So, those coming Pool Power changes...
By
Amy_Amp,
Posted on: 2011-07-28 14:29 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
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Absurd. You're saying you keep everyone alive, all the time? With your Fire/Fire Scrapper?|
Originally Posted by JayboH
No, you are not - why are you playing in such a way that you can't keep your teammates alive?
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lol, k
I've taken Vengeance on several of my characters because the two following statements are always true.
1. Vengeance is a very powerful buff.
2. **** happens.
I've got Vengeance on my Empath, my character who is arguably most responsible for keeping people alive. Know why? The above reasons. Sometimes people die and there's nothing you can do about it. At which point the most you can do is give yourself and the rest of the team a huge buff which can help prevent someone else dying.
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I, uh... A friend of mine, yeah, sometimes has even been known to fight near teammates that he suspects are on their way to debtsville shortly in order to hop past and venge before running off to do some damage in the next two minutes. The Destroy Shadow Cysts mission in particular is a real vengeance gold mine for my friend. Who is not me.
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Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle
I, uh... A friend of mine, yeah, sometimes has even been known to fight near teammates that he suspects are on their way to debtsville shortly in order to hop past and venge before running off to do some damage in the next two minutes. The Destroy Shadow Cysts mission in particular is a real vengeance gold mine for my friend. Who is not me.
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Your friend doesn't happen to be you by any chance, right?
Certainly not. This friend plays characters whose only team buffs are leadership toggles and vengeance. How antisocial!
I'll readily admit to playing my dashing and courteous DP/EM blaster, however, who had room for both vengeance and resuscitate. Nothing says "Damn I'm good" quite like venging a fallen comrade, reviving them in the middle of a bunch of angry ruffians ineffectually trying to prevent your daring rescue, and then running off for a hundred and ten more seconds of unimpeded silliness.
Recall friend, fallout, vengence, and mutation is a perfectly acceptable backup attack chain.
I'll have to agree with some other suggestions to just level lock the tier 4s. I know I don't want to take powers such as Stealth or Invis, just to get Phase Shift on my character who has a stealth power in their Pirmary and/or Secondary.
Though I have a question, does this carry over to the Epic Power Pools as well? I know I'd like to beable to grab Epic Shields for Defenders/Corrs at lvl 41 instead of needing to grab a tier 1 first.
Not to mention straight to Laser Beam Eyes on some concepts. Skip FA/CP on some scrappers, and for some Scrappers I'd much rather pick up Fire Blast, Melt Armor and Fire Ball and just skip the immobilize and hold (Melt Armor may be terrible for Scraappers, but it's just way more flashy than Char).
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I don't think Kick and Boxing are that bad, certainly I've found a use for kick on my invul / SS tankers.
Kick them, watch them going flying, follow it up with some hurl for that extra crunchiness.
Boxing on a MA scrapper is good too, nice to have an additional punch that is actually better than brawl.
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So take Air Superiority. |
Originally Posted by BigBoss Eyepatch
Boxing on a MA scrapper is good too, nice to have an additional punch that is actually better than brawl.
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Boxing/Kick are useful in the early levels if you don't have a full attack chain and at higher levels as mules, between that and the Weave prerequisites I cant see my use of the fighting pool being affected beyond the order in which the powers are taken. Aid Self/Aid Other is going to cause a fair few changes, but less than before Rebirth replaced it on half my characters. Hopefully I'll be able to fit Pounce (or whatever the attack in super jump is called) in in its place.
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Mitch Hedberg reference, you rock.
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Originally Posted by SinisterDirge
I used to use boxing as a set mule. I still do, but I used to too.
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"PvP Messiah"
No, see, he is playing in such a way that he is soloing and doesn't seem to care if he gets his teammates killed.
He blames their build instead of his thoughtlessness.
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Just lay off the guy already -_-
Anyhow, awesome changes.
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My static team standard attitude: If anybody on the team dies, then things were done wrong.|
Originally Posted by TwoHeadedBoy
I've never before encountered the attitude of "If you use vengeance a lot you're not doing it right."
