Rise of the planet of the Apes
By
Aquila_NA,
Posted on: 2011-08-04 23:34 in Comic and Hero-Villain Culture
I saw this over the weekend after I got home from GenCon...
I was moderately looking forward to this movie, but had tentatively placed it on my 'must see in theater' list for the summer on principle only. I was intrigued about how they would tackle the content, but was reluctant due to no desire to have a 'reboot' or 're-imagining' of the origin classic - worried about the risk to a true favorite from my youth. After seeing this I am enthused about seeing one done at this level and with this technology.
I loved it.
I thought it was excellent in terms of fitting the PotA story. It gave respectful nods to its source, it avoided doing over-the-top things in terms of the 'how', and yet tied all the loose ends up neatly.
I also thought it was excellent in terms of just a film by itself. Likely the best I have seen all year. Yes, there seemed to be a couple of plot holes (I haven't read this thread to confirm my thoughts on those), but nothing drastic I thought. In terms of acting, I thought it was solid. Lithgow was excellent, Franco was solid if still himself, but they managed to give the apes distinct personalities and motivations that came across nicely. Well directed and paced I thought.
***perhaps some risk of minor spoilers***
(In perhaps an unintended twist, I had distinct flashes to '12 Monkeys' at a couple of points. Which I found interesting.)
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City of Heroes was my first MMO, & my favorite computer game.
R.I.P.
Chyll - Bydand - Violynce - Enyrgos - Rylle - Nephryte - Solyd - Fettyr - Hyposhock - Styrling - Beryllos - Rosyc
Horryd - Myriam - Dysquiet - Ghyr
Vanysh - Eldrytch
Inflyct - Mysron - Orphyn - Dysmay - Reapyr - - Wyldeman - Hydeous
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Now Automan I remember seeing. I remember he had a car that turned like the light cycles in Tron. Don't remember much more than that. Manimal tho is a blank. If I ever did see it it made no impression.
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Originally Posted by Shard_Warrior
I remember the TV show Manimal. I also remember Automan. Those two shows, much like the original BSG, are remembered by me personally as being cheesy and campy. I don't remember them for being what I would consider quality television.
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I know what you mean but I can pinpoint what it was for me. The very last scene when he's back on "his" earth and sees the Aperaham Lincoln memorial.|
Originally Posted by Lothic
You know strangely enough the only PotA movie to date I REALLY never liked was the 2001 remake. Yes the original series of movies are fairly dated now and of course the special effects are only as good as the late 60s/early 70s could provide. But for some reason the 2001 remake annoys me more than the campy silliness of the old movies.
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That totally changed the story from the original POTA time travel to alternate universe.
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| (FYI: I pretend BSG1980 doesn't exist). |
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Good call.|
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
I do the same with the second Highlander movie.
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Originally Posted by Veritech
(oh right, back to this movie. no, frak this thing. im waiting for cable. sick of movies and their "RARGH! Hoo-mans eee-vil! making money eee-vil!" hollywood morality claptrap. go see Captain America again you dirty hippies!)
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City of Heroes was my first MMO, & my favorite computer game.
R.I.P.
Chyll - Bydand - Violynce - Enyrgos - Rylle - Nephryte - Solyd - Fettyr - Hyposhock - Styrling - Beryllos - Rosyc
Horryd - Myriam - Dysquiet - Ghyr
Vanysh - Eldrytch
Inflyct - Mysron - Orphyn - Dysmay - Reapyr - - Wyldeman - Hydeous
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Yeah the twist Ape-America ending certainly didn't help. But the whole "research space station using ape pilots" premise seemed weird to me and some of the main casting/acting was just plain weak. Sure a few like Tim Roth and Helena Bonham Carter did alright but Mark Wahlberg and Estella Warren were downright lackluster. The irony with Estella is that she was completely upstaged by Linda Harrison's Nova (from the original PoTA) who basically didn't even say a word in that movie. |
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
I know what you mean but I can pinpoint what it was for me. The very last scene when he's back on "his" earth and sees the Aperaham Lincoln memorial.
That totally changed the story from the original POTA time travel to alternate universe. |
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I see where they could have gone with that... all bad, but it was memorable...whether that is a good thing or not is another question. It leaves the audience with a want to see what happens next, but since the next part never came it leaves you with an ick feel|
Originally Posted by Lothic
Yeah the twist Ape-America ending certainly didn't help. But the whole "research space station using ape pilots" premise seemed weird to me and some of the main casting/acting was just plain weak. Sure a few like Tim Roth and Helena Bonham Carter did alright but Mark Wahlberg and Estella Warren were downright lackluster. The irony with Estella is that she was completely upstaged by Linda Harrison's Nova (from the original PoTA) who basically didn't even say a word in that movie.
