Manticore & Sister Psyche Resurrected


Aggelakis

 

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Originally Posted by Golden Girl View Post
That's because he's in the cut cutscene - he goes to confront Tyrant, but is defeated - but it was dropped before the TF went live.
I wonder if there's a way to view this cutscene... and I wonder why it was dropped.

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Originally Posted by _Synchrotron_ View Post
Here's an evil idea; In Going Rogue we have missions where the decisions we make govern which contact disappears from the world for our character. What if they use that tech in the signature arc?

"Very well, <Player>, you can save Manticore, or you can save Sister Psyche. One will die, and you will choose. But know that I, Protean, will be victorious no matter how you choose. Of course, if you fail to choose swiftly, both will die. Bwahahahaa...."

Not that they'd be that evil...
While this is good for the player. For the overall story of CoH, I think you'd have players then going "Wait what?! I saved them!"

Meaning, yes they gave the player a choice, but in the end they may think it's pointless as their choice didn't matter, and thus they'll complain and complain.

Kinda like the 1 on 1 fighting games. Yeah, you can win with any character, but when the next game comes out you'll see who actually won as the storyline continues.


BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection

 

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Wow, some really good points and theories here...

The more I think about it, the more I don't think it's going to be Back Alley Brawler. I was originally thinking that BaBs would be the one to die, but now it seems like there are so many clues pointing to him that it's too obvious.

Synapse is high on my list of possibilities. Yes, he's still being used as a character by a dev here currently, but War Witch the dev is still alive and well (and awesome) despite her in-game character being corporeally challenged at the moment (BrandX already pointed this out two pages back, but I felt it worth mentioning again). Synapse has a task force that could really stand some revamping. He has a dev still at Paragon who could sign off on such a character change without seeming ghoulish by targeting a character whose dev counterpart is long-since-departed. And finally, well, he IS a blaster. Setting off a spectacular nuke in the middle of a huge mob despite the high risk of death is sort of what we blasters live for at higher levels.

Truly, an argument can be made both for and against ANY of the Phalanxers going down. It's also very likely that even the devs haven't made a hard-and-fast decision about which one will die at this point, if any of them do indeed die--I immediately noticed that little "could" in the ad as well. It'd be a bit of a cop-out at this point, though, and I don't think our current devs would resort to that.

All this speculation leads me to another question I've had rattling around for a while: if one of the Phalanxers dies or retires, would his/her sidekick be promoted from the "sidekick" Vindicators into the "big league" Freedom Phalanx and thus take over as the task force contact? The vibe I got from the comics is that most (if not all) of the Vindicators are quite content with their team as it as, and anyone moving from the Vindies to the Phalanx would probably NOT be by her/his choice.

K


 

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Originally Posted by SilverAgeFan View Post
Like the CoT, need to be careful with these revamps. The constipated look is one of State's signatures. Without it, he's just not States.
He's been such a tight-<bleep> since he became a hero that he hasn't taken a dump in over 80 years. Super strength and invulnerability can come with a terrible price.


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Originally Posted by Blue Rabbit View Post
Yes, and while everyone is focused on who is dying, the text on the e-mail being sent out says "could die". Emphasis on the could part. I doubt anyone will actually die, but hey, that's jaded old me.
I caught that too, and thought the same thing.


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Originally Posted by Kurrent View Post
All this speculation leads me to another question I've had rattling around for a while: if one of the Phalanxers dies or retires, would his/her sidekick be promoted from the "sidekick" Vindicators into the "big league" Freedom Phalanx and thus take over as the task force contact? The vibe I got from the comics is that most (if not all) of the Vindicators are quite content with their team as it as, and anyone moving from the Vindies to the Phalanx would probably NOT be by her/his choice.
Desdemona seems to be getting more involved with the major signature characters now - she features on the new Trial in I21, and she's used as the example of a pet summoner in the revamped costume creator.


@Golden Girl

City of Heroes comics and artwork

 

Posted

I'm wondering if it's an actual hidden message where one of the devs is departing from the studio. You can theoretically have States die and him become like this symbol but that would likely mess with Emperor Marcus Cole's whole shenanigans.


 

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I'd speculate that it'll be either Citadel or Synapse.

Citadel is just...amazingly boring, has a grindfest of a task force, and hasn't really been used in much of the more recent content. I can see the devs feel like they aren't losing much potential with dropping him. Hopefully this wouldn't end up with any sort of cop-out ending where he comes back because his data was stored somewhere and he was recreated with a new body.

Synapse has more personality than Citadel for sure, but also has an awful task force that needs to be looked at. Like Citadel, he also hasn't been prominently featured in any newer content that I recall. I also feel that he also has a lot more potential than Citadel for going out in a blaze of dramatic glory.

I don't think it will be Statesman because they redid the Maria Jenkins arc centered around saving Statesman not more than a year ago. I doubt they want to ditch that much work this quickly.

Sister Psyche is in the new tutorial and, from my perspective, is one of the more popular signature blueside characters.

