Rise of the planet of the Apes
By
Aquila_NA,
Posted on: 2011-08-04 23:34 in Comic and Hero-Villain Culture
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Speaking of which, The Fast and the Furious was itself a remake of sorts.|
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
Another in a long line of Hollywood remakes because they can't find anything original to do. Thanks but I'll wait for it to be tossed in a super market bargain bin. I don't care how good it is.
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To be clear I never said I disliked the original Planet of the Apes series, even the time travel bits. I was just saying if you focus too much on the time travel parts of just about any sci-fi story it tends to fray at the seams. Clearly they fudged the premise well enough back in the 60s and 70s to stretch it out to 5 movies and a TV show so I'll give the original series the credit it's due. I'm just not going to beat myself up trying to "shoehorn" the latest couple of movies back into the continuity of the originals. I consider the last two movies (the 2001 one and the one out now) to be almost more "re-imaginings" instead of direct "remakes".
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Originally Posted by Ironik
The original PotA is just fun allegorical fantasy. It's about mistreating the planet and each other. I mean, it's silly on the face of it: astronauts travel thousands of years into the future to discover talking apes who happen to speak English (and have names that people have today).
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Originally Posted by Deacon_NA
If the only green-lit movies were "original ideas" then I'm guessing there would be next to 0 movies ever made in a year, not to mention 0 books, 0 records, 0 plays.
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Originally Posted by Xzero45
^ This.
Get over yourself. There's never really been original ideas. Everything's borrowed from, inspired by, a retelling of, or a continuation of something else. |
And I'm not complaining about making books and plays into movies. Just the remaking of films.
Instead of redoing films that have already been made how bout movies based on
The Guardians of the Flame
The Dresden Files
Hammers Slammers
War against the Chtorr
The Lensmen
Jack L Chalker's Dancing Gods
Chronicles of Amber
Xanth
The Belgariad
The Mallorean
The Wheel of Time
Discworld
The Man-Kzin Wars
The Berserker Wars
StarFist
Harry Harrison's Stars and Stripes alternate history
The Ellenium/Tamuli
Demontech novels
The Deryni Saga
Callahan's Bar
Battletech
There's thousands of stories that would make great movies/ series of movies.
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Well yeah, but the "be original" logic obviously only goes so far. When it comes to remaking movies, as with the retelling of any story in any form, shouldn't the main concerns be (1) whether or not it stands on its own and (2) whether or not it's good?
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Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
Nah, You can be the ones to get over yourselves. There's plenty of stories that would make great movies without having to remake or whatever POTA.
And I'm not complaining about making books and plays into movies. Just the remaking of films. Instead of redoing films that have already been made how bout movies based on The Guardians of the Flame The Dresden Files Hammers Slammers War against the Chtorr The Lensmen Jack L Chalker's Dancing Gods Chronicles of Amber Xanth The Belgariad The Mallorean The Wheel of Time Discworld The Man-Kzin Wars The Berserker Wars StarFist Harry Harrison's Stars and Stripes alternate history The Ellenium/Tamuli Demontech novels The Deryni Saga Callahan's Bar Battletech There's thousands of stories that would make great movies/ series of movies. |
- CaptainFoamerang
Silverspar on Kelly Hu: A face that could melt paint off the wall *shivers*
Someone play my AE arc! "The Heart of Statesman" ID: 343405
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Yeah you frequently have to divorce the TV show from the movie(s) when one wasn't originally intended to go hand in hand with the other.
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Originally Posted by Lothic
Bottomline it doesn't really bother me that newer movies like Rise of the Planet of the Apes may not strictly stick to an established timeline because that franchise is already a little loose with the facts to begin with. I'm not even going to try to explain the 1970s PotA TV show in with the rest of this.
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I wish I could believe that's what they were motivated by but I can't shake the feeling they prefer trying to milk a few more bucks out of an IP with an established fanbase than risk trying something new.|
Originally Posted by CaptainFoamerang
Well yeah, but the "be original" logic obviously only goes so far. When it comes to remaking movies, as with the retelling of any story in any form, shouldn't the main concerns be (1) whether or not it stands on its own and (2) whether or not it's good?
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Maybe I'm just getting old.
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Well go see it. It's good. |
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
I wish I could believe that's what they were motivated by but I can't shake the feeling they prefer trying to milk a few more bucks out of an IP with an established fanbase than risk trying something new.
