The New Look for Circle of Thorns
By
A Musing Mage,
Posted on: 2011-08-08 10:57 in Developers' Corner
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Still a tad wow-ish but far far better then before. I can live with this and really like some of the parts!|
Originally Posted by El Topo
Howdee friends,
I wanted to take a moment and follow up on Positron’s post regarding the Circle of Thorns’ new look. We are very excited to introduce this modern take on an enemy group near and dear to your hearts. The Art team has worked very hard to update the look while still echoing the original theme. For example, the thorny look you see on the new pieces is based on the spiky elements in the first incarnation of Circle of Thorns. As Positron mentioned, there were some valid points made by you, our players, regarding the re-vamp and we have incorporated much of this feedback into the final look for this enemy group. More importantly though, I wanted to make sure you had a chance to see an assortment of costumes in all their glory. There are literally over 70 costumes associated with this re-vamp so we can’t show all of them in one image, but we have picked out ten and put together the line-up for you below. For those of you that want to try this look on your character, some of these costume pieces will be available in the Paragon Market later this year. Here is a list of the changes we are incorporating into this enemy group in an upcoming beta build:
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I do hope that you'll be giving the succubi a makeover and porting them heroside, along with the hellfrosts/lashers and adding female cot in general.
Good job on the updated look!
EDIT: WANT Those costume parts for my characters ^_^
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Bugger. Looks like the link broke.
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Originally Posted by Angerdog
I'm afraid I could not resist a quick sojourn into Photoshop.
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For thanking them for listening to us and working with our suggestions? Just because some of us still disagree with elements of the redesign doesn't mean we're adversarial about it. On the contrary, since the devs have responded positively to our feedback, there's every reason to submit more for them.|
Originally Posted by Zyphoid
Makes one wonder how many members of the art team are thinking "&#^$ you guys!" right now.
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Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane
First the costumes were "too spandex".
Now they're "too fantasy". |
Since this is ultimately an aesthetic discussion, there's no way to "win" or "lose". The only things either side can do is articulate their opinions and supply clear reasons for them. That's the way that constructive criticism results in mutually acceptable compromise.
My only dislikes are (1) they didn't keep the red/black scheme for the minions, and (2) dang, those hats got tall -- I keep looking at these guys and thinking, "Galactus?"
No serious visceral objections, though. The spikiness comes off a little ugly in the bosses, but, well...they ARE the Circle of Thorns after all, so spikiness fits.
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Right. I edited mine to agree with you about a shorter hat. I still think the differences in them, aside from that, are pretty minimal, even on Live, and the one new area of obscuring looks like it can't be helped that much, since the new aesthetic is spiky shoulders for all.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Well, the differences are kind of exactly as much as I think, because I double-checked in-game first before posting. Those two are easily distinguishable because the boss hats are much taller and only the bosses have the exaggerated spikes. The difference now is very minimal for every boss except the Death Mage. In my opinion the Bosses should look different from the minions in at least one or two overt visual ways beyond just color scheme.
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"I wish my life was a non-stop Hollywood movie show,
A fantasy world of celluloid villains and heroes."
I'm thinking in my head, when the new CoT spawn for a team of 8, will it look like a rainbowing throwing up? CoT shouldn't remind me of Rainbow Bright, My Little Pony, or Power Rangers.
They're the new Daleks all over again!
Mute the colors a bit -- but otherwise, these are good to go!
American Dawg, Starblaze, Neanderthal Joe, Shining Dawn, Tokamak Dragon, Stinger Incarnate, Burning Tyger, Dover Tornado, Big Roach, Dark Paladin, Archmage Wylde, Kings Row Hornet, Prancing Deer
Avogadro, Science Lord
Edgar Nightcraft, Doc Cicada, Chupa Macabre, Dr Forchtenstein, Blood Shrew
Well, I can't speak for the rest of the forum goe-ers but this certainly clears up my concerns about the revamp 
Still much spikier than the original, but now it's not spiky instead of the original look. And as Blizzard Entertainment, Games Workshop, and several others could tell you, spiky never goes out of style.
"I reject your reality and substitute my own!" Adam Savage from Mythbusters
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Nope, I agree constructive criticism, and even outright disliking them is great feedback. I was referring to those who go out of their way to make fun of them.
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Originally Posted by TrueGentleman
For thanking them for listening to us and working with our suggestions? Just because some of us still disagree with elements of the redesign doesn't mean we're adversarial about it. On the contrary, since the devs have responded positively to our feedback, there's every reason to submit more for them.
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I was also thinking about Ditko's idiosyncratic character designs, especially the baroque original designs for the collars and shouldergear for Dormammu and Nightmare. The big difference between them and the current CoT redesign is that the former fit perfectly with Ditko's proto-psychedelic mystic scenery and spell designs, while the latter is likely to clash with the art direction of the current CoH maps (unless those are going to receive a Chris Metzen-style redesign as well).
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Originally Posted by Obscure Blade
Actually it reminds me of the kind of guys who showed up in Doctor Strange comics. Impractically fancy outfits with multiple layers and parts sticking out all over.
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Originally Posted by Nethergoat
it's NEVER too late to pad your /ignore list!
