End of Cottage Rule? Please?
By
Aett_Thorn,
Posted on: 2011-07-03 15:14 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
Sounds like something to put in the Suggestion Forum.
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
Non-acceptance of Buffs != Changed Power
Null the Gull is not a cottage rule breaker, nor should it be.
Head of TRICK, the all Trick Arrow and Traps SG
Part of the Repeat Offenders
Still waiting for his Official BackAlleyBrawler No-Prize
I agree, end it.
My new Youtube Channel with CoH info
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Saying that shows you have no clue as to what it is and what its purpose is. |
Originally Posted by JayboH
I agree, end it.
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The "Cottage rule" was taken from a post Castle made on the Blaster boards where he gave an example of changing Build Up from a power that increased damage and accuracy to one that built a small cottage.
It says, in essence, that whatever changes are made to a power, the basic purpose of that power will remain the same. It has very rarely been "violated" (and the only example I can think of *right* offhand being early in the game, where Fold Space was removed from Gravity, Wormhole moved up and Singularity introduced.)
They learned precisely what player reaction would be when they violated it again in - I forget the issue, but in one issue's beta. You'll note we have *five* powers in our PPPs/APPs now. Know why? To avoid being lynched after they *flat out replaced* what they called the "least popular" powers in the PPPs with "something more useful" - for instance, in one personal example, they replaced the AOE blast in Mace Mastery for Dominators with Personal Force Field - replacing a power I certainly used with one that was 100% useless for me.
Not only did this remove powers people were using, but rendered (sometimes expensive) IOs completely useless and require a respec.
Needless to say, after player reaction and a small mob with pitchforks and torches showing up at the offices, they decided to put in a fifth power instead of replacing them. They went from violating the cottage rule to *not.*
Examples of other things people suggest that, yes, would be violations of the cottage rule:
- Replacing Black Hole/Dimension shift
- Replacing cage powers
Examples of things that did not/do not violate it, but which people misunderstand as doing so:
- Electric Armor - replacing Conserve Power with Energize. The power STILL provides an END discount, but it has a heal attached to it now.
- Energy Aura - adding a heal component to its AOE end drain.
- Adding a fear to Burn.
- Removing the fear from Burn.
- Null the Gull. He does NOT change the powers he affects - he just changes the buff on YOU (similar, essentially, to how a Stone tank/brute running Rooted would counter someone using Group Fly. Just because YOU aren't affected doesn't change the power.)
- Removing/replacing knockback in powers that do it. Wouldn't violate it (unless the power is meant to do knockback and JUST or Primarily do knockback.) it's just generally a bad idea.
- Adding Bruising to tank T1s
- Moving Taunt.
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To give a concrete example on this, removing the knockback from Force Bolt would violate the cottage rule, but removing it from Crane Kick would not.
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Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
- Removing/replacing knockback in powers that do it. Wouldn't violate it (unless the power is meant to do knockback and JUST or Primarily do knockback.) it's just generally a bad idea.
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You are mistaken about my knowledge of the cottage rule. End it. Please god end it. The crying will stop over a change, given time. The cottage rule forces crappy powers to stay the way the are so that those 2 or 3 people that actually enjoy them can keep the rest of us suffering.
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Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
Saying that shows you have no clue as to what it is and what its purpose is.
