Manticore & Sister Psyche Resurrected
By
Aggelakis,
Posted on: 2011-07-28 02:27 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
Whatever you do Devs. DO NOT PULL A MARVEL! Leave them dead.
If you want to surprise us, don't off the character that would merely be 'convenient' to replace in game. Hell. Go for Statesman!
@Kyuu
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1) They're making the new tutorial a major part of the ongoing advancement of the story of the game.|
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
Reasons why it will be Back Alley Brawler who bites it:
1) The zone he is found in is being destroyed, so removing his character model won't affect anything, because his model is being removed anyway. 2) Of the 8 possibilities, he is the only one who is not a Task Force contact. That means rewriting a Task Force will not be necessary. 3) He is the only character among the 8 possibilities who duplicates another's exact powersets and AT. Statesman and Back Alley Brawler are both Invuln/SS tanks. 4) The devs are probably going to ensure that all 5 basic Hero ATs remain represented among the games signature characters. There are THREE tanks among them: Statesman, BaBs, and Citadel. 5) He has very little presence in the game at large, only appearing in 5 missions total. Removing him from Recluse's Victory won't have much effect, he can easily be replaced by Citadel. 6) The developer who used him as his redname alias no longer works for Paragon Studios. It is unlikely that anyone else will take up the mantle, and equally unlikely they will kill off a character being actively used as someone's redname. It also isn't too likely they will kill off one who has not been used yet. 7) His inclusion in the tutorial will ensure that new players become familar with him prior to his death. It has very little impact when a character you've never encountered is killed, and ALL of his in game appearances happen after level 30. (Synapse will probably be safe for reasons 2, 4, and 6. He is a TF contact, he is the only Blaster representative in the Phalanx, and is currently being actively used as a developer's redname alias.) All of those reasons add up to Back Alley Brawler making the most sense to kill off as a major game event. He is an iconic character in the universe, but is not so widely present that a lot of retconning would need to occur if he dies. |
2) They've already said they have no qualms rewriting things to account for this event, in fact I'd say that a moribund old-school TF that needs a revamp would be MORE reason to suspect one of the others, not less.
3 and 4) It's not like they've worried about that kind of parity before. Look at redside, not only are there multiples, other ATs aren't represented at all. Besides, not sure where you got the idea Citadel was a Tanker. He's a Blaster according to the wiki. And seriously, replace BaB with Citadel?
5) So? Outside of TFs, most of the 8 don't appear in many other places. Also, see #2
6) You forgot the "much liked and respected" part of your former dev description. Out of the 8 with real world analogues, he's probably the most liked overall (sorry Posi and Manti). While they're looking to have a big event, I don't think they're looking to gratuitously piss people off.
7) You argue the fact that he doesn't show up much is reason to bump him off, and you argue that the fact they're making him show up more is reason to bump him off? /em befuddled
8) there's something you forgot: BaBs doesn't use a bow. Sure it could be a red herring or the first of many pictures that apply to any of the 8, but until that happens there's nothing to say that image can be safely ignored.
"Null is as much an argument "for removing the cottage rule" as the moon being round is for buying tennis shoes." -Memphis Bill
I like this artwork since it has Manticore in it. Archery ftw (Best sport ever.)
I say Citadel.
He will be replaced with Citadel MKIII.
Bastion > Citadel > [Insert synonym to Citadel/Bastion]
Then Citadel MKIII can be the Citadel TF commander.
:3
@War-Nugget
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Originally Posted by Wavicle
CoH players are stupid and incompetent compared to WoW players.
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Ghost Widow and Scirocco forever! |
Originally Posted by OneFrigidWitch
I think BABs should bite it, and Widow come over from the dark side. Then Manti and Widow can get it on for being the misunderstood people in their bunch, and SP can go crazy cause she lost her man.
