Underwhelmed by AT specific IOs
By
Aura_Familia,
Posted on: 2011-07-29 21:41 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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Sure. But you can't stack 5 different 8.75%s the way you can stack 5 different 5%s, because these are the only sets that have an 8.75% bonus, and you can't slot more than one of a single set, and you only get to have one set, depending on AT.
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Originally Posted by Lycanus
they were asking if they could have an 8.75% stack with a 5%....which you can do
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only when you build to that...in which case, these sets are nothing special.|
Originally Posted by MajorDecoy
I'm sorry, but you're flat out wrong about that. Smashing and Lethal typed attacks are still the most common in the game. And when building to the soft cap, even 1.25% set bonuses are useful, just look how many builds use Reactive armour.
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| If you have a lot of resist, but you're not at the cap, every little bit makes a huge difference. A person with 88% resistance is taking about 20% more damage than a person with 90% resistance. And Smashing/Lethal resistance is actually one of the harder bonuses to come by. |
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| I've actually heard a lot of people complain that accuracy bonuses aren't useful because most people already slot for accuracy and once you're at 95% to-hit, it's not helping you any. |
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| Kinetic Combat is not popular because it fills a hole in Smashing/Lethal defense. I mean, take a look at all the Invulnerability tanks that use Kinetic Combat. We don't use it because we're weak to Smashing/Lethal damage. We use it because 1) More defense doesn't hurt (unless you're already at 59% defense) and 2) it provides protection to attacks like Fire Sword (because we don't have a lot of fire resistance). |
and resists at 88% s/l, 30.6% fire/cold, 30.2% en/neg and 29.3% toxic with 3% psi
regen at 227%, end recovery at 150%, max end at 109%, max hp at 106.8%
all that before taking into account buffs, incarnates and accolades
These AT specific sets aren't really any better than the normal sets...if something's going to be limited to the specific ATs I'd expect more benefit than something I can get already with good planning
Thrythlind's Deviant Art Page
"Notice at the end, there: Arcanaville did the math and KICKED IT INTO EXISTENCE." - Ironik on the power of Arcanaville's math
... How is that possibly the best Invulnerability build you've seen? Do you go out of your way to avoid looking at Invulnerability builds?
And yes, a set that provides both a defense bonus and a recharge bonus is something special. There is no other melee set that does that.
As to your numbers, yes, that is exactly how 20% works. If one person is taking 100 damage and the other person is taking 120 damage, the second person is taking 20% more damage than the first person.
But I don't see why limiting the sets to specific ATs should make them any better than normal sets. I mean, yes, they're as good as (or better than) most rare sets already. They aren't as good as purples, but (again) I don't think they should be.
how isn't it a good build?
S/L 2.016% of damage gets through
F/C 3.47% of damage
E/N 3.49% of damage
and the weird damage:
Toxic(Melee) 24.745% of damage
Toxic(Ranged) 17.8871% of damage
Toxic(AoE) 20.0788% of damage
Psychic (Melee) 33.368% of damage
Psychic (Ranged) 24.541% of damage
Psychic (AoE) 27.548% of damage
And this doesn't take into account the stacking -tohit from the dark melee, siphon life's heal, dull pain, unstoppable, having more than one opponent or incarnates and accolades
it's an immensely survivable set that I've seen dive into invuln-unfriendly territory without a problem
Thrythlind's Deviant Art Page
"Notice at the end, there: Arcanaville did the math and KICKED IT INTO EXISTENCE." - Ironik on the power of Arcanaville's math
I'm not saying that it's a bad build. I'm saying that it's not remotely the most survivable Invulnerability build I've seen.
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Because 2% of S/L damage getting through is too much! I'd much rather trade away some F/C to get the S/L way higher. There is no reason in the world to not cap your S/L defense once you start building for high end play.
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Originally Posted by Lycanus
how isn't it a good build?
S/L 2.016% of damage gets through F/C 3.47% of damage E/N 3.49% of damage and the weird damage: Toxic(Melee) 24.745% of damage Toxic(Ranged) 17.8871% of damage Toxic(AoE) 20.0788% of damage Psychic (Melee) 33.368% of damage Psychic (Ranged) 24.541% of damage Psychic (AoE) 27.548% of damage And this doesn't take into account the stacking -tohit from the dark melee, siphon life's heal, dull pain, unstoppable, having more than one opponent or incarnates and accolades |
Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
My Dom would kill to replace one of his 6.25 recharge bonuses with a set that has 8.75 recharge, AND accuracy, AND 3% ranged Def.
I'm not sure what color sparkles you were looking for on your unicorn, but this one is just fine by me thanks.
"Null is as much an argument "for removing the cottage rule" as the moon being round is for buying tennis shoes." -Memphis Bill
Yeah these set bonuses are absolutely amazing.