Maybe I'm just getting old. |
- CaptainFoamerang
Silverspar on Kelly Hu: A face that could melt paint off the wall *shivers*
Someone play my AE arc! "The Heart of Statesman" ID: 343405
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No, physicists say it "may" go out the window. They don't know for certain what types of time travel actually work and whether or not the universe does it automatically or what...|
Originally Posted by Ironik
Taken all together, the PotA series has a lovely time travel story. What's even more interesting is that decades later physicists working on wormholes determined that they not only allowed for travel through space but also through time. And the really amazing thing was that the result of a lot of math I don't understand but they say works is that causality goes out the window.
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The type of time travel you are talking about that they are thinking of isn't really time travel, it's dimensional travel. When you go back in time you don't go back in time but rather go to another dimension that is identical to ho our dimension is and then when you kill your grandfather you don't effect your existence cuz that's not really your grandfather. The causality chain is not broken.
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That annoys me to no end... No other medium could ever get away with making a remake of something, let alone one of the greats... but movies, they can remake everything >.>
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Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
Nah, You can be the ones to get over yourselves. There's plenty of stories that would make great movies without having to remake or whatever POTA.
And I'm not complaining about making books and plays into movies. Just the remaking of films. |
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Oh don't worry I will see it eventually, I'm just not going to pay theatre prices. I'll wait for it on DvD.|
Originally Posted by CaptainFoamerang
Well go see it. It's good.
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A few years ago this probably wouldn't have bothered me because at that time I was living near a Drive-In Theatre that showed up to date movies. $5 bucks per adult, $3 bucks per kid for 2 movies.
After I moved it's just too damn far away to drive to see it. (60+miles)
Won't bother going to see it unless somebody who can seen it can truthfully answer yes to the following question.
Did they give a valid explanation for why there are apparently 10,000 or so apes in a single city? And was the situation the same the world over?
Because the only way the ape revolt could in any way work is if it was just like in the original movies. Virtually every family had one as a pet so they were literally everywhere.
Don't count your weasels before they pop dink!
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See my post above. But I'll reiterate. The story revolves more around Caesar's liberation than the apes taking over the planet, so the ape revolt depicted in this movie is limited to a couple hundred apes at most in one city. There is an explanation for how the apes eventually inherit the earth, but I won't spoil it here.
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Originally Posted by Mandu
Won't bother going to see it unless somebody who can seen it can truthfully answer yes to the following question.
Did they give a valid explanation for why there are apparently 10,000 or so apes in a single city? And was the situation the same the world over? Because the only way the ape revolt could in any way work is if it was just like in the original movies. Virtually every family had one as a pet so they were literally everywhere. |
- CaptainFoamerang
Silverspar on Kelly Hu: A face that could melt paint off the wall *shivers*
Someone play my AE arc! "The Heart of Statesman" ID: 343405
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An ape who's parents have been killed takes up the mantle of the bat and becomes Batape?
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Originally Posted by CaptainFoamerang
See my post above. But I'll reiterate. The story revolves more around Caesar's liberation than the apes taking over the planet, so the ape revolt depicted in this movie is limited to a couple hundred apes at most in one city. There is an explanation for how the apes eventually inherit the earth, but I won't spoil it here.
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Reasonable except for the fact that there are barely a couple hundred of any species of ape left on the planet let alone in a single city. |
Originally Posted by CaptainFoamerang
See my post above. But I'll reiterate. The story revolves more around Caesar's liberation than the apes taking over the planet, so the ape revolt depicted in this movie is limited to a couple hundred apes at most in one city. There is an explanation for how the apes eventually inherit the earth, but I won't spoil it here.
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I guess I just have difficulty accepting the concept because it's a simple fact. I can accept superhero, fantasy, and alien invasion films a lot more easily because there is absolutely zero knowledge of what is actually out there other than in our limited perception range. On the other hand the number of apes/gorillas/chimps/orangutans/etc is pretty well known and there aren't more than a handful of any of them in any city.
My feelings aren't the fault of the movie though. I just don't personally like that sort of playing with facts. If you liked it then for you it was a good movie and I won't try to argue you out of that. Trying to argue against somebody's personal opinion is folly and arrogance wrapped up in a great big batch of duh.
Don't count your weasels before they pop dink!
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Well the city was San Francisco, not sure if that helps. Don't know about how extensive their ape population is. |
Originally Posted by Mandu
Reasonable except for the fact that there are barely a couple hundred of any species of ape left on the planet let alone in a single city.