Shouldn't it be more like "If people use Vengeance on YOU a lot, you're not doing it right?" |
Fallout and Vengeance are powers I've never seen taken by anybody I play with for the past 7 years. And none of us have ever thought about taking them...in fact I believe our shared response to such powers was "a power that requires a teammate to die to use without actually resurrecting the teammate? why?"
resurrect and mutations are fine, they correct the mistake....
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"Notice at the end, there: Arcanaville did the math and KICKED IT INTO EXISTENCE." - Ironik on the power of Arcanaville's math
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Have you ever seen what a team of all Rads can do on a map by continuously using Veng bait and fallout? If you dismiss deaths as being part of the equation that equals success and replace it with time alone then you can begin to understand why those two powers can be substantially useful. It's almost like cheating when you use the powers the game has given you to full effect.|
Originally Posted by Lycanus
My static team standard attitude: If anybody on the team dies, then things were done wrong.
Fallout and Vengeance are powers I've never seen taken by anybody I play with for the past 7 years. And none of us have ever thought about taking them...in fact I believe our shared response to such powers was "a power that requires a teammate to die to use without actually resurrecting the teammate? why?" resurrect and mutations are fine, they correct the mistake.... |
A team consistently using Fallout on every mob intentionally is something smart to do, not something to be ashamed of. If you are trying not to die, then yes I can see why you'd be upset with yourself, but honestly you should shrug off that bad ideology and replace it with what actually works based on game mechanics. You are actually helping the team complete the objective faster and have become a huge force multiplier by allowing them to use Vengeance on you. Intentionally dying is fun.
"PvP Messiah"
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You folks are not generating enough awesome.
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Originally Posted by Lycanus
My static team standard attitude: If anybody on the team dies, then things were done wrong.
Fallout and Vengeance are powers I've never seen taken by anybody I play with for the past 7 years. And none of us have ever thought about taking them...in fact I believe our shared response to such powers was "a power that requires a teammate to die to use without actually resurrecting the teammate? why?" resurrect and mutations are fine, they correct the mistake.... |
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<A line of heroes and villains stands squared off and glaring at each other>|
Originally Posted by Cold_X
Have you ever seen what a team of all Rads can do on a map by continuously using Veng bait and fallout?
<snip> Intentionally dying is fun. |
<Suddenly a hero whips out a knife, stabs the hero next to him and throws the body at the feet of the villains>
Villain: "What the-"
Hero: "Vengeance! Vengeance for our fallen comrade!"
Villain: "Hey, wait, we-"
Hero: "Come on! You all saw them kill him in cold blood!"
Villain: "This is ridicu-"
<Heroes attack!>
Arc #40529 : The Furies of the Earth
Quote:
Last night my blaster changed his battle cry for the first time since I19.|
Originally Posted by Cold_X
Have you ever seen what a team of all Rads can do on a map by continuously using Veng bait and fallout? If you dismiss deaths as being part of the equation that equals success and replace it with time alone then you can begin to understand why those two powers can be substantially useful. It's almost like cheating when you use the powers the game has given you to full effect.
A team consistently using Fallout on every mob intentionally is something smart to do, not something to be ashamed of. If you are trying not to die, then yes I can see why you'd be upset with yourself, but honestly you should shrug off that bad ideology and replace it with what actually works based on game mechanics. You are actually helping the team complete the objective faster and have become a huge force multiplier by allowing them to use Vengeance on you. Intentionally dying is fun. |
Old Battle Cry: "Shard Get!" (lawl shards)
New Battle Cry: "[Vengeance] plz!"
I just hate it when they waste mutation on me when I've got RoTP.
Deamus the Fallen - 50 DM/EA Brute - Lib
Dragos Bahtiam - 50 Fire/Ice Blaster - Lib
/facepalm - Apply Directly to the Forehead!
Formally Dragos_Bahtiam - Abbreviate to DSL - Warning, may contain sarcasm
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Originally Posted by Shubbie
Im very good at taking a problem and making it worse.
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Hahaha, oh god, I'm laughing way too hard at that!