I build for Defense then Recharge or sometimes Recharge then Defense, I'm not sure what else you would bother taking set bonuses for...
One that has significant bonuses for both recharge and defense and also hands out the best S&L resist set bonus in the game? I'm not sure what people are expecting out of these but the Brute one at least, is an incredible, incredible set.
Hoenstly, I think they are way too powerful if they can only be attained with real money. If that is the only way to get them they need to be equal or weaker than sets we can alreday use. Pay to win sucks.
Have to take them out and test drive them, but some of these look promising, and as usual, an equal number of WTFs this supposed to be? We'll see how they do. I'm assuming that this is going to come with a total overhaul of the IO's currently in place, of course, or what's the point?
Stand UP.
FIGHT BACK!
They seem fair to me, I' definitely use the Corruptor one.
Though the Tanker one seems kind of.. lacking.. I'd personally rather they increased the HP bonus to something a bit less common/more substantial, say 2.25% and squeezed in some S/L defense in there, maybe instead of the damage bonus?
(Though that chance for +Res to All proc might be very powerful in an AoE)
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the recharge is nice, but for things with the Unique tag, I'd like to see something more.|
Originally Posted by Lemur Lad
My Dom would kill to replace one of his 6.25 recharge bonuses with a set that has 8.75 recharge, AND accuracy, AND 3% ranged Def.
I'm not sure what color sparkles you were looking for on your unicorn, but this one is just fine by me thanks. |
I'm not saying the double digits we see in purples, but I would like to see BrandX's +3% defense across the board...or the 2-3 mez protection she also suggested
I'd also like to see "chance fors" exchanged for passive constants
instead of "chance for Res(all)" just make it give Res(all)
instead of "Chance for Neg energy damage" make Corruptor scourge kick in at 60 or 70% health instead of 50%
instead of "Chance for fire damage" make Blaster defiance pops last longer so you can build up higher bonuses
instead of "chance for psychic damage" give the corruptors a higher chance for getting overpower
give scrappers a high chance to deal criticals
and so on...
would like brute's bonuses more like this, +1.75% health, +3% Def(all), +8.75% rech, +4% recovery, +8% acc
and tankers more like this +2% Health, +3% def(all), +3% res(all), +9% Regen, +4% recovery
reasoning for the odd numbers, so that these don't mess with any 5-stack plans and always add on top
I'd like to see the range bonus at +10%, and for the corruptor to have the Acc bonus fit in somewhere...
something that stands out rather than just being a meh set that I'd possibly slot if it dropped...but wouldn't go looking for
Thrythlind's Deviant Art Page
"Notice at the end, there: Arcanaville did the math and KICKED IT INTO EXISTENCE." - Ironik on the power of Arcanaville's math
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Originally Posted by Lycanus
instead of "chance for Res(all)" just make it give Res(all) instead of "Chance for Neg energy damage" make Corruptor scourge kick in at 60 or 70% health instead of 50% instead of "Chance for fire damage" make Blaster defiance pops last longer so you can build up higher bonuses instead of "chance for psychic damage" give the corruptors a higher chance for getting overpower give scrappers a high chance to deal criticals and so on... |
So the IO sets would increase the capabilities of the their various AT's Inherents? I do like that idea, a lot.
Though Tanker's and Defender's would need something a bit different, the +res works fine for Tankers. Defenders could get, +special maybe? kind of a mini Powerboost effect.
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Which control set gives 6.25% recharge that you would replace? Edit: I should say which control power would you slot this in and which set would you replace?
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Originally Posted by Lemur Lad
My Dom would kill to replace one of his 6.25 recharge bonuses with a set that has 8.75 recharge, AND accuracy, AND 3% ranged Def.
I'm not sure what color sparkles you were looking for on your unicorn, but this one is just fine by me thanks. |
Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
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yeah, they had the right idea with the brutes...assuming "fury bonus" works the way I'm thinking...something tailored for the AT, not just the same procs and rather average set bonuses...
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Originally Posted by Primantiss
So the IO sets would increase the capabilities of the their various AT's Inherents? I do like that idea, a lot.
Though Tanker's and Defender's would need something a bit different, the +res works fine for Tankers. Defenders could get, +special maybe? kind of a mini Powerboost effect. |
Thrythlind's Deviant Art Page
"Notice at the end, there: Arcanaville did the math and KICKED IT INTO EXISTENCE." - Ironik on the power of Arcanaville's math
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at 4:30am my addled brain was thinking I could put it in an attack power.|
Originally Posted by StratoNexus
Which control set gives 6.25% recharge that you would replace? Edit: I should say which control power would you slot this in and which set would you replace?