Manticore embodies the vigilante movement in the game and -- maybe this is just my perception -- but I feel like he's involved in more story arcs out there than any other Phalanxer.

BaBs is in the new tutorial and is featured prominently (as was mentioned already) as the melee damage rep in the game. Again, I also think he's one of the more popular blueside signature characters. This doesn't necessarily disqualify him, but I don't think he's the prime candidate.

Positron is popular, has a revamped task force, and is States' second-in-command (although he's got a lot more support -- go figure). He's the least likely candidate from my viewpoint.

Numina...well, she skirts the line of possibility in my mind, but I don't feel like her task force is as universally panned as Synapse or Citadel. I also feel like there would be less impact than say, Synapse if Numina's spirit was sealed or destroyed. I mean...she's already 'technically' dead. Of course, one could argue that Citadel is in much the same situation what with being a robot. Numina's a distant third possibility to me.

No matter what direction they take this story though, I hope they do leave said individual dead so that the impact is really there. I'm psyched for these signature story arcs and a lore-changing death could go a long way to driving home these stories as must-play experiences for anyone that enjoys the story or characters in the game.


"Always remember that you're unique -- just like everybody else."

 

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Numina is also in the new tutorial, by the Longbow helicopter that takes you to Atlas Park.

And as well as the new MJ arc, Statesman is also a key part of Mender Ramiel's arc.


@Golden Girl

City of Heroes comics and artwork

 

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Originally Posted by Golden Girl View Post
Numina is also in the new tutorial, by the Longbow helicopter that takes you to Atlas Park.
Numina is also in the new tutorial? Hmm...well, that's one more reason for me to consider her an outlier I guess.


"Always remember that you're unique -- just like everybody else."

 

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I see no reason they can't bring back whoever they killed.

That's a comic book staple. Kill off a signature character and then bring them back!

Of course, with Sister Psyche, Citadel and Numina there's easy ways to reverse this, and it could lead to the signature story arcs after the "Who will die" set of arcs.

Whoever has died. Now it will be "The Search for Spock"

However, if they want to keep it permanent, Synapse is still the best bet imo.


BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection

 

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Instead of being killed, BaBs is crippled, leading to the I22 new powerset, Psychic Melee.

(Yes, I made that up.)


 

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Originally Posted by Golden Girl View Post
But how could you do that if he dies?
Draw his dead body? ;p


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady_of_Ysgard View Post
Statesman is pretty much the ONLY signature hero not in the huge 'Portal Guarding Group' in the Tin Mage MK II TF's final mission. Everyone else is there, EVERYONE.

No Statesman.
Who do you think is holding the camera?

(Oh, and FPAANS.)


We've been saving Paragon City for eight and a half years. It's time to do it one more time.
(If you love this game as much as I do, please read that post.)

 

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Please please please be Statesman.


"If you build it, they will run you over with it."-RPG Designers Mantra
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Originally Posted by Rusted_Metal View Post
Please please please be Statesman.

Uhm. Dark Pic.

Wait, I thought he was already dead. Matt Miller did say he ripped off his cape from his corpse...



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Originally Posted by Bakuryu View Post
Sister Psyche is in the new tutorial and, from my perspective, is one of the more popular signature blueside characters.

BaBs is in the new tutorial and is featured prominently (as was mentioned already) as the melee damage rep in the game. Again, I also think he's one of the more popular blueside signature characters. This doesn't necessarily disqualify him, but I don't think he's the prime candidate.
Popularity actually may be a factor that makes them MORE likely. As is their involvement in the new tutorial.

Involvement in the new tutorial could be a means of bringing those characters more to the forefront of things. It means nothing when a seldom used, unpopular, barely remembered character is killed off. It is a lot more meaningful when a popular, well-known character dies.

If they kill off Citadel or Synapse because they are less popular and less frequently used it will be like when Marvel had the Punisher kill Jack O Lantern.....no one really cared, and it was more or less completely irrelevant.

I'd like to see Paragon Studios buck the trend that comic companies usually go with. Comic companies either kill off B list characters no one cares about in their big "Who's going to die?!" storylines -OR- they kill a popular A list character and bring them back a year or so later in a convoluted, implausible storyline (Captain America, Superman, Batman, etc.)

I want to see Paragon avoid both of those cop-outs and kill off a popular A list character...and have them STAY dead.

I've already mentioned why I think it will be BaBs. With all the work they're doing at the moment, it doesn't seem likely that they will kill off a TF contact character and make more work for themselves by having to rewrite a TF. They said they aren't against rewriting things when it happens, but that doesn't necessarily mean rewriting a task force.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately.

 

Posted

Alternately, it could be Sister Psyche and we will get another few story arcs where Manticore turns from a darker hero to a true vigilante and starts using Wyvern to actually KILL the people he holds responsible.

(and yes, that could include US)

Remember, he's already hacked into the medical transporter system once, I'm sure he could do it again to ensure the people he wants to take out actually die.