The "Cottage rule" was taken from a post Castle made on the Blaster boards where he gave an example of changing Build Up from a power that increased damage and accuracy to one that built a small cottage. It says, in essence, that whatever changes are made to a power, the basic purpose of that power will remain the same. It has very rarely been "violated" (and the only example I can think of *right* offhand being early in the game, where Fold Space was removed from Gravity, Wormhole moved up and Singularity introduced.) They learned precisely what player reaction would be when they violated it again in - I forget the issue, but in one issue's beta. You'll note we have *five* powers in our PPPs/APPs now. Know why? To avoid being lynched after they *flat out replaced* what they called the "least popular" powers in the PPPs with "something more useful" - for instance, in one personal example, they replaced the AOE blast in Mace Mastery for Dominators with Personal Force Field - replacing a power I certainly used with one that was 100% useless for me. Not only did this remove powers people were using, but rendered (sometimes expensive) IOs completely useless and require a respec. Needless to say, after player reaction and a small mob with pitchforks and torches showing up at the offices, they decided to put in a fifth power instead of replacing them. They went from violating the cottage rule to *not.* Examples of other things people suggest that, yes, would be violations of the cottage rule: - Replacing Black Hole/Dimension shift - Replacing cage powers Examples of things that did not/do not violate it, but which people misunderstand as doing so: - Electric Armor - replacing Conserve Power with Energize. The power STILL provides an END discount, but it has a heal attached to it now. - Energy Aura - adding a heal component to its AOE end drain. - Adding a fear to Burn. - Removing the fear from Burn. - Null the Gull. He does NOT change the powers he affects - he just changes the buff on YOU (similar, essentially, to how a Stone tank/brute running Rooted would counter someone using Group Fly. Just because YOU aren't affected doesn't change the power.) - Removing/replacing knockback in powers that do it. Wouldn't violate it (unless the power is meant to do knockback and JUST or Primarily do knockback.) it's just generally a bad idea. - Adding Bruising to tank T1s - Moving Taunt. |
My new Youtube Channel with CoH info
You might know me as FlintEastwood now on Freedom
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I don't think Memphis Bill called you wrongly on this.|
Originally Posted by JayboH
You are mistaken about my knowledge of the cottage rule.
End it. Please god end it. The crying will stop over a change, given time. The cottage rule forces crappy powers to stay the way the are so that those 2 or 3 people that actually enjoy them can keep the rest of us suffering. |
The Cottage rule can be summed up very simply with one question:
Does your modification remove an enhancement type?
If you answered: Yes
Then you have broken the cottage rule.
If you answered: No
Then you haven't broken the cottage rule.
Now, I'm going to be very blunt here Jay. You need to go read this thread: http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=264829
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The Original Poster's suggestion is made with the idea of creating a character with no flaws, no drawbacks, and no undesirable powers. The O.P.'s suggestion is made with the singular goal of creating a perfect avatar. With that in mind, we can safely file this suggestion where it belongs. In the rubbish bin. |
Need to go find a different Game. We won't let you pull that stunt with our game.
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Personally, I see the cottage rule as an oath of trust. That whatever the mistake, good or bad, you can trust the devs not to pull the rug out from under you. I'm not familiar with Star Wars Galaxy, but I'm sure this rule is a legacy of that whole debacle that upset a whole player base and probably ruined the game because of lack of trust.|
Originally Posted by Vel_Overload
The cottage rule is a copout for the developers. It has always been a copout. It will always be a copout.
... The truth is that the rule proves that the devs have a big ego and aren't willing to admit they made some mistakes and fix them. The rule shows the devs are lazy and would rather shovel 'new' yet not polished material down our throats without going back and cleaning house (or in this case, an archaic cottage) The rule shows that the devs don't care about quality and follow a design philosophy of quantity over quality. |
Yes, the cottage rule may keep some stinkers around, like Black Hole/Dimension Shift, but the cottage rule is probably what's standing in the way of balancing Super Strength and Rage/Footstomp or the, IMO, overpowered Seeds of Confusion.
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| In the end the devs are useless and very very rarely admit they made mistakes or fix them. It took how long to finally get them to make the shields AoE? Or how about fixing MM pet's AI (oh wait). Vigilance change took a miracle and a half and even getting the devs acknowledge that PBs and WSs aren't measuring up anymore is impossible. They just act like anything they aren't focusing on now isn't important. |
Curious, have you ever been married? How many divorces have you had?
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Originally Posted by JayboH
The cottage rule forces crappy powers to stay the way the are so that those 2 or 3 people that actually enjoy them can keep the rest of us suffering.
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Everyone has an opportunity to research a powerset before taking a powerset. If you realise you don't like something you picked then its no one elses fault nor problem. The main thing is that nothing is changed so badly somebody who likes what they picked gets something that isn't what it's supposed to be.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
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Fixed for you. You obviously have zero undersatnding and zero clue, so you have to revert RIGHT at the start to two personal attacks. |
Originally Posted by Vel_Overload
Every time I post I make an *** out of myself.
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/em golfclap
Then again, I think your signature sums up quite a bit about you:
"Whining about everything since 2006."
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| The truth is that the rule proves that the devs have a big ego and aren't willing to admit they made some mistakes and fix them. |
Wait, none of that is true?
Imagine that. Maybe you're wrong... wait, no maybe there. You *are* wrong.