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Btw, has anyone heard a bad review of this movie?
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Yeah, I saw one that was not particularly favorable.|
Originally Posted by Durakken
Btw, has anyone heard a bad review of this movie?
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Can't re-find the link tho.
Still, looking.
edit:
Here is one that isn't crazy about it. Still can't find the one I remembered reading.
City of Heroes was my first MMO, & my favorite computer game.
R.I.P.
Chyll - Bydand - Violynce - Enyrgos - Rylle - Nephryte - Solyd - Fettyr - Hyposhock - Styrling - Beryllos - Rosyc
Horryd - Myriam - Dysquiet - Ghyr
Vanysh - Eldrytch
Inflyct - Mysron - Orphyn - Dysmay - Reapyr - - Wyldeman - Hydeous
Quote:
... That's guy's an idiot.|
Originally Posted by Chyll
Yeah, I saw one that was not particularly favorable.
Can't re-find the link tho. Still, looking. edit: Here is one that isn't crazy about it. Still can't find the one I remembered reading. |
All of his criticisms are answered in Movie Bob's review and the only criticism he truly has is "it's not the original" and of course it's not... it's a reimagining of the entire world and the starts with the 4th movie... the only real problem that this series will have is if it gets to the 3rd movie which would be kinda odd because it would require a time traveler which might be answered in the next film by a guy leaving Earth before any of this happens...or the 5th film which would need to the apes to go to the past at this current point in history.
It's still well within good story telling parameters even if they don't tell about those parts until the 3rd/5th movie... The 5th movie taking the more open loop time travel paradigm than the closed loop time travel one in the orginal.
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Originally Posted by Durakken
Btw, has anyone heard a bad review of this movie?
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Originally Posted by Chyll
Yeah, I saw one that was not particularly favorable.
Can't re-find the link tho. Still, looking. edit: Here is one that isn't crazy about it. Still can't find the one I remembered reading. |
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No argument. I think he had specific and well defined expectations that were not met, and let that shade his entire acceptance of the work.|
Originally Posted by Durakken
... That's guy's an idiot.
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Originally Posted by Lothic
Rottentomatoes.com currently has Rise of the Planet of the Apes rated at 81% with 129 favorable reviews against 30 unfavorable ones. I basically never rely on any one single review of a movie good or bad.
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City of Heroes was my first MMO, & my favorite computer game.
R.I.P.
Chyll - Bydand - Violynce - Enyrgos - Rylle - Nephryte - Solyd - Fettyr - Hyposhock - Styrling - Beryllos - Rosyc
Horryd - Myriam - Dysquiet - Ghyr
Vanysh - Eldrytch
Inflyct - Mysron - Orphyn - Dysmay - Reapyr - - Wyldeman - Hydeous
Quote:
I usually only read individual reviews for movies that score like either as good as 95% or as bad as 5%, and then I'm only interested in the minority reviews. I'm somewhat fascinated in what people have to say when they stand alone in the face of everyone else thinking the opposite of them. |
Originally Posted by Chyll
Likewise, and I love the aggregate move response sites accordingly. But, I also like to scan the longer, more involved reviews for expanded insight to the 'why' of their thoughts.
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It's a retcon. Not all retcons are bad.|
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
So you're trying to discourage me from seeing it by telling me it's a retcon from the classic storyline we all know and loved?
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If you're emotionally attached to the timeline of the classic 1970s movies, then yes, this film will disappoint you. 'Rise' is an updated Planet of the Apes movie, and it rises above the rest of the series. (It also rises above the crappy 2001 remake, fortunately.)
If you want to cling to your bellbottomed slacks, your disco ball and your 8-track tape player, then hey, I won't stop you.
But if you just like good movies you could do a lot worse than to see 'Rise'.
...
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Don't know if you're (general you, not specific) aware of this or not, but the ending of the 2001 remake was a nod to the ending of the Pierre Boulle novel that the whole franchise was based on. In the book
A) the planet of the apes (Soror) was a different world, but one that paralleled Earth's development, and
B) the "Taylor" character in the book returned to Earth to find that 700 years had passed and the humans on Earth had made the same mistakes as the humans on Soror, and apes had become the dominate species on Earth too.
