or some other rant. I have no power here: I was not invited to any Beta test; I have no skill at program trouble shooting; If the game craps out, all I know how to do is restart the damn thing; I can't compile or any other crap that you software oriented people do. |
Quote:
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Aside from sending bug reports to Paragon and/or Transgaming, what exactly can we, the Mac client users, do? I'm not a programmer, I don't know the first thing about it. I can only -describe- the problems I encounter, I certainly can't troubleshoot them. Now I've seen some comments in this thread about Mac players not helping enough... |
Ghost Falcon used to be a primary point of contact, but with his promotion, the task of dealing with Transgaming fell to Skippy Sidekick and Doc Delilah, who also have other tasks to accomplish within Paragon Studios. The lack of a known primary point contact raises a barrier between the players and the developers.
Whether or not anything is done about the problems posted about here on the forums largely comes down to whether or not the developers here read the forums, and/or whether or not the Moderators / Community Reps of the forums pass along threads of interest to the developers that the developers may have missed or skipped.
Ultimately, what we need before we can go any further... is more information. We, as subscribers of City of Heroes, need to know what the relationship between Transgaming and Paragon Studios is. We need to know whether or not Paragon Studios is doing the portage work in-house using tech from Transgaming; or if Paragon Studios hands Transgaming the completed source code that compiles for Microsoft Windows Operating Systems and Transgaming does all of the work on the Cider/G.T.L. tech on their end, then hands the modified packages back to Paragon Studios.
We, as City of Heroes subscribers, need to know whom we need to contact for bug reports. We need to know whom is responsible for getting those bugs addressed. Is it a Paragon Studios employee, or is it a Transgaming employee?
At the end of it all, I don't know what to tell you if you don't know how to enable debug mode, run the game under a Code Analyzer like Xcode-Shark, or read log-files. I went into this... somewhere...
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Kind of a difficult question to answer beyond "I'm having a crash" As far as I'm aware the City of Heroes Client does not support a -verbose command, nor is there a command to log from the console option that is available for the game client. |
Re: Getting involved in Mac testing:
I don't expect everyone to go as far as I do; I kind of enjoy figuring out how things work and coming up with workarounds. That's not really your job, or mine either, really.
What you can do, though, is if you're invited to a Closed Beta: Run with the Mac client once in a while, go around from zone to zone a bit, try anything that's a new interface (like Paragon Market, Auction House, etc) and visit anyplace in-game where you've had crashing, lag, or other problems before. Then if you find problems, post something to the Beta forums that says "This doesn't work".
If there's a really big problem with something working, and you can't get the devs' attention, PM me (being careful not to say anything protected by NDA - just "I'm having trouble getting attention for a crash" works fine) and I'll do my best to help. Sometimes two people making trouble is better than one. 
Paragon QA has some smart people that can figure out the rest, but they can't find these things randomly - they usually have to be told where to look first.
Manga @ Triumph
"Meanwhile In The Halls Of Titan"...Titan Network Working To Save City Of Heroes
Save Paragon City! Efforts Coordination
Quote:
Same for me. I have been, in the past, a systems administrator for Windows machines, and in the present, as a software developer, I've made some of my applications compatible with Windows. I didn't enjoy any of it. There's no way I am touching that OS again unless you are paying me to do so.|
Originally Posted by Davpa_CoX
Maybe for some of you, but this is NOT an option. I don't have Windows, or do I have any intention on getting Windows.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Stealth_Bomber
Apple customers tend to have a higher percentage of disposable income.
|
Quote of the moment: This, too, shall pass.
Justice superteamers: We have a website now, in case the forums get closed early. If you've ever run with us, come visit us again before the curtain falls. We're running bucket list characters--anything you've always wanted to play but never got around to.
Quote:
Really? That seems to be a pretty broad generalization. You obviously haven't seen my bank account or monthly budget. | Apple customers tend to have a higher percentage of disposable income. |
I have been a subscriber since the initial Beta...with the exception of a few months when I had to let my subscription lapse due to financial reasons. I do not play any other games, when I do I only find myself missing CoX so much that I end up returning.
I am in the same proverbial 'boat' as many people who have posted in this thread. I am sorely disappointed in the support that us Mac users have gotten and this issue with the 'Paragon Market' has only made me more upset. If 'Freedom' goes live with this major bug, I will be forced to cancel my subscription. I will not pay to have VIP status if I am not able to access many of the VIP features due to a programming bug....nor, will I install Windows on my machine, I shouldn't have to...this game is advertised as being Mac Compatible! I may continue to play as a 'Premium' player....but NCsoft will not receive another cent from me until the issues with the 'Paragon Market' and VIP status are resolved.
As for 'being more involved' with the testing side of things. I am not a programmer and would have no idea where to help solve any programming issues. When involved in Beta testing I am happy to play and report bugs as I see them, but other than that I'm afraid I am not much help.
It is my sincere hope that the Devs are truly trying to fix this problem and will not simply 'blow it off' as it seems they have done with some of the other problems with the Mac client.