Perhaps, before you go crying (to use your own description of your actions) about the devs egos, you should look to your own - and try getting a few facts straight before posting again.
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Don't get me wrong, I fundamentally agree with you and Bill, but the above quote is, I think, what some people (myself included) feel is where the Cottage Rule fails. In my opinion, it needs to be, to some degree at least, negotiable.|
Originally Posted by Leo_G
...Yes, the cottage rule may keep some stinkers around, like Black Hole/Dimension Shift...
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Why? Well, Force Fields is a good example, and I already went on one diatribe about it today, so if you're curious as to the long-hand of my reasoning, check the thread in this forum about Bubblers, but the short version is that the set is overall dated and has very very little to contribute over, say, Cold Domination, which has a ton of useful goodies in it.
This isn't (always) about making 'god characters,' it's just about wanting each power set to be as good as the others. Look at how unpopular Gravity is because it has Dimension Shift and two mediocre-at-best attacks. It just doesn't offer what a Control set needs - some actual different types of soft and hard control.
@Draeth Darkstar
Virtue [Heroes, Roleplay], Freedom [Villains], Exalted [All Sides, Roleplay]
Code:
I24 Proc Chance = (Enhanced Recharge + Activation Time) * (Current PPM * 1.25) / 60*(1 + .75*(.15*Radius - 0.011*Radius*(360-Arc)/30)) Single Target Radius = 0. AoE Non-Cone Arc = 360.
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Did you pay attention to the bit about PPPs and what happened the LAST time they broke said rule?|
Originally Posted by JayboH
You are mistaken about my knowledge of the cottage rule. End it. Please god end it. The crying will stop over a change, given time. The cottage rule forces crappy powers to stay the way the are so that those 2 or 3 people that actually enjoy them can keep the rest of us suffering.
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No?
Or did you just ignore it to make this still-obviously-blind-to-the-purpose post? Since you still show absolutely zero understanding. As well as zero empathy for your fellow players.
WILL the devs break said rule? Probably, at some point. IF they see a power that needs fixing SO badly that a simple tweak to numbers or secondary effects won't cut it. Note, that is NOT knockback/down. That is NOT self-shielding. That would be, oh, having a Blaster with an aura designed to draw aggro while debuffing the blaster's resistance, to go to an extreme (and obviously not in the game) example.
Learn what it is and how it applies, if at all, to what you want - which it probably doesn't. And get a clue or three. YOU may not like a power. You have every right to skip it or take another powerset. Descriptions of the powers exist as you create the character.
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Er, having played grav to 50, and having several in there, yes, it DOES have a pretty fair of hard and soft control. Not sure how you're not seeing:|
Originally Posted by Draeth Darkstar
Look at how unpopular Gravity is because it has Dimension Shift and two mediocre-at-best attacks. It just doesn't offer what a Control set needs - some actual different types of soft and hard control.
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Hard control: ST and AOE Immob, ST and AOE Hold
Assisted hard control: Singularity
Soft control: Lift, Wormhole (TP/Stun,) Propel (knockback, though its primary purpose is damage)
"Special" - Dimension Shift
Gravity's problems do not need to be addressed by breaking the cottage rule. Gravity's problems can be fixed in *large* part by adjusting animation times. I like gravity,and *I* gripe about the animation times (IE, "Use propel, watch the target die of old age," or "Watch things start to move before wormhole finishes animating.") NONE of that would fall afoul of the cottage rule.
What WOULD is, say, turning Propel (ranged damage power) into, oh, Telekenesis.
Dimension shift? The biggest complaint over IT is that people can't tell what's affected very easily (with some complaint over duration.) I've saved teams backsides with Dimension Shift, TYVM. That's something to be handled in animation and art, with perhaps a tweak to the intangible duration and/or immob mag. Again, not falling afoul of said cottage rule.
Gravity has more direct, reliable control than the "darling" (annoying) Illusion that I sure don't hear many complaints about: ST hold, ST confuse, PBAOE hold, placed fear (which gets run out of or lets them attack when they're damaged,) two sets of pets to scatter things, one ranged damage, and, ooh, two invisibilities. And don't forget to build to try to perma PA, and be sure to watch some of that illusory damage heal back....