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now at 10am after a few hours sleep I know that's silly, however right now my best built Dom has Ragnarok 5 slotted in Carrion Vines, with a Trap of the Hunter proc. That works great as far as it goes, but with this set I'd drop it in there, and move the Ragnarok to replace the Posi's Blast I have in Fireball or Rain of Fire.
It ends up being a triple win for me. I pick up added Global Rech, Acc, and Ranged Defense at the high end. The damage power ends up being more efficient, and upping my overall DPS. And I get more set bonuses that travel with me when I exemplar down.
That's on my main dom. All the others in the process of leveling, it's obvious gravy.
"Null is as much an argument "for removing the cottage rule" as the moon being round is for buying tennis shoes." -Memphis Bill
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Originally Posted by StratoNexus
Which control set gives 6.25% recharge that you would replace? Edit: I should say which control power would you slot this in and which set would you replace?
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Mind Control/Mass Confusion: 6-slotted with Malaise's (the purple set is in Confuse).
Even:
Damage bonus (2.5%)
Defense bonus (3.13% R/1.565% E/NE)
Gain:
Recharge (8.75 - 6.25 = 2.5%)
Accuracy (9%)
Confuse (3% - 2.5% = 0.5%)
Status Duration (other stuff in addition to confuse)
edit: and the Chance for +DMG, too.
Lose:
Recovery (2.5%)
I'll be making that swap. That's a win for me.
If they're store-only, it makes sense to make them fairly average rather than really good - to avoid the "some of the best items in the game are only available in the ingame store" effect.
I'd say they're aiming for those players who really can't be bothered putting together an IO build but don't want to be underperforming. Once the player is sure they want to keep a character they can drop a bunch of Paragon Points on a set of IOs, and then never have to worry about slotting again while being sure their character is reasonably efficient. They've skipped some boring fiddle work, Paragon gets more money, everybody's happy.
Character index
Well, I'll swapping replacing a Hecatomb Set with those Brute IOs on my SS/WP Brute. The recharge is almost as good. That 2.5 s/l defense will softcap me. That bonus to Health will boost my Regeneration. And that Fury bonus; not sure how big a bonus it is, but any increase in Fury generation is nothing but good.
I'd like to keep those Hecatombs, but all my other attacks have Kinetic Combats; sadly, no room. My Tanker will get them I guess...
These look pretty nice to me!
Of course, I generally 'complete' my build at 40 or so, since I don't play many characters in the highest levels.
Thanks for posting the peek! It's good to see interesting new loot.
Statesmonkey Sez: Lighten up! It's a game, for Lincoln's sake!
Also: Six years of casual play begins to look an awful lot like one year of hardcore play.
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Honestly, if the development team can introduce a whole store full of stuff and NOT put in a bunch of things that let those who buy them outclass those who don't BY FAR, I will be incredibly impressed and file to have my fanboy club membership card reissued.|
Originally Posted by Silver Gale
If they're store-only, it makes sense to make them fairly average rather than really good - to avoid the "some of the best items in the game are only available in the ingame store" effect.
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And, yes, I do mean that.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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I disagree with your analysis of the comparative worth of set bonuses. +HP/Regen are not worth more to your survivability than defence/resistance; increasing the duration of all controls on a character that's primary purpose is control is not worthless. The only item I do agree on is the relative worthlessness of a damage bonus in a set not only locked to Brutes, but that explicitly recognises the AT has Fury.
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Yeah, the 3% Ranged defense is awesome! If you play at range.|
Originally Posted by Lemur Lad
My Dom would kill to replace one of his 6.25 recharge bonuses with a set that has 8.75 recharge, AND accuracy, AND 3% ranged Def.
I'm not sure what color sparkles you were looking for on your unicorn, but this one is just fine by me thanks. |
My Dom is a Fire/Earth, melee defense or S/L defense would be better. Hence the reason I suggest 3% Defense vs 3.75% Ranged Defense in these sets.
Same goes for my Dual Pistol users who get into melee often, because of well, Hail of Bullets.
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
anyone klnow the proc %?
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They are listing these Procs in a new way. They are listed as roughly X number of times Per Minute. Some are 3 per minute, some are 4 per minute.|
Originally Posted by Hex0000
anyone klnow the proc %?
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We'll have to get more detail before seeing if someone can break that down into a % per attack.
Except for the Fury bonus, which is just Extra Fury generated per attack.
Kinetic Combat is not popular because it fills a hole in Smashing/Lethal defense. I mean, take a look at all the Invulnerability tanks that use Kinetic Combat. We don't use it because we're weak to Smashing/Lethal damage. We use it because 1) More defense doesn't hurt (unless you're already at 59% defense) and 2) it provides protection to attacks like Fire Sword (because we don't have a lot of fire resistance).