Granted, the idea of two planets hundreds of light years apart developing identical intelligent lifeforms and experiencing similar historical events is pretty goofy these days, but in the context of the book it at least made more sense. The movie made it seem like some one had travelled to Earth's distant past and replaced humans with apes and it was more confusing than anything else.
(Sometimes, I wish there could be a Dev thumbs up button for quality posts, because you pretty much nailed it.) -- Ghost Falcon
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I think they should make a movie where Tarzan goes to the Planet of the Apes. That would be cool.
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Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
Meh remake, reboot, prequel I don't care what they call it. It's still not an original idea.
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So often, we want movies or TV to be just like the book we know and love, but it never is.
Should we remake movies in the exact image of the original? To what point? Okay, we like the premise of a movie but it has already been told to a conclusion. Do we keep ADDING to the timeline? How far in the future do we have to go before its no longer even related to the original story?
Books? We love our books, and for good reason. Books can tell an intricate story with multiple WELL-fleshed characters the way no other media can or ever will. Well, TV maybe COULD but ratings and network dollars being as tenuous as they are, no TV series can AFFORD to develop as fully as books.
The only way for a "remake/reboot/revisioning" or for a 90 minute telling of a story that took 500-2000 pages of print to "succeed" is to make it just as good as you possibly can and hope that enough people are willing to join you in the experience of your story based on its merits. Too often we judge that which is new against the old when we could ENJOY the new for what it IS and what it DOES offer.
As for "Rise", I have not yet had the pleasure of experiencing it. I will be seeing it and I will watch it in its own context, enjoying it for its own sake.
~ As an aside, I think that viewing chimps sympathetically, as the victim is a bit overdone. Especially as we learn more about what they are "really" like. The oppressed should always have our sympathy but it will(?) be based much less on the "cuteness" factor. On the other hand, are they (will they be) "Ramen", "Varelse", or "Djur"?
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I was aware that the 2001 PotA movie actually followed the original novel a bit more closely than the 1968 movie. But I think in this case the screenplay of the 1968 movie ultimately ended up being more entertaining as a movie. To see the 1968 movie simply updated with 2001 era special effects would have been much cooler. |
Originally Posted by mousedroid
Don't know if you're (general you, not specific) aware of this or not, but the ending of the 2001 remake was a nod to the ending of the Pierre Boulle novel that the whole franchise was based on.
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Did not know that... and actually that's not far fetched at all. Assuming a worm hole or anomaly of some sort sent the astronauts far enough, a world that follows the course of earth is 100% likely.|
Originally Posted by mousedroid
Don't know if you're (general you, not specific) aware of this or not, but the ending of the 2001 remake was a nod to the ending of the Pierre Boulle novel that the whole franchise was based on. In the book
A) the planet of the apes (Soror) was a different world, but one that paralleled Earth's development, and B) the "Taylor" character in the book returned to Earth to find that 700 years had passed and the humans on Earth had made the same mistakes as the humans on Soror, and apes had become the dominate species on Earth too. Granted, the idea of two planets hundreds of light years apart developing identical intelligent lifeforms and experiencing similar historical events is pretty goofy these days, but in the context of the book it at least made more sense. The movie made it seem like some one had travelled to Earth's distant past and replaced humans with apes and it was more confusing than anything else. |
I guess then if we dissect the scene at the end of PotA 2001 the problem isn't so much the ending so much as that General Thade was supposedly the equivalent to Abraham Lincoln some how when given all facts the it doesn't make any sense.
Also i've never quite liked the name... Earth is already the Planet of the Apes... Humans are Apes >.>
When I checked out the Pierre Boulle novel from the local library as a pre-teen, it became my first introduction to how novels and movies can end up being entirely different from each other. heh.
I recommend the novel, BTW. The final lines are nicely ironic and the novel itself is as much social satire as it is adventure. Just don't expect it to be a novelization of the screenplay. ;-)
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I'll never forget Gene Shalot reviewing Star Wars when it came out as a "nothing movie that would go nowhere".
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Originally Posted by Lothic
Rottentomatoes.com currently has Rise of the Planet of the Apes rated at 81% with 129 favorable reviews against 30 unfavorable ones. I basically never rely on any one single review of a movie good or bad.
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I never said retcons were all bad, just that I hate them. I also never said I wasn't willing to give this film a chance. What I actually said (several times now) is that I refuse to pay theatre prices to see it. |
Originally Posted by RemusShepherd
It's a retcon. Not all retcons are bad.
