Enhancer slots for sale in Paragon Market?


Adeon Hawkwood

 

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I be okay if you could buy up to 6 more max Slots per character maybe even make it so only VIPs could buy it or at least they have to be tier 9


 

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Originally Posted by Amerikatt View Post
]I have to raise a tiny kitty eyebrow at the mention of phrases like "game-breaking", "overpowered", and "segregation", as these (again!) sound like they are being bandied-about with regard to PvP.
And has been explained, again, they are not being said with regard to PVP.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amerikatt View Post
I have to raise a tiny kitty eyebrow at the mention of phrases like "game-breaking", "overpowered", and "segregation", as these (again!) sound like they are being bandied-about with regard to PvP.
/send "My favorite global channel" +4 Master of (insert TF here) forming, room for 3. Must have all T4s and all powers 6-slotted!

No, nobody would ever do that...


EDIT: /unsigned, /jranger, and even /power - because his suggestions were usually better than this one.


@Roderick

 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amerikatt View Post
I have to raise a tiny kitty eyebrow at the mention of phrases like "game-breaking", "overpowered", and "segregation", as these (again!) sound like they are being bandied-about with regard to PvP.

I dont pvp and yet still think it would be over powered. Crazy, I know.

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This feature (at least) is *not* divisive, but available to everyone who chooses to pursue it.


Please explain to me with a straight face how anything in this game is unavailable to to anyone who chooses to pursue it.


 

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Originally Posted by Roderick View Post
/send "My favorite global channel" +4 Master of (insert TF here) forming, room for 3. Must have all T4s and all powers 6-slotted!

No, nobody would ever do that...


EDIT: /unsigned, /jranger, and even /power - because his suggestions were usually better than this one.
You sound sarcastic. Of course, I think you're wrong. Not that it wouldn't happen, just that it's not like that can't happen now.

]/send "My favorite global channel" +4 Master of (insert TF here) forming, room for 3, Must have all T4's and IOed out build!


BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection

 

Posted

I know that it happens now (fortunately, not in the channels that I hang out in). Adding this option would just give the l33t pwnzorz even more reason to wave their e-peens at each other.

And in the end, it would add nothing of real value to the game.


@Roderick

 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roderick View Post
I know that it happens now (fortunately, not in the channels that I hang out in). Adding this option would just give the l33t pwnzorz even more reason to wave their e-peens at each other.

And in the end, it would add nothing of real value to the game.
Nothing of real value? Al mybuilds that I took powers with for just the awesome/concept reasons and didn't slot them because I needed slots elsewhere would disagree with you

Or my tight builds that could just use a few more slots period.


BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection

 

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Originally Posted by SkarmoryThePG
Honestly, if you need an explanation why, you shouldn't even be posting any suggestion related to game balance.
Since I "obviously" do *not* "understand" why people consider my suggestion to be "game-breaking" and you are deriding me because I am asking for an explanation, perhaps *you* would be kind enough to explain it to me (rather than being dismissive).



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Originally Posted by SkarmoryThePG View Post
Absolutely no. Never.

Honestly, if you need an explanation why, you shouldn't even be posting any suggestion related to game balance.

No.

What a nasty thing to say. . .


 

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Originally Posted by Amerikatt View Post
William's comment about it being "overpowered" makes me think that that is a PvP argument and is not a valid arguement for the PvE game.
It would get extremely boring to actually play. I already have builds that are incredibly strong due to how I managed them. If I could 6-slot everything in my inv/ss Tanker's build, she'd likely go from being able to solo +4/x8 Malta to being able to solo iTrials. There would be no challenge at all anymore. No challenge to get the best build possible because you can just 6-slot everything and no challenge at all to any of the game-play.

I believe that the current level of power is appropriate. A couple extra slots might be acceptable, but enough to 6-slot everything would be ridiculous.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roderick View Post
I know that it happens now (fortunately, not in the channels that I hang out in). Adding this option would just give the l33t pwnzorz even more reason to wave their e-peens at each other.

And in the end, it would add nothing of real value to the game.
so you know it happens but not in any channel you are part of so what your going on all heresy or what? I play on freedom the most populated power gamer speed server around and I have never NEVER saw anyone ask for such teammates for a TF/trial anything. Honestly I think your blowing smoke out your azz why I have no idea maybe it's a superiority complex maybe you just spend to much time in other mmos and your carrying your baggage here like I said IDK.


 

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100% absolutely no reason for this. Mids works wounderfully for this type of thing. Plan your builds out before hand.