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Originally Posted by Lemur Lad
7) You argue the fact that he doesn't show up much is reason to bump him off, and you argue that the fact they're making him show up more is reason to bump him off? /em befuddled
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Originally Posted by Lemur Lad
8) there's something you forgot: BaBs doesn't use a bow. Sure it could be a red herring or the first of many pictures that apply to any of the 8, but until that happens there's nothing to say that image can be safely ignored.
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From having him as an ally in the Mender Silos arc. He was the only NPC that didn't get turned into a grease spot, and he actually soloed Recluse in it. I sat back and watched to see if any of the villains could kill him. None of them did. I'd like to see a blaster that could do that, especially when being controlled by the CPU.| not sure where you got the idea Citadel was a Tanker. |
If he's supposed to be an example of a blaster....why the hell can't MY blasters take that kind of beating? He outlived Back Alley Brawler and Statesman, and killed the enemies that killed them.
He's actually more of a tankmage than anything, but the sheer durability he exhibits in-game makes him more of a tank in my eyes than a blaster.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
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Actually, they did |
Originally Posted by DLancer
Note that they never say that only one person dies.
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
I would say Citadel.
He has the worst costume, a terrible grindy Task Force, and is literally the most boring of the entire Freedom Phalanx. He doesn't do anything, while his Praetorian counterpart is powerful and looks awesome.
Dawnslayer on Virtue.
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This. |
Originally Posted by ScottyB
Giving him a presence in a character's early experiences introduces him, and makes him meaningful to kill off
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For new players that may be playing the game, it will work better to kill off someone they're familiar with already. Killing off a character they just met in the course of the arc they die in doesn't make for a very good story most of the time. If they do it that way it's just like "Oh, that person I just got introduced to died just now, why should that matter to me?"
For that reason, it would make sense for it to be either BaBs or Sister Psyche, since new players will be familiar with them from the tutorial. With any other character, it's entirely possible that a new player will never have encountered them before they run the arc they die in.
A character you've never seen before and don't care about is no better than a red-shirted Star Trek crew member when they die. It doesn't matter in the slightest. If they want this to be more than an "Oh, so and so died, big deal" it's going to have to be someone that will have been around from the beginning of the game experience.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
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Sister Psyche's an interesting note. Unlike most of the others, she doesn't really get those occasional token appearances in the other arcs. You never get to fight her in CoV (outside of the LRSF), she doesn't show up as a suicidal minion in any of Maria Jenkins' new missions, etc. In truth, she'd actually be extremely easy to write out. Heck, they could just give her TF to Aurora and let Malaise be a trainer again.|
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
For that reason, it would make sense for it to be either BaBs or Sister Psyche, since new players will be familiar with them from the tutorial. With any other character, it's entirely possible that a new player will never have encountered them before they run the arc they die in.
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And then there's the "set Manticore down the path of a Vigilante" thing again...
I would not be surprised at all if BaBs was retconned into a Street Justice/Willpower Brute.
Because Brutes can be heroic now.
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(Note to self: draw more stuff with Manitcore in it.) |
Originally Posted by War-Nugget
I like this artwork since it has Manticore in it. Archery ftw (Best sport ever.)
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David Nakayama, Lead Concept Artist
COH Concept Art Gallery now open at http://pixelsaurus.deviantart.com/
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But how could you do that if he dies? |
Originally Posted by Noble Savage
(Note to self: draw more stuff with Manitcore in it.)
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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Zombiecore?
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Originally Posted by Golden Girl
But how could you do that if he dies?
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Robo-core
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Originally Posted by NightErrant
Zombiecore?
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Here's an evil idea; In Going Rogue we have missions where the decisions we make govern which contact disappears from the world for our character. What if they use that tech in the signature arc?
"Very well, <Player>, you can save Manticore, or you can save Sister Psyche. One will die, and you will choose. But know that I, Protean, will be victorious no matter how you choose. Of course, if you fail to choose swiftly, both will die. Bwahahahaa...."
Not that they'd be that evil...
