Contradictory Info on Premium Access to Incarnates
By
Amy_Amp,
Posted on: 2011-06-23 08:25 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
Quote:
City of Heroes Freedom has made je_saist speechless and Johnny_Butane an optimist. Excuse me while I go check and see if I can still do long division.
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Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane
People have a really eff'd up perspective.
NOW: You stop paying them money each month, you lose access to your Incarnate powers, Mastermind and...oh...EVERYTHING. Because they cut you off from the server. You can have paid all you want for Going Rogue. You don't pay the monthly sub, you don't get to use it. All those costume Boosters you paid for? Worthless without the game. FUTURE: You stop paying them money each month you lose access to your Incarnate powers, Mastermind and some other things...but you get to keep access to a bunch of other stuff, including the servers. As opposed to NOW where you retain access to NOTHING if you stop paying. Having access to some things while not paying is better than having access to nothing while not paying. Period. |
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
City of Heroes Freedom has made je_saist speechless and Johnny_Butane an optimist. Excuse me while I go check and see if I can still do long division.
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LOL, this. ^_^
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Hang on while I come up with something outrageous to say.|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
City of Heroes Freedom has made je_saist speechless and Johnny_Butane an optimist. Excuse me while I go check and see if I can still do long division.
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Ok got it:
Instead of making Controllers the 'blue' VIP AT, make Tankers. They're more of a counterpart to Masterminds in some respects anyways. Also, Statesman=Tanker, Recluse=Mastermind; it just makes sense. Then give Tankers a damage boost and MMs a HP boost.
Presto: Two premium ATs that can be 'better' because you pay for them, unlike cheapskate Brutes and Scrappers.
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Of course you do - you're a clockwork |
Originally Posted by Clockwork O1
we have a lot of moving parts going on here
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@Golden Girl
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I don't buy the "you lose everything by not paying now" argument. The fact that you don't lose everything when you stop paying when Freedom goes live alone is enough to refute it. Taking the "you lose everything" argument to its logical conclusion, there is no justification for free or premium players to retain anything at all. It just isn't a good argument.
"But people need to be able to play the game at some minimal level," you'll say. And I'll throw your own argument back at you, "Right now if you don't pay you lose everything, so it's fair!" Yes, a bad argument for sure.
I'm not saying to give the store away for free, so to speak. I'm just saying there's an opportunity here to offer a free and premium service that is heads and shoulders above everything else in the industry. Don't squander it.
I think it would be fair if premium players got the Alpha Slot, and VIPs got all the other slots as well.
And haven't I heard the new iTrials will be purchasable? What good would purchasing the iTrials be if they effectively give no rewards?
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
I have been advised that if you let your VIP status lapse you will lose access to these abilities. You won't lose the ability itself, however it will not be usable.
edited with correct information |
This is kind of understandable, as I was having trouble figuring out what would be different between VIP and Premium (free) for some of us long time players. However it does kinda go back on your word that we wouldn't lose anything we purchased, as the Incarnates were introduced with GR, and the two were announced together:
http://goingrogue.na.cityofheroes.co.../overview.html
Possible compromise: GR purchasers get to keep their Alpha Slot, and access to Apex TF and Tin Mage TF, and Mender Silos (for new Alpha Slots on new Chars). The other Trials were released later enough were you could kinda consider not part of GR (even though all the trials are Praetorian based).
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Incarnate content in only available to VIPs
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Originally Posted by Daemodand
And haven't I heard the new iTrials will be purchasable? What good would purchasing the iTrials be if they effectively give no rewards?
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
I thought blasters might be one of the locked ATs, since they have a bit of a learning curve. 
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Good.|
Originally Posted by Zwillinger
I have been advised that if you let your VIP status lapse you will lose access to these abilities. You won't lose the ability itself, however it will not be usable.
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Thank you for the answer.
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I still find the situation odd because if you let your become a premium and you paid for GR your not supposed to lose content that is in the game. From what i understand i will not lose all the features that came with issue 19 or 20 aside from the trial, though i've still paid for GR, why is that i have to lose this content too? I've paid for the ability to use it.
Pretty much i get all the auras from issue 19 and all the zone events from it as well but now because i'm not paying a monthly sub i no longer have access to the Tin Mage and Apex TFs, even though i have GR.
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Eh, as long as they don't bend their knees, it's a pretty smooth arc from "upright" to "faceplant". |
Originally Posted by StratoNexus
I thought blasters might be one of the locked ATs, since they have a bit of a learning curve.
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Not purchasable. Whatever was unlocked as a VIP/subscriber is basically 'greyed out' until you re-sub.|
Originally Posted by Haetron
To be clear, it's just a "Sub or you're out of luck" situation? Not even purchaseable on a per character basis with Points? Or is the jury still out on that?
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Originally Posted by Daemodand
And haven't I heard the new iTrials will be purchasable?
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Paragon Studios hasn't been as clear as they should be on that issue.|
Originally Posted by Elric
I still find the situation odd because if you let your become a premium and you paid for GR your not supposed to lose content that is in the game. From what i understand i will not lose all the features that came with issue 19 or 20 aside from the trial, though i've still paid for GR, why is that i have to lose this content too? I've paid for the ability to use it.
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For VIPs/subscribers, everything you've bought is yours and you have access to it.
For Premium, everything you've bought is yours and you *may or may not* have access to it.
If you don't have access to it, it's essentially 'greyed out' in that it is still there, but not accessible. If you jump back to VIP mode, it all is made accessible again.