 

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Originally Posted by Amerikatt View Post
I think that it would be pretty neat to get +3 enhancer slots at Lv50 (for a total of +6), then another +3 after unlocking Alpha, and having a final +3 available for purchase through the Paragon Market.

That's +9 enhancer slots for an Alpha'd Lv50 customer, enough to sate even the greatest dreams of Kheldian avarice!

I have to raise a tiny kitty eyebrow at the mention of phrases like "game-breaking", "overpowered", and "segregation", as these (again!) sound like they are being bandied-about with regard to PvP.

The addition of enhancer slots helps *everyone*, not just l33t d3wdz with t3h ph4t l3wtz! If the Devs do not take time from other projects in order to "up the ante" with regard to the new enhancers, then people will be able to continue playing through regular and Incarnate content, yet will simply have a few extra enhancers as a Quality of Life (QoL) bonus.

There have always been "haves" and "have nots" in all walks of life and gaming, but this feature (at least) is *not* divisive, but available to everyone who chooses to pursue it. It is not as though you have to get 150 people together for a raid on The Lair of the Chromatic Dragon Matriarch in your +90 Armour of L33tn3ss and with a +75 Sword of T3h Ph4tn3ss!
Quoted so that folks can read it without eyestrain.



 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amerikatt View Post
The addition of enhancer slots helps *everyone*, not just l33t d3wdz with t3h ph4t l3wtz!
Everyone...with points to spend on the Paragon Store. IE, pay to win. (For the record, I'm fine with an extra 3 slots at level 50, but nothing more than that.)

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yet will simply have a few extra enhancers as a Quality of Life (QoL) bonus.
I would generally not class things that alter game balance as Quality of Life changes.

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There have always been "haves" and "have nots" in all walks of life and gaming, but this feature (at least) is *not* divisive, but available to everyone who chooses to pursue it. It is not as though you have to get 150 people together for a raid on The Lair of the Chromatic Dragon Matriarch in your +90 Armour of L33tn3ss and with a +75 Sword of T3h Ph4tn3ss!
Your original idea was attached to the in-game store and hence had a real dollar value. That is divisive no matter how you cut it and regardless of how many free points VIPs get per month.


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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amerikatt View Post
Since I "obviously" do *not* "understand" why people consider my suggestion to be "game-breaking" and you are deriding me because I am asking for an explanation, perhaps *you* would be kind enough to explain it to me (rather than being dismissive
First, a question: Would it make the game boring for you if you could walk up to every spawn, click a single button, and have the whole spawn instantly defeated and get all the rewards for it?

If your answer is no, then you need to accept that there are a lot of people who don't want an 'I Win' button, and for whom being able to defeat enemies without any challenge is boring and unfun. You might not understand their pov, but you need to accept that they exist.

If your answer is yes, then with an I Win button you're looking at one extreme of the idea of 'game balance'. This exists just as much in PVE as PVP. When the devs create a new type of opponent, they have to balance its attacks and defenses so that it can pose an appropriate threat, and require an appropriate level of power to defeat. What they are balanced against is the combat power available to the players -- currently, a character of the appropriate level, with up to 96 slots and SOs.

(To see unbalanced mobs, you only have to go to AE. A lot of people load their new mob types with powers, because they sounds like cool abilities, and they end up hugely overpowered and not fun to fight.)

Now, what's appropriate?

For everyone out there playing the game, the optimal level of fun lies somewhere on a line between 'Everything I meet in the game can defeat me easily' and 'I can defeat everything I meet in the game easily'. Some people like the game play to be more challenging, some people like it to be less challenging. Some people love to be able to smash through +4x8 mobs, some people are happy to be risking defeat taking on +0x1.

I don't know if you're a big min-max player, but unlimited slots would very significantly increase the power of PCs. For a lot of people, the change you're proposing would make the game so much easier to play that it would be unfun. For some people, it would also diminish the fun of creating their builds in the first place, because they wouldn't have to try to get the maximum benefit out of the slots they have -- they could just buy more.

You might argue that it doesn't matter, because no one is being *forced* to buy the extra slots. However, they would be forced to play in an environment where other people could buy them and many probably would. The devs would likely have to increase the difficulty of the whole game, to match the new levels of power that players could reach. The people who aren't willing or able to spend the money would be left behind.

Does that help you see why balance is important in PVE, and why people think your idea is heavily damaging to game balance?