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Originally Posted by Obscure Blade
<A line of heroes and villains stands squared off and glaring at each other>
<Suddenly a hero whips out a knife, stabs the hero next to him and throws the body at the feet of the villains> Villain: "What the-" Hero: "Vengeance! Vengeance for our fallen comrade!" Villain: "Hey, wait, we-" Hero: "Come on! You all saw them kill him in cold blood!" Villain: "This is ridicu-" <Heroes attack!> |
-STEELE =)
Allied to all sides so that no matter what, I'll come out on top!
Oh, and Crimson demands you play this arc-> Twisted Knives (MA Arc #397769)
Quote:
Resurrect and Mutation fix a mistake. Vengeance gives you two minutes of preventing further mistakes. And you know what they say about an ounce of prevention...
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Originally Posted by Lycanus
My static team standard attitude: If anybody on the team dies, then things were done wrong.
Fallout and Vengeance are powers I've never seen taken by anybody I play with for the past 7 years. And none of us have ever thought about taking them...in fact I believe our shared response to such powers was "a power that requires a teammate to die to use without actually resurrecting the teammate? why?" resurrect and mutations are fine, they correct the mistake.... |
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So the death is getting scratched by a rusty nail - Vengeance is a massive dose of tetanus?
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Originally Posted by ketch
Resurrect and Mutation fix a mistake. Vengeance gives you two minutes of preventing further mistakes. And you know what they say about an ounce of prevention...
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Deamus the Fallen - 50 DM/EA Brute - Lib
Dragos Bahtiam - 50 Fire/Ice Blaster - Lib
/facepalm - Apply Directly to the Forehead!
Formally Dragos_Bahtiam - Abbreviate to DSL - Warning, may contain sarcasm
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Shubbie
Im very good at taking a problem and making it worse.
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Quote:
You see...with us...time is inconsequential...you can always set aside the TF to complete later
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Originally Posted by Cold_X
If you dismiss deaths as being part of the equation that equals success and replace it with time alone .
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Thrythlind's Deviant Art Page
"Notice at the end, there: Arcanaville did the math and KICKED IT INTO EXISTENCE." - Ironik on the power of Arcanaville's math
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Er, are you kidding? If anyone dies on a team that you're on, the death is your fault? Is that true for everyone on the team or only for the designated death blame taker?|
Originally Posted by JayboH
No, see, he is playing in such a way that he is soloing and doesn't seem to care if he gets his teammates killed.
He blames their build instead of his thoughtlessness. |
Followup question, do you ever pug? If you do, surely you have noticed that occasionally there is very little you can do about someone getting splatted by an ambush, a couple bosses, a blue patch, an av aoe, a glowie explosion, a tree blast, an Unwanted Multi-Second Aggro Overexposure (or UMSAO), a flier attack, a famine fearlock BS death, a... I could really keep going here, but let's not.
To answer your question, no, I don't care if my teammates get killed. I also don't care if I get killed. I have the tools available to deal with this eventuality and in many cases it speeds things up.
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yes, but it's not worth a place on my build for a situation that doesn't occur all that often|
Originally Posted by ketch
Resurrect and Mutation fix a mistake. Vengeance gives you two minutes of preventing further mistakes. And you know what they say about an ounce of prevention...
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unless someone screws up
Thrythlind's Deviant Art Page
"Notice at the end, there: Arcanaville did the math and KICKED IT INTO EXISTENCE." - Ironik on the power of Arcanaville's math
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Lycanus
You see...with us...time is inconsequential...you can always set aside the TF to complete later
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There is a LONG line of game developers that thought that your ... kind ... was the most common one. Not just ones that worked on this game either.
The reality is that the "I want every thing now/I want to accomplish something tonight." Crowd are FAR more common. People find death FUN in this game. It is quite possibly one of our best features.
There are two kinds of relaxed people. The ones that would rather take things slow and steady and for a reward later. <this is you
And the ones that would rather push the envalope and exceed their limits for a glorious team wipe, and then spend 5min dead while chating about how absoulty bad *** they looked when doing it.
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"Hypocrisy, the human inherent." "Let not this work be wasted, apply yourself always."
Perhaps it's time that the Vet badge that allows travel powers without a prerequisite should be changed to affect all pool powers, yes Patron and Ancillary also.
Because I'm not a tank.
Sure, if I wanted to, I COULD act like one.
But I don't want to. So I don't.