If you're emotionally attached to the timeline of the classic 1970s movies, then yes, this film will disappoint you. 'Rise' is an updated Planet of the Apes movie, and it rises above the rest of the series. (It also rises above the crappy 2001 remake, fortunately.) If you want to cling to your bellbottomed slacks, your disco ball and your 8-track tape player, then hey, I won't stop you. But if you just like good movies you could do a lot worse than to see 'Rise'. |
As far as I'm concerned I can wait until it's released on DvD.
Come to think of it, if I was a thief I could probably find a site on the internet where it could be downloaded for free, cuz I'm sure there are more than a few people that sneak camcorders into movies.
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I know this could derail the discussion of the current movie, but huh?|
Originally Posted by Durakken
Did not know that... and actually that's not far fetched at all. Assuming a worm hole or anomaly of some sort sent the astronauts far enough, a world that follows the course of earth is 100% likely.
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Maybe I didn't give enough facts. The astronauts in the novel travelled 350 light years in a near-lightspeed ship to a planet they named Soror. This planet was populated by intelligent apes who had subjegated human beings. Not human-like beings, human beings; the protagonist is able to mate and procreate with one of the Soror humans.
At the end of the novel, the astronaut, and I think his pregnant wife, hop back in the spaceship and high-tail it back to Earth. Due to it being a 700 light year round trip (thanks to time dialation they only age about two years each way), they arrive on Earth 700 years after the astronaut originally left to find that the humans on Earth have also been subjugated by intelligent apes.
There's no wormholes, and no time travel, just two planets 350 light years apart that are, for all intensive porpoises, identical. You can't tell me that scientifcally that is 100% likely.
(and yes, I know it's intents and purposes)
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porpoises?
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Still funny.
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Originally Posted by mousedroid
(and yes, I know it's intents and purposes)
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Just light speed travel, yeah not likely, but like I said, go far enough and that could be facilitated by any number of means, you could get a planet that is exactly the same as earth down to it's history and the people involved, but if it's just light travel to a close by planet then yeah that's not very likely at all, but that's why in those types of situations it's easy to use something more realistic for people that are sticklers for that type of thing.
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Originally Posted by mousedroid
I know this could derail the discussion of the current movie, but huh?
Maybe I didn't give enough facts. The astronauts in the novel travelled 350 light years in a near-lightspeed ship to a planet they named Soror. This planet was populated by intelligent apes who had subjegated human beings. Not human-like beings, human beings; the protagonist is able to mate and procreate with one of the Soror humans. At the end of the novel, the astronaut, and I think his pregnant wife, hop back in the spaceship and high-tail it back to Earth. Due to it being a 700 light year round trip (thanks to time dialation they only age about two years each way), they arrive on Earth 700 years after the astronaut originally left to find that the humans on Earth have also been subjugated by intelligent apes. There's no wormholes, and no time travel, just two planets 350 light years apart that are, for all intensive porpoises, identical. You can't tell me that scientifcally that is 100% likely. (and yes, I know it's intents and purposes) |
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Even if it were scientifically possible it's most likely that both the astronauts and the alien human population would infect each other with diseases from their respective home worlds and wipe each other out.|
Originally Posted by mousedroid
I know this could derail the discussion of the current movie, but huh?
Maybe I didn't give enough facts. The astronauts in the novel travelled 350 light years in a near-lightspeed ship to a planet they named Soror. This planet was populated by intelligent apes who had subjegated human beings. Not human-like beings, human beings; the protagonist is able to mate and procreate with one of the Soror humans. At the end of the novel, the astronaut, and I think his pregnant wife, hop back in the spaceship and high-tail it back to Earth. Due to it being a 700 light year round trip (thanks to time dialation they only age about two years each way), they arrive on Earth 700 years after the astronaut originally left to find that the humans on Earth have also been subjugated by intelligent apes. There's no wormholes, and no time travel, just two planets 350 light years apart that are, for all intensive porpoises, identical. You can't tell me that scientifcally that is 100% likely. (and yes, I know it's intents and purposes) |
Just like Columbus and the conquistadors did to the native americans when they went to America.
It's a shame the other films gave people such prejudice against this one. I thought this was a great film. I hope Serkis gets an Oscar; he deserves one.
So if this new movie at least channels any of the "mojo" of the original series that'd be fine with me.
Well despite the bad review you've just given it. (I hate retcons) I'm still going to wait until it's released on DvD and form my own opinion.
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