Synchrotron, level 50 Radiation/Radiation Defender
Fighting crime on Champion since 2004
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Don't forget that the story is going to be told from the both sides - each month there will be a hero arc and a villain arc, each one telling the same story - so it's quite possible that the final part will see red side players invovled in killing the one who dies.
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Originally Posted by _Synchrotron_
Here's an evil idea; In Going Rogue we have missions where the decisions we make govern which contact disappears from the world for our character. What if they use that tech in the signature arc?
"Very well, <Player>, you can save Manticore, or you can save Sister Psyche. One will die, and you will choose. But know that I, Protean, will be victorious no matter how you choose. Of course, if you fail to choose swiftly, both will die. Bwahahahaa...." Not that they'd be that evil... |
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
It's Statesman. Manticore shoots him. Numina brings him back.
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I, for one, hope that the red side arc doesn't just let you "be involved". The redside version should involve getting to pull the trigger.|
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
Don't forget that the story is going to be told from the both sides - each month there will be a hero arc and a villain arc, each one telling the same story - so it's quite possible that the final part will see red side players invovled in killing the one who dies.
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This game is supposed to be about our heroes and our villains. Not our tagalongs. While I'm looking forward to most of i21, I expect fully to be disappointed with the signature arcs for this reason.
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Unintentional Energy Melee stinks crack!
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Originally Posted by NightErrant
I would not be surprised at all if BaBs was retconned into a Street Justice/Willpower Brute.
Because Brutes can be heroic now. |
Thank you, City of Heroes, for giving me a superhero social network combined with amazingly smooth game play. Petitions signed with realistic expectations.
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Yes!|
Originally Posted by Rejolt
Unintentional Energy Melee stinks crack!
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Wait, what?
Dr. Todt's theme.
i make stuff...
I can't think of anyone that would dislike it if Statesman were the one under the gun. And we DO have some foreshadowing of this.
Statesman is pretty much the ONLY signature hero not in the huge 'Portal Guarding Group' in the Tin Mage MK II TF's final mission. Everyone else is there, EVERYONE.
No Statesman.
And remember who was the man behind old Flagboy?
I have two ideas that I would love to see done, but won't because of how many toes it steps on...
"Death of Statesman" Storyarc:
Marcus is 'killed', and we get four knock-offs including a clone of Marcus and Stefan, a Roman-armored black guy, and then two more that I don't feel like being creative to make. Ultimately, Marcus comes back somehow, and "Statesboy" becomes a regular and interesting addition to the CoH universe.
The other idea is Psyche being possessed by some kind of celestial force (preferably in the shape of a bird), and after being corrupted by human form, leaving Psyche having to leave Earth until her new immense powers are needed in the Coming Storm.
...I can BE original, I just thought it'd be funny to write up knock-offs!
"And of course, Steven Jay Blum is in it...He's the Sam Jackson of anime." -AmuroNT1
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I would mind |
Originally Posted by Lady_of_Ysgard
I can't think of anyone that would dislike it if Statesman were the one under the gun.
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And we DO have some foreshadowing of this. Statesman is pretty much the ONLY signature hero not in the huge 'Portal Guarding Group' in the Tin Mage MK II TF's final mission. Everyone else is there, EVERYONE. No Statesman. |
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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The Massively screen shot gallery has that picture expanded that shows Manticore's broken Bow, BaB's sparking busted gauntlet and Statesman's mask with some nasty grooves cut in it. |
Originally Posted by Lemur Lad
8) there's something you forgot: BaBs doesn't use a bow. Sure it could be a red herring or the first of many pictures that apply to any of the 8, but until that happens there's nothing to say that image can be safely ignored.
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Here.
Also, putting BAB in the character creation process would tend to make him a less likely candidate for death.
And when Dr. Aeon was asked in Ustream whether the Task Force Commander badge was being taken into account with regard to one of them dying, he didn't say, "That's not a problem." But something more to the effect of "We've taken that into account." Which, to me, was a giveaway that it wasn't BAB.
But... we'll see...
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