Manticore could be a very interesting, and highly dangerous villain, he's already halfway there anyway, all he needs is enough of a push to completely snap. His wife dying would be a good incentive for him to go off the deep end. The broken bow could be a symbol of Manticore renouncing his heroic ways. It wasn't broken in combat, he broke it himself and threw it at Statesman, causing the gashes in his faceplate.

(this is actually the storyline *I* would go with if I were in charge of it)


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately.

 

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BaBs is old and has no TF. He is most likely to die.


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Posted

Going with my second theory:

In the course of the story arc, Sister Psyche gets killed, and Manticore holds both the player characters and Statesman responsible. (the player characters because they either killed her or let her die, so it works for both the hero and villain arcs)

One promo says "Who will die?" while another says "Who will fall?". Someone "falling" doesn't necessarily mean dying, it could also mean a fall from grace (i.e. Manticore going bad after his wife is killed). This could also explain why both Sister P and Manti were missing from one of the promo shots: someone at Paragon was dropping a hint.

In the resulting confrontation, Statesman forbids Manticore from going after the ones he holds responsible, and Manticore hits him in the face with his bow, breaking it and causing the damage to States' faceplate. BaBs goes to hit Manticore and States grabs his hand in midswing, breaking his gauntlet.

Manticore then goes after the player characters on his own, using Wyvern as his own personal army, which opens up Wyvern as an enemy group for heroes as well. And he doesn't stop there, he starts overtly running Wyvern as a vigilante group, instead of operating it from behind the scenes.

Now, that removes 2 TF contacts, so what happens there is: Manticore is replaced by BaBs and the goal of the TF becomes tracking Manticore down, with Wyvern as the primary enemy group.

Sister Psyche is replaced by Malaise, who is taking care of her unfinished business in return for all the help she gave him. The TF doesn't even have to change other than the dialogue, which explains that this is something Sister Psyche was investigating when she died.

It explains all the promo shots we've seen so far, and could be seen as the culmination of Going Rogue, with one of Paragon City's premier heroes going bad (Manticore is the one most likely to do so, as he's already halfway there). It also leaves the door open for Sister Psyche to come back later with a complete redesign of her look, via her mind-riding ability in someone else's body (because of all the Phalanx members, her costume is the most dated)

Sound plausible?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately.

 

Posted

Brawler has "3 days to retirement" written all over him. However I would like to see Manticore die, then Psyche goes dark. That's something I would love to see. Psyche goes to the dark side and a few months down the line a new heroe takes up the mantle of Manticore and we get Manticore III.


 

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Originally Posted by Core_Tap View Post
Brawler has "3 days to retirement" written all over him.
BaBs is technically out of retirement. He came back to the heroing gig despite being firmly in the "too old for this crap" category. And that's probably why he'll get killed off, because it would fall in line with the standard cliches.


 

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Personally I would love to see BaBs retire. The man has been doing this for quite awhile and he is getting rather old. Out of the rest, would love to see Manti just go away. He looks silly.

In addtion, it has been ten years since the war. You think they would have permanently replaced some of their fallen comrades by now. Why not raise up some of the other heroes in game to fill in their ranks?


Shadowy Presence - Absolutely, positively worse than playing a Kheldian... --Myrmydon

 

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Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect View Post
Reasons why it will be Back Alley Brawler who bites it:

1) The zone he is found in is being destroyed, so removing his character model won't affect anything, because his model is being removed anyway.

2) Of the 8 possibilities, he is the only one who is not a Task Force contact. That means rewriting a Task Force will not be necessary.

3) He is the only character among the 8 possibilities who duplicates another's exact powersets and AT. Statesman and Back Alley Brawler are both Invuln/SS tanks.

4) The devs are probably going to ensure that all 5 basic Hero ATs remain represented among the games signature characters. There are THREE tanks among them: Statesman, BaBs, and Citadel.

5) He has very little presence in the game at large, only appearing in 5 missions total. Removing him from Recluse's Victory won't have much effect, he can easily be replaced by Citadel.

6) The developer who used him as his redname alias no longer works for Paragon Studios. It is unlikely that anyone else will take up the mantle, and equally unlikely they will kill off a character being actively used as someone's redname. It also isn't too likely they will kill off one who has not been used yet.

7) His inclusion in the tutorial will ensure that new players become familar with him prior to his death. It has very little impact when a character you've never encountered is killed, and ALL of his in game appearances happen after level 30.

(Synapse will probably be safe for reasons 2, 4, and 6. He is a TF contact, he is the only Blaster representative in the Phalanx, and is currently being actively used as a developer's redname alias.)

All of those reasons add up to Back Alley Brawler making the most sense to kill off as a major game event. He is an iconic character in the universe, but is not so widely present that a lot of retconning would need to occur if he dies.

Very well thought. I vote for BaB too. He no longer works here and maybe they'll introduce a new Redname to the group.


What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.

 

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Originally Posted by Jibikao View Post
Very well thought. I vote for BaB too. He no longer works here and maybe they'll introduce a new Redname to the group.
I vote for Castle. Hopefully, they will take him back in time (via Oro) pre issue 13 and kill him off there, before he gets a chance to mess up PVP.