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Force Field may not be the premier example you want it to be. Keep in mind that the majority's of the game content is found in level's 1 to 50... not in 50+|
Originally Posted by Draeth Darkstar
Don't get me wrong, I fundamentally agree with you and Bill, but the above quote is, I think, what some people (myself included) feel is where the Cottage Rule fails. In my opinion, it needs to be, to some degree at least, negotiable.
Why? Well, Force Fields is a good example, and I already went on one diatribe about it today, so if you're curious as to the long-hand of my reasoning, check the thread in this forum about Bubblers, but the short version is that the set is overall dated and has very very little to contribute over, say, Cold Domination, which has a ton of useful goodies in it. |
For the foreseeable future, that content balance isn't likely to change, and probably won't change.
The simple fact of the matter is this: Force Field offers Defense and Anti-Mez from levels 12 to 50 on a defender, and 20 to 50 on everybody else. With this in mind, Force Field has a lot to offer that Cold-Domination doesn't.
Now, keep in mind that the developers could add effects to the force-field powers without changing what those powers do. For example, adding -regeneration to Detention Field wouldn't change what the power does (isolate an enemy). By the same token, powers such as Repulsion field could also be modded. Imagine for a second Repulsion field offering a +defense to everybody in the bubble for every enemy pushed away.
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| This isn't (always) about making 'god characters,' it's just about wanting each power set to be as good as the others. |
The problem with this point is that the most vocal advocates tend to come from the Ah W4N7 4 74NK M4G3 N0A! line of advocacy.
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| Look at how unpopular Gravity is because it has Dimension Shift and two mediocre-at-best attacks. |
Gravity became unpopular years ago after it's exclusive and largely non-resisted damage was removed from the game.
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| It just doesn't offer what a Control set needs - some actual different types of soft and hard control. |
Now, that being said, the problem with gravity is that the set has no initial encounter mitigation tools. Every other control set has some kind of mez effect, be it stun, to-hit, or Phantom Army that immediately draws the attention of the attacking mob and gives the controller time to set-up without being targeted.
A good case in point is Worm-Hole... which does provide a stun... after the attack has initiated and all enemies can turn and fire on the Grav player. Simply moving the stun
The "problems" with Gravity were known to Castle, Synapse, and Sunstorm. Last I heard they had some ideas they were playing around with, but nothing was working quiet like they wanted them to.
I don't know if Gravity is still on Black Scorpion's list of stuff to look at.
You are technically correct when you say that Lift and Propel are soft controls, but can you sincerely argue that they're on par with what the other control sets have at their disposal for soft control? They're both single target, and as you said yourself, Propel also takes forever and a day to use, where as other sets have area knockdowns or sleeps or confuses to mitigate an entire crowd's output. It's just not as competitive as most of the other Control sets. And yes, Illusion is something of an anomaly in that it's pets do a lot of the work that other sets have soft CC for... but they do it pretty well, which is why it's considered strong.
Edit:
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You're practically repeating the problem that I highlighted in Force Fields back to me... it has one good power outside of it's shields, the other six powers in the set range from extremely situational to utterly useless. It's most direct competitor set, being Cold Domination (and the reason I used that one as my example) doesn't have any powers that you could justify calling useless... or even particularly situational, for that matter.
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Originally Posted by je_saist
The simple fact of the matter is this: Force Field offers Defense and Anti-Mez from levels 12 to 50 on a defender, and 20 to 50 on everybody else. With this in mind, Force Field has a lot to offer that Cold-Domination doesn't.
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@Draeth Darkstar
Virtue [Heroes, Roleplay], Freedom [Villains], Exalted [All Sides, Roleplay]
Code:
I24 Proc Chance = (Enhanced Recharge + Activation Time) * (Current PPM * 1.25) / 60*(1 + .75*(.15*Radius - 0.011*Radius*(360-Arc)/30)) Single Target Radius = 0. AoE Non-Cone Arc = 360.
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Nope. Nor would I try.|
Originally Posted by Draeth Darkstar
You are technically correct when you say that Lift and Propel are soft controls, but can you sincerely argue that they're on par with what the other control sets have at their disposal for soft control?
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Propel is a damage attack. Plain and simple. Against a mezzed target it's huge damage.
By the same token, lift is a damage attack. Yes, it has some soft control potential, but not really that much. Personally, it could probably do with the chain lightning treatment: that is to say give lift the ability to chain from one enemy to another. More damage and more soft-control, without having to change existing enhancement sets.