I guess I just have difficulty accepting the concept because it's a simple fact. I can accept superhero, fantasy, and alien invasion films a lot more easily because there is absolutely zero knowledge of what is actually out there other than in our limited perception range. On the other hand the number of apes/gorillas/chimps/orangutans/etc is pretty well known and there aren't more than a handful of any of them in any city. My feelings aren't the fault of the movie though. I just don't personally like that sort of playing with facts. If you liked it then for you it was a good movie and I won't try to argue you out of that. Trying to argue against somebody's personal opinion is folly and arrogance wrapped up in a great big batch of duh. |
But, there were more than just chimps involved. There were gorillas and orangutans and probably other variations that I didn't notice. And Caesar recruited not only from the zoo but the facility where they were being tested on, which was also in that area and was bringing in a lot of apes (undoubtedly from different places) for their testing.
*EDIT*
Oh, and I'm likely off on the "couple hundred" estimate. It looked like a lot in different shots and at the end not as much.
- CaptainFoamerang
Silverspar on Kelly Hu: A face that could melt paint off the wall *shivers*
Someone play my AE arc! "The Heart of Statesman" ID: 343405
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I agree. I just don't see how 200 apes can start a revolt against a population in the billions, when it starts in a country where we have tanks (those Apes arent going to tear through a tank) big guns, and the government would sooner fire bomb the city than let it happen.
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Originally Posted by Mandu
Reasonable except for the fact that there are barely a couple hundred of any species of ape left on the planet let alone in a single city.
I guess I just have difficulty accepting the concept because it's a simple fact. I can accept superhero, fantasy, and alien invasion films a lot more easily because there is absolutely zero knowledge of what is actually out there other than in our limited perception range. On the other hand the number of apes/gorillas/chimps/orangutans/etc is pretty well known and there aren't more than a handful of any of them in any city. My feelings aren't the fault of the movie though. I just don't personally like that sort of playing with facts. If you liked it then for you it was a good movie and I won't try to argue you out of that. Trying to argue against somebody's personal opinion is folly and arrogance wrapped up in a great big batch of duh. |
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Arg.|
Originally Posted by BrandX
I agree. I just don't see how 200 apes can start a revolt against a population in the billions, when it starts in a country where we have tanks (those Apes arent going to tear through a tank) big guns, and the government would sooner fire bomb the city than let it happen.
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Folks, if you want the spoilerific explanation then PM me, but don't let this aspect of the story alone deter you from seeing it.
- CaptainFoamerang
Silverspar on Kelly Hu: A face that could melt paint off the wall *shivers*
Someone play my AE arc! "The Heart of Statesman" ID: 343405
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Originally Posted by BrandX
I agree. I just don't see how 200 apes can start a revolt against a population in the billions, when it starts in a country where we have tanks (those Apes arent going to tear through a tank) big guns, and the government would sooner fire bomb the city than let it happen.
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But no one has any trouble believing that an Imperial Empire spanning millions of worlds, with a military of billions of personnel, and tens if not hundreds of millions of warships was overthrown by a few thousand Rebels with maybe 100 or so warships.
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Death stars are expensive and the Empire went broke after the Hutts lowered the Empire's credit rating to AA-plus. It got especially hard once everyone stopped buying Correllian gunships in favor of those Mon Cal cruisers.|
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
But no one has any trouble believing that an Imperial Empire spanning millions of worlds, with a military of billions of personnel, and tens if not hundreds of millions of warships was overthrown by a few thousand Rebels with maybe 100 or so warships.
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(oh right, back to this movie. no, frak this thing. im waiting for cable. sick of movies and their "RARGH! Hoo-mans eee-vil! making money eee-vil!" hollywood morality claptrap. go see Captain America again you dirty hippies!)
Good movie. Good Pay off. No plot holes.
Worst part of the movie is the over used line from the original that annoys the crap out of me. Do the people that write these things not realize the only reason it was ok for it to be in the original is because Heston said it?
Also rewatched the 2001 movie... I think it's a PANCAKEPANCAKEPANCAKEPANCAKE deal that everyone says t's so bad. Its not. It's actually fairly decent. The only real problem is the twist at the end... It doesn't work with time travel shenanigans... Also 10 years later I think everyone would have called it an Shyamalan ending. (which btw, recently watched A:tLAB and it's not bad either.. not as good as the cartoon, but not as bad as say... Green Lantern)
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Except that if you are planning on spending $100+ million dollars in making a movie, using source material that has a high percentage of recognition among the general population is one more positive factor in selling the idea to the money people. Especially if it's science fiction/fantasy since those movies do cost a lot to make (face it render farms aren't cheap).|
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
Nah, You can be the ones to get over yourselves. There's plenty of stories that would make great movies without having to remake or whatever POTA.