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All that needs to be said here is "never sell power." This remains true regardless of which game it doing it - selling power is the worst thing you can do to a game. Even the most soulless of Korean grindfest MMOs don't sell power. If you need to sell something, sell convenience. Easier transport, easier acquisition of rewards, easier recovery from losses and so forth. That way paying customers get there faster, but the NET TOTAL is always the same. A "Pay to Win" player won't be any stronger than a basic subscriber, he'll just be strong sooner.

This is unballancing, because the game is designed with the expectation that you'll have to decide what to slot and what to NOT slot. Slotting everything to 6 or 7 completely invalidates that entire system. Do you know what happened the last time an entire system was validated?

ED

Yup, that's right. The game was originally designed and balanced around the idea that SOs would be rare, so people would have to choose what to slot with SOs very carefully, and would therefore be using a few SOs, some DOs and mostly Trainings. That didn't work, and when people ended up slotting all of their slots with SOs, ED became inevitable. Game balance broke, enhancements tiers became pointless and something had to be done. ED was it. Years later, Inventions were the answer to enhancements that you couldn't just buy 90 of and slot all your powers.

In short, never say power, especially such that breaks core game systems.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucky666 View Post
so you know it happens but not in any channel you are part of so what your going on all heresy or what? I play on freedom the most populated power gamer speed server around and I have never NEVER saw anyone ask for such teammates for a TF/trial anything.
He's not. I have seen this. From "Must be +3 or healer" for itrials - and I don't mean MO runs - down to "Must be AT/powerset" (and the inverse of kicking "non-healer" defenders.)


 

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Just adding my two inf here as well: NO. Selling power is bad, period. I could get behind extra slots as a reward for a taskforce or whatever thing done ingame, maybe, but NOT in the store. It doesn't matter if I'd buy it or not, if one character is forever going to be stronger than another character simply because one player has money to spend and the other doesn't, the game may as well be dead already.


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Thanks, Grouchybeast and Samuel_Tow for explaining the situation to me (even if Sam *did* invoke the accursed name of ED!).

As I have gotten feedback on this suggestion, I have adjusted my suggestion to be more in the tone of "just a few more to give some breathing room (as for Khelds)."

Even Rebel_Scum's idea of extra enhancer slots as a one-time TF reward would be something I could grab on to with both paws!



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Posted

Thank you, Samuel, for explaining that better than I could ever have.

Sorry, Katt, for the outburst earlier. Game balance is a delicate thing, and selling power... yeah. Never a good idea. It turns the game into haves and have nots and there's already too many of those on the market.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by SkarmoryThePG View Post
Thank you, Samuel, for explaining that better than I could ever have.

Sorry, Katt, for the outburst earlier. Game balance is a delicate thing, and selling power... yeah. Never a good idea. It turns the game into haves and have nots and there's already too many of those on the market.
I think that selling power isn't a bad idea per se. It's knowing the balance.

Would selling the ability to have 3 more slots available to you at lvl 49 or 50, make that big of a difference between characters? No.

Would selling the ability to have 3 more slots avialable to you at lvl 49 or 50, make that big of a difference between players? No.

Would selling that ability to have 3 more slots available to you at lvl 49-50, mean you're characters have a bit more power? Of course! But not enough to really hamper anyone who ignored it. It's a bit of +enhancement to a power, and 3 additional set bonuses.

If they implemented it as a 5 dollar global unlock feature, then people wouldn't have to feel it's a waste of money for every character they want to min/max, and those who don't want to spend any money aren't really left out of anything.

Now, that's a bit different than what AK suggested, as buying just more slots repeatedly does make to extreme of a power difference between haves and have nots.

Point being, it's all in how it's implemented and how much they offer.

Offering 3 slots = nothing really changes.

Offering unlimited slots = OMG WTF!


BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection

 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrandX
Offering 3 slots = nothing really changes.
I would happily /sign this, Brandy! 3 more enhancer slots would still help me put a slot here and a slot there and maybe finish 6-slotting a power or adding a 4th slot to allow for a proc IO.

Do you think that NCSoft would accept fish-stix, shiny brass Nemmie buttons, and/or boxes of Mice-A-Roni as payment?



AMERIKATT: Star of Stage, Screen, and Saturday morning cartoons! (Art by Psygon and ChristopherRobin)
"(Katt-Girl) obviously reads a lot of encyclopedias" -- Kiken
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Posted

If it's (some) Khelds that need help, then fix Khelds (without breaking the rest of the game to do it).

I'm not sure they really do, however. (Need help, that is.) Between Inherent Fitness, IOs, and letting Stamina et al carry over to all forms, it's (IMO) tons easier now to play now than it used to be. Pity they're still so overshadowed by the genuinely epic Arachnos ATs.


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