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I'm not going to get into propel, as until the time on that gets fixed, it is high on my personal "This really is broken" list. |
Originally Posted by Draeth Darkstar
You are technically correct when you say that Lift and Propel are soft controls, but can you sincerely argue that they're on par with what the other control sets have at their disposal for soft control? They're both single target, and as you said yourself, Propel also takes forever and a day to use, where as other sets have area knockdowns or sleeps or confuses to mitigate an entire crowd's output. It's just not as competitive as most of the other Control sets. And yes, Illusion is something of an anomaly in that it's pets do a lot of the work that other sets have soft CC for... but they do it pretty well, which is why it's considered strong.
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Lift, yes, I would put on par with others - a control, even a soft control, *doesn't* have to be AOE to be good. You're taking someone out of the fight for several seconds (assuming they're not immobilized, but you're getting extra damage there - and I'm not holding that against Gravity, as it's true in other power sets, such as Ice (Ice Slick/Cages,) Earth (Earthquake/Cages) and Fire (Bonfire/Cages)) and by the time they're able to get back on their feet - they're getting lifted again.
Like I said, I like Gravity - I've got several, both Controllers and Doms, including a Grav/Kin at 50 - and won't argue it needs some help. But what I see it needing is, again, timing and animation work, nothing that would fundamentally alter the basic premise of any of its powers (yes, even dimension shift) and thus go against the cottage rule.
(Actually, if PVE got PVP's "Fight phased enemies while phased" abilitiy, you'd probably see any complaints about DS cut in half overnight. It really *can* be very useful. Needs a mag increase on the immob to keep bosses from running, though.)
I personally like Gravity too, I just don't feel it's what it should be, and honestly, the only way I could see it being overall improved to the level of the other Controls is if something were to be fundamentally changed - almost certainly Propel. Being the only Control set with four single target abilities is plain and simply a disadvantage at least in the PVE game.
You're right, Lift is acceptable. Dimension Shift could be fixed with existing tech and numbers tweaks (I actually have wished for a long time that Phase powers worked like that in PVE, but I also think they should inherently be mag 4, given their innately more limited nature). What is Propel ever going to offer the set that Lift doesn't already do better without being fundamentally changed? It's redundant any way you cut it. A control set does not need two single target knockback/up/down/sideways/insideout/topsyturby powers. Propel is a strong case for Cottage Rule not being totally infallible, and that's all I was arguing. A rule that is automatically absolute denies the possibility of it ever being wrong, and that is nothing short of foolish.
@Draeth Darkstar
Virtue [Heroes, Roleplay], Freedom [Villains], Exalted [All Sides, Roleplay]
Code:
I24 Proc Chance = (Enhanced Recharge + Activation Time) * (Current PPM * 1.25) / 60*(1 + .75*(.15*Radius - 0.011*Radius*(360-Arc)/30)) Single Target Radius = 0. AoE Non-Cone Arc = 360.
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ok, hold on.... Let's look at those other six powers:|
Originally Posted by Draeth Darkstar
You're practically repeating the problem that I highlighted in Force Fields back to me... it has one good power outside of it's shields, the other six powers in the set range from extremely situational to utterly useless. It's most direct competitor set, being Cold Domination (and the reason I used that one as my example) doesn't have any powers that you could justify calling useless... or even particularly situational, for that matter. |
Force bolt - Minor damage, knockback. Great for positioning as well as keeping away from the defender (and I have to say VERY useful on a Bots/FF, or any other ranged/FF MM.)
Personal FF - You can't affect your teammates (admittedly... but you have already shielded them, right?) but you end up in a very high defense state, able to heal yourself or whatever you may need doing. Situational? Sure. Useful? Yep.
Detention Field - Sure, it makes a single enemy unable to be attacked. But it's fairly obvious. And if it's one being very troublesome, or buffing others (use it on a sorc/death shaman/avalanche shaman/agony mage) using it can make the rest of the fight much easier. Drop the duration a bit or make it a toggle, perhaps, and I think you'd find more people using it. Especially as a toggle.
Repulsion field - Essentially a keep-away power. Smaller radius than Force Bubble, and pulses - though it actually *can* work reasonably well with FB, as it does KB and FB does repel. (Though I'll be honest - at its radius, it's the one power I tend to skip.)