And I'm not complaining about making books and plays into movies. Just the remaking of films. Instead of redoing films that have already been made how bout movies based on The Guardians of the Flame The Dresden Files Hammers Slammers War against the Chtorr The Lensmen Jack L Chalker's Dancing Gods Chronicles of Amber Xanth The Belgariad The Mallorean The Wheel of Time Discworld The Man-Kzin Wars The Berserker Wars StarFist Harry Harrison's Stars and Stripes alternate history The Ellenium/Tamuli Demontech novels The Deryni Saga Callahan's Bar Battletech There's thousands of stories that would make great movies/ series of movies. |
It's one reason why remakes and sequels are way more prevalent than original ideas. You can be original, as long as it's relatively cheap to make.
Why do we keep getting <genre> Movie, those horrible Friedberg/Seltzer movie genre parody films? Because they are cheap and they make money in multiples of it's cost. Vampires Suck cost $20 million, made $80 million worldwide excluding DVD sales. So naturally they've been funded for their next parody film.
Now if someone can convince the money people that you can to the first book of any of those series affordably or convince them that it will be wildly successful but still cost $200 million to make then great. But that's not likely now is it?
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While I agree with the general notion of "original idea uber alles," the reality is some suit who makes the financial decisions wanted there to be another PotA movie in order to generate revenue so they can make original movies. Which they do, every year, but almost no one goes to those, so who's to blame, us or them?|
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
I wish I could believe that's what they were motivated by but I can't shake the feeling they prefer trying to milk a few more bucks out of an IP with an established fanbase than risk trying something new.
Maybe I'm just getting old. |
That said, if someone is given marching orders to refresh an existing property, you should at least be happy that they actually took the time to put forth a decent effort, which is what Rise of the Planet of the Apes is. The Burton remake was pure crap and everyone knows it. Rise however, is actually *good*. If we support it, then those filmmakers later get to try original ideas because that's how Hollywood works. "You made a ton of money for us, so here's a little something in return so you can make your vanity project."
As Bruce Willis once said about making yet another Die Hard flick in trade for getting to do In Country, "I make one of these for them, so I can I make this for me." Of course the studio hopes that the little side project will blow up huge and make them a ton of money, but really it's just a favor that they hope will make its money back.
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They didn't say "may." They said, "If these numbers are correct, wormholes are both space- and time-travel and causality is no longer a factor."|
Originally Posted by Durakken
No, physicists say it "may" go out the window. They don't know for certain what types of time travel actually work and whether or not the universe does it automatically or what...
The type of time travel you are talking about that they are thinking of isn't really time travel, it's dimensional travel. When you go back in time you don't go back in time but rather go to another dimension that is identical to ho our dimension is and then when you kill your grandfather you don't effect your existence cuz that's not really your grandfather. The causality chain is not broken. |
Of course we don't know if that's actually the case since no one's done it yet. But that's what the equations say to them. And no, they aren't saying it's dimensional travel (which means nothing, by the way -- you actually mean "travel between universes"). It's actual travel to a point in time before the present one in our universe. So you get to go back in time and kill Hitler in *our* universe.
Don't take my word for it, there are tons of new books that have been released on the topic. Whatever it is you're thinking of isn't coming from people like Thorne, Hawking, Greene, Gott and Kaku.
The Alt Alphabet ~ OPC: Other People's Characters ~ Terrific Screenshots of Cool ~ Superhero Fiction
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What a weird thing to say.|
Originally Posted by Durakken
That annoys me to no end... No other medium could ever get away with making a remake of something, let alone one of the greats... but movies, they can remake everything >.>
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TV shows are remade all the time. So are songs. Classical music is full of "variations on the theme of fill-in-the-blank". Even novels get remakes and sequels, including the classics. Justin Cronin's recent best-seller The Passage is nothing more than a remake of Stephen King's The Stand. Comic books -- and even comic book characters -- get remade constantly. Heck, Superman alone has had a new origin story just about every other year for the last 25 years.
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The Alt Alphabet ~ OPC: Other People's Characters ~ Terrific Screenshots of Cool ~ Superhero Fiction