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A lot better than what it was!
These are better, but I hope there are more toned down minions who like more like the original cultists. Overall, its a still a little too spikey for me (who on the art team has the fetish for big spikey shoulder pads? they seem to be turning up a lot lately) and I don't like the glowy belt pieces very much.
Always remember, we were Heroes.
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That's been the typical progression for most enemy groups in the game. And it's a very|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Well, the differences are kind of exactly as much as I think, because I double-checked in-game first before posting. Those two are easily distinguishable because the boss hats are much taller and only the bosses have the exaggerated spikes. The difference now is very minimal for every boss except the Death Mage. In my opinion the Bosses should look different from the minions in at least one or two overt visual ways beyond just color scheme.
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good point.
As it stands, it's not difficult at all, because(using current CoT as the example) you look
at a huge group of them, and it's immediately obvious after a few exposures who the more
dangerous targets are, without having to mouse/tab around to check what rank/con
everyone is.
The new ones... I'm not so sure that's going to the case either, as they look currently.
If players are having to spot-check the spawns too often to figure out who the priority
targets are, because it's not "user friendly" enough to tell otherwise, that's going to
cause problems.
Maybe that's why they stuck those fugly looking wings on the death mage. He needs a
better way to stand out in the crowd than a "Oh god why does everyone look like me
PAY ATTENTION TO ME PLEAAAAAASSSEEE!!" fastener on his back.
Sold
Phantom Rose: Ill / Kin / Psi
Soleau: Ice / Icy / Ice / Core: Ice / Fire / Pyre / Wind / Eclipse / Flare / Corona
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Solo Space
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I could get behind this. |
Originally Posted by Psychoti
Personally I hope there's just a little nod to it in NPC dialogue. Something like a newspaper guy shouting, "Tsoo missing from Steel Canyon! Circle of Thorns have new threads! Coincidence?"
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"Ooo! A little fight in you! I like that..."
"Then you're going to love me."
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I believe I fixed it, if not properly, then here you are again. |
Originally Posted by M_I_Abrahms
Bugger. Looks like the link broke.
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I have to call this one a miss - by a country mile. While the costumes are indeed awesome, they scream "21ST CENTURY" and "GENERIC BAD FANTASY ART" rather than whisper "ancient mystic group". You haven't (in Posi's words) made them "feel more magical, spiritual, thorny, spiky, and most of all, evil", you've just made them look silly and generic.
I don't think you understood the nature of the playerbase's complaints at all. You took a few bullet points, but you missed the underlying themes and contexts altogether.
http://derekl1963.livejournal.com/
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And all the NPCs in the image are male. I'm curious as to how the new costumes look on the female model.
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Originally Posted by je_saist
read the first post again.
There are over 70+ costumes involved in this revamp. |
"Ooo! A little fight in you! I like that..."
"Then you're going to love me."
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No doubt Noble Savage and el Topo are sufficiently professional that they'll disregard the snark from the few but inevitable malcontents, just as they'll make sure that the perpetual and unreflective praise of the most vocal "team dev" cheerleaders doesn't go to their heads. Given the way most gaming forum discussions go, we should be glad we have so few on either side.|
Originally Posted by Zyphoid
Nope, I agree constructive criticism, and even outright disliking them is great feedback. I was referring to those who go out of their way to make fun of them.
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In the meantime, this thread is going encouragingly well for late-period beta.
I like these much better. My only suggestion is that only the bosses should get the tall hats. From a distance, the minions and bosses look too similar.
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Everyone know the Tank Archetype get the most drops of all the types. This is because of their "Death Dealing" powers. I call it the front line bonus...but you'll never read this in the wiki - "Rx10"
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Well, I don't agree it can't be helped in theory, because clearly the Death Mage didn't get that memo: he's radically different looking. I'm not suggesting all the bosses look like the Death Mage, but I am suggesting the artists are clearly creative enough to stay within their "thorns for everyone" motif and still distinguish the bosses in some way, both from the minions and from each other.
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Originally Posted by Ms. Mesmer
Right. I edited mine to agree with you about a shorter hat. I still think the differences in them, aside from that, are pretty minimal, even on Live, and the one new area of obscuring looks like it can't be helped that much, since the new aesthetic is spiky shoulders for all.
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(Still, Zyphoid, you've got to admit that Angerdog's 'shopped Death Metal CoT concert is pretty funny.)
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OK yeah, that's funny and awesome. I'd buy tickets.
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Originally Posted by Angerdog
I believe I fixed it, if not properly, then here you are again.
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The Abrams is one of the most effective war machines on the planet. - R. Lee Ermy.
Q: How do you wreck an Abrams?
A: You crash into another one.
Quote:
When I saw the hands and the fog on the "stage" it became more funny. It does make me think of a GWAR concert. |
Originally Posted by TrueGentleman
(Still, Zyphoid, you've got to admit that Angerdog's 'shopped Death Metal CoT concert is pretty funny.)
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Still, I know how it would make me feel. It is not that I am unprofessional, it is that I am human.
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But will we still have female Oranbegans?
There are over 70+ costumes involved in this revamp.