Repulsion Bomb - AOE ranged knockdown, damage, and disorient. You find this useless... how again? Or even situational? Being knockDOWN, unless your'e fighting (say) Primal Clockwork which are weak to KB, you're not even scattering stuff. Tank in trouble? Use it. Troublesome group coming up? Use it, drop into PFF to avoid the alpha.
Force Bubble - Wide radius, but mein gott... area denial, mob repositioning, repel to affect KB-resistant mobs?
You have quite a toolkit in there. The adjustments I could see making could all be done (such as Detention Field becoming a toggle) again without violating the area rule. I've seen other suggestions to tack on a secondary effect (like a -def to the enemies - which my teammates would hate, as I'd fire off Repulsion Bomb and yell "-Def from above!") but again - no cottage rule violation there.
You're looking at tweaks and adjustments.
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OK, full stop.|
Originally Posted by Draeth Darkstar
Propel is a strong case for Cottage Rule not being totally infallible, and that's all I was arguing. A rule that is automatically absolute denies the possibility of it ever being wrong, and that is nothing short of foolish.
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It does not say it is infalible. Nor do the devs, and I don't, either. It does not state that no power that comes up will ever have to be changed that dramatically.
It IS, however, a point where the devs stand and have to exhaust other possibilities or have a *very* convincing case (and be able to answer "Why did it get to live this way if it's so bad?") for such a major change... when most of the powers that HAVE been fixed in the last seven plus years have done so without violation.
Among other things, it's a promise of powerset stability and gameplay experience stability. Yes, they *can* tweak things - animation time, damage or other values - and they've done so consistently throughout the game's history. And at times they've made some fairly big changes (IH from a toggle to a click, and - what, three different versions of MoG, just to pick on /regen?) But the *basic purpose* of those powers was still there.
To take it out of the game for a bit -
It's like having a house and making changes to it. You don't tear it down because you want a different color - you apply different paint. You tear down or add walls, sometimes even another room or story. You rewire. You add network cabling. But the foundation of that house stays the same.
You don't tear it down to dirt unless there's something so fundamentally wrong with the house there's no other way to fix it. Some of the repairs might be extensive, yes - but the foundation's still there.
As far as propel -
One of the things some people complain about with on controllers is damage. Not everyone's a farming fire/kin, and I don't think anyone would call my ice/emp or earth/ff a powerleveling monster. Propel has a niche - fairly decent single target damage. Would you rather use IT (and lift!) on a +level boss, or just keep cycling hold-immob and whittling away?
Adjusting Propel's time would make it (obviously) cycle much faster, and definitely increase its usefulness. You'd be using it more often, on more targets. Given the base amount of Control Gravity has (not to mention a pet that also has a fair number of controls itself to help stack,) I just don't see a justification for a major change to what Propel does. Timing, yes. Fundamental change, no.
I've already been through this once in another thread today, but
Force Bolt - Limited use as a single-target positioning tool, but most targets that you'd actually care to position single-target are the ones that are resistant to KB anyway. Maybe if it had an infrigidate-level debuff it'd be a good first power.
Personal FF - This falls on the 'extremely situational' end of the spectrum I mentioned. It's a good power when you need it, but... really, I main a Force Fielder and if I use this power once a play session it's having a good day.
Detention Field - I may be willing to concede on an area phase being useful with some mechanical alterations, but a single target one, in my opinion, would need to either be capable of locking down an EB in one go or having a substantially shorter recharge time than Detention Field's insane full minute baseline for me to even be willing to call it situationally useful. The ability to lock down one minion or lieutenant is horribly mediocre considering that a problematic one is just as easily killed in mere seconds. I would personally like to see it turned into a toggled single-target hold. That would be an interesting and useful power.
Repulsion Field - This power is so situational it's hardly a thought to skip over in a set that doesn't have Force Bubble. It suffers from Propel syndrome - it's a much worse version of a tool the set already has. Basically irredeemable.
Repulsion Bomb - At a whopping 40% chance for mag 2 stun, this power isn't a reliable crowd control, even on minions, it's damage is subpar, and it's recharge is long even for a targetted AoE.The only useful feature of this power is it's knockdown, and, again, in my opinion - that isn't enough of a redeeming quality to make it worth a power slot. It could be saved with some severe number tweaks.