Quote:
Manga, you've done more for the Mac community than most people do for their family, and I thank you from the bottom of my heart. But, the problem with this is that, in my attempts to raise awareness to the mac client problems in I21 beta, the majority of responses boiled down to either "this goes in the mac forum" or "did you read the known issues? Read the known issues this is in the known issues." I know it's important for us Mac folk to get into Closed Beta, but right now that really isn't important. Closed Beta invites don't really mean much to the Mac community when the problems we're having are two years old and haven't been addressed since Issue 13. We can plug away at the notion that getting under NDA and testing new content would help us but the problem isn't in Closed Beta; it's been Live for two years and no amount of beta testing will fix it.|
Originally Posted by CuppaManga
What you can do, though, is if you're invited to a Closed Beta: Run with the Mac client once in a while, go around from zone to zone a bit, try anything that's a new interface (like Paragon Market, Auction House, etc) and visit anyplace in-game where you've had crashing, lag, or other problems before. Then if you find problems, post something to the Beta forums that says "This doesn't work".
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Quite frankly this Mac forum is almost as bad as a two way mirror; we can post all we want about bugs but it hardly ever seems to get noticed as we look out from the dark room at everyone else's problems being handled, and anyone looking at our problems doesn't see anything. In that same sense, we post all we want and the devs can look in and see the problems, but we can't see what they're doing on the other side and never know if anything's even being done. If I had it my way, this Mac Users forum would be merged with Technical Issues/Bugs, BECAUSE THEY SERVE THE EXACT SAME PURPOSE. Segregation of PC users and Mac users is contributing to the apathy towards our problems. Hell, we can't post ANYWHERE about the mac client without some ******** belting out "Why isn't this in the mac forum?"
We need a solid contact from Paragon, a Redname dedicated to us mac users. We also need as much information about the current relationship with Transgaming and as much info about the mac client and how it works as possible.
I mean, look at this entire forum subsection. 11+ pages of threads, and 90% of them (I counted and did the math) are about the same bugs/crashes! THE SAME BUGS/CRASHES FOR TWO YEARS and all we've ever received from the devs has been "We're looking in to it." I know I always call people on being entitled, so the following is very hypocritical of my nature: All of these placating "We know, we're investigating" posts by Paragon are no longer enough. I am repeating myself, but:
-We need to know the exact relationship Paragon has with Transgaming.
-We need to know if the issues we're having have actually been mentioned.
-We need Zwill to clarify if his post stating the Cider wrapper isn't getting update is still the current plan, because if it is then the Mac client is as good as dead and I can start saving the stupid amount of money it costs to get a Windows 7 Home key.
The bold text is important. If the cider wrapper is not going to be updated, the Mac client is not worth supporting.
My guides:Dark Melee/Dark Armor/Soul Mastery, Illusion Control/Kinetics/Primal Forces Mastery, Electric Armor
"Dark Armor is a complete waste as a tanking set."
An update about this from a dev would be lovely!
Many of us have missed the opportunity to test the street justice powerset because we couldn't access the market (I believe it is being taken away from the market today).
A little "hello we haven't forgotten you" would be really appreciated
My biggest worry is Freedom hitting live and this bug still being there 
Clearly nothing is gained at this point by pointing fingers at each other, and personally I don't read those posts in the same way. To me they speak to the same frustration that we all are experiencing in regard to the minimal support of the Mac client.
What we can do now is make sure that we are being heard regarding this issue with the Paragon Market and Freedom. Maybe, if we are lucky, other solutions will come out of that. This is an undeniable game breaking problem that can not be solved on our end. Zwillinger referring to it as a "critical" issue, is encouraging to me, and I would love to hear something from Paragon that they are indeed treating it as a critical issue.
I don't want to go too far with the minority metaphors, but if we want to stop riding in the back of the bus, we need to come together and make clear to Paragon that we matter as a group. If you are reading this thread and are a Mac user, please add your voice. If you know some Mac users that you are not seeing represented here, PM them about this thread. Seeing posts from 20 or 30 people that rarely speak up will be much harder to ignore.
Another thought I have is that we may want to start a Mac global channel on Live. Not to segregate ourselves, but to have as a means of coming together when needed.
My opinion on dual booting is that if you boot into Windows to play the game, you are using the Windows client and not the Mac client. It's not a solution for the Mac client, though I understand that some people will choose to do this if the Mac client becomes unusable or severely compromised. Personally I am not sure what I would do, and I would rather not be forced to make that decision.
Quote:
Word! |
Originally Posted by je_saist
I'd also like to thank an NCSoft rep for stepping forward and saying something.
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It was frustrating to not even have this issue acknowledged. Glad to know it's being looked into.
Who do I have to *&^% around here to get more Targeted AoE recipes added?
Arc Name: Tsoo In Love
Arc ID: 413575
Issue 21 will not go live with this issue in place. The reason this was not addressed in closed beta is due to the need to coordinate such fixes with Transgaming.
There's a lot of moving parts with Issue 21 and Freedom, and a lot of things that need to be tested. Unfortunately, the timing on the known issues with the Paragon Market being addressed didn't line up with our need to start concurrency testing.
We are working with Transgaming to address this issue ASAP and will let you know the minute that it's corrected.
Thank you for being patient.
-Z
Andy Belford
Community Manager
Paragon Studios
I wouldn't. As a software developer (not related to Paragon) I too would be focused on getting those profits coming in, even at some risk or alienating a few customers. I can't fault them for that, I just wish the Mac testing would have worked out better.
I'm not irreplaceable, and I shouldn't be. I volunteer for CoH beta mostly because I want a well working Mac client, and I'm afraid nobody else will, and what happened this issue would happen. Next beta, or the one after that, who knows what will happen to me? I might easily be able to participate, or I might not be invited, or I might be too busy to squeeze it into my schedule. I don't mind being the person who has good troubleshooting skills for a complicated problem, but I should not be the only one testing at all.
Manga @ Triumph
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