Force Bubble - Like PFF, when you need it it's nice to have, but... you really don't need it very often. At all. I actually have this one in my build, but I only ever use it on phase 2 BAF. That's pretty insanely situational.
@Draeth Darkstar
Virtue [Heroes, Roleplay], Freedom [Villains], Exalted [All Sides, Roleplay]
Code:
I24 Proc Chance = (Enhanced Recharge + Activation Time) * (Current PPM * 1.25) / 60*(1 + .75*(.15*Radius - 0.011*Radius*(360-Arc)/30)) Single Target Radius = 0. AoE Non-Cone Arc = 360.
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The rule itself may not say it is infallible, but that is unfortunately how it is more often than not regarded by the community, which may color the attitude toward it in the way mine is. Just about any suggestion for a fundamental power change is immediately and thoughtlessly shot down with 'Cottage Rule.' |
Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
OK, full stop.
It does not say it is infalible. Nor do the devs, and I don't, either. It does not state that no power that comes up will ever have to be changed that dramatically. |
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Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
As far as propel -
One of the things some people complain about with on controllers is damage. Not everyone's a farming fire/kin, and I don't think anyone would call my ice/emp or earth/ff a powerleveling monster. Propel has a niche - fairly decent single target damage. Would you rather use IT (and lift!) on a +level boss, or just keep cycling hold-immob and whittling away? |
@Draeth Darkstar
Virtue [Heroes, Roleplay], Freedom [Villains], Exalted [All Sides, Roleplay]
Code:
I24 Proc Chance = (Enhanced Recharge + Activation Time) * (Current PPM * 1.25) / 60*(1 + .75*(.15*Radius - 0.011*Radius*(360-Arc)/30)) Single Target Radius = 0. AoE Non-Cone Arc = 360.
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Step one, find out if the person saying that *actually* is referring to it properly. |
Originally Posted by Draeth Darkstar
The rule itself may not say it is infallible, but that is unfortunately how it is more often than not regarded by the community, which may color the attitude toward it in the way mine is. Just about any suggestion for a fundamental power change is immediately and thoughtlessly shot down with 'Cottage Rule.'
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Step two, see if the change you want violates it. If you're tweaking - from minor (damage, etc.) to somewhat major (click to toggle or vice versa,) it probably doesn't. Though you may still be affecting others negatively.
Community regard... *shrug* isn't always right. If it were, well, we wouldn't get Heavies in Rikti invasions when people used shadow fall.
However, the flip side of that is this - a *fundamental* change to a power is going to affect someone ELSE's gameplay negatively. And what irritates the hell out of me with some people making these suggestions is the attitude that the people affected should just "Stop crying and suck it up."
I'll argue, in many cases, against wholesale power changes because the ones suggested are detrimental - or the "problem" isn't so bad that it needs to have a power completely and utterly destroyed. And that the playstyle, and player investment in the *current* powers, would get thrown by the wayside. When you do that, the playerbase loses faith, and you lose subscriptions - which, frankly, leads to a dead game. Even F2P wouldn't put up with that, done thoughtlessly.
And of course a lot of what some people are going to label a "fundamental" change... isn't. It's a tweak of some magnitude. It's adjusting a secondary effect. You still should consider what it would do to *everyone else* - after all, you aren't everyone, and yes, people DO like the power or set as it is *right now* because of one reason or another.
(Edit re: Propel - I still think it would just need to be sped up. Then again, Dominators are a whole other issue - I think something SHOULD have been done before it was introduced over there, as while controllers aren't typically known as high-damage, and Propel helps there, Doms have an entire secondary dedicated to making your enemies into finely ground hamburger.)
My only Controller is a Gravity/FF. I feel like both sides of him are being insulted. 
PS: I never really had a problem controlling with my Gravity Controller. Though I do wish there was one more soft AoE Control, like a palced field where gravity goes wacky and any enemy inside gets bounced up and down, or something. That would be helpful.
Also, the only problem with Propel, and most of Gravity, is the animation times. If those were cut down, the set would be vastly improved. Maybe not completely fixed, but definitely improved.
We often sit and think of you,
We often speak your name;
There is nothing left to answer,
But your photo in the frame.
-Anon.
Removed!
"The bird of Hermes is my name. Eating my wings to make me tame." -The Ripley Scroll
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