If you don't have access to it as a Premium member, you may be able to buy access to it (e.g. more character slots), OR, you may never be able to buy access to it (e.g. Incarnate content).
Although, I'll wager that within a year into CoH:Freedom, they'll allow Incarnate Content to be purchasable for Premium.
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I don't think it's an eff'd up perspective to point out an inconsistency.|
Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane
People have a really eff'd up perspective.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane
NOW:
You stop paying them money each month, you lose access to your Incarnate powers, Mastermind and...oh...EVERYTHING. |
NOW:
You stop paying them money each month, you lose access to character slots you've bought, bonus packs you've bought, and...oh...EVERYTHING.
However, you WILL retain access to those things as a premium player, so that makes your rule inconsistent, too.
I think that what what everyone--people digesting this change and Paragon Studios--needs to realize is the "you won't lose anything you paid for" statement is a rule of thumb, not an etched-in-stone, legally binding contract. There may be exceptions out there on the edge, but generally speaking, if you paid for something specifically, then you will still have access to it.
Another example that could be rule-lawyered is the whole two-slots thing. I mean, I bought the game which gave me access to twelve slots per server, right? But if I lapse into Premiumdom, I don't still get those twelve slots, even though I paid for them! Yeah, but you didn't buy the game specifically for twelve slots, did you?
They might do well to start clarifying that you won't lose anything you paid extra for--i.e. anything outside what was included with City of Heroes, City of Villains, and Going Rogue. Of course, you'll gain access to most of the stuff that was included in the games, but not necessarily literally everything. I will agree that people shouldn't rules-lawyer dev or marketing statements, but I don't think it's necessary or helpful to rules-lawyer people who are confused about exactly who will have access to what, either.
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That what you are being given for free is more than what you currently get if you don't pay anything isn't a valid reason to demand more. If one day Starbucks starts handing out free coffees you aren't going to complain that they aren't letting you have free cookies too... Are you?
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They can't do that because they need to keep Tankers ungated so they can sell damage boosters to everyone who plays Tankers.
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Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane
Hang on while I come up with something outrageous to say.
Ok got it: Instead of making Controllers the 'blue' VIP AT, make Tankers. They're more of a counterpart to Masterminds in some respects anyways. Also, Statesman=Tanker, Recluse=Mastermind; it just makes sense. Then give Tankers a damage boost and MMs a HP boost. Presto: Two premium ATs that can be 'better' because you pay for them, unlike cheapskate Brutes and Scrappers. |
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I'd pay for the power that prevents two Tankers to be on the same team!
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
They can't do that because they need to keep Tankers ungated so they can sell damage boosters to everyone who plays Tankers.
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Seems kind of pointless with the Tanker damage cap being where it is. They can't really sell a booster that effects that, can they(?).|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
They can't do that because they need to keep Tankers ungated so they can sell damage boosters to everyone who plays Tankers.
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I am however, quite serious about swapping Controllers for Tankers on the VIP block.
-Removing Controllers from play leaves Dominators the only control AT, as opposed to the FOUR melee damage ATs that already step all over each other.
-Controllers are no more pet-heavy than Doms, and even some kinds of Defenders and Blasters.
-The aforementioned conceptual parity with Statesman and Recluse.
-Some Tanker players already act like they're better than everyone else. VIP AT status should appeal to them.
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I have to vote in on the whole losing Incarnate powers if you go premium. Some people like myself bought GR for those incarnate powers period. To strip us completely of them after telling us those who bought GR would have access to them is simply a bad decision.
I agree on if we were allowed to keep the alpha slot, the ability to access the alpha slot on new characters, and access to Tin Mage and Apex would be a fair compromise.
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http://www.change.org/petitions/ncso...city-of-heroes
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Theoretically, they could actually. I'm unaware of one, just to be clear, but its not theoretically impossible.
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Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane
Seems kind of pointless with the Tanker damage cap being where it is. They can't really sell a booster that effects that, can they(?).
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I'm... not particularly happy with that, since one of Going Rogue's selling points is that you get in with all the Incarnate stuff. I understand that VIPs need to have things F2P people don't have, but it seems like you can make that plenty appealing with other free stuff (the access to new story arcs and 400 "free" points is a huge one already).|
Originally Posted by Zwillinger
I have been advised that if you let your VIP status lapse you will lose access to these abilities. You won't lose the ability itself, however it will not be usable.
edited with correct information |
Heck, even letting the first few Incarnate powers work could be a good idea, as a step in to the system and to get people to want more... as well as keeping people happy that bought Going Rogue. I know playing for free is playing for free, it's just... cutting people out of these entirely doesn't really sit right, because of past setups where Going Rogue was needed for new Incarnate stuff, and because so much of the new game is going to be Incarnate stuff.
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Im not bothered with the loss of Incarnate stuff if I have to drop to premium due to financial issues. (Im staring down a layoff in less than a month, and the local job market is.. well, not strong)
I'm dissapointed with the swapping going around. Was, if you didn't buy GR and kept your sub up, you didn't get Incarnates. After freedom, if you didn't buy GR, you get it for free just for subbing, while people that did pay for GR lose incarnates if they drop sub? It just runs.. counter to the whole "if you paid for it, you keep it" initial statement, but Im not surprised, because there has to be something that gives an incentive to sub.
What I'm really saddened by is the flat out, "No you're not getting incarnates, and no, as a premium player, we won't let you repurchase access to them." I'd think that if they did it on a per character basis, they'd make quite a bit of money. Oh well.
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Does this include the Alpha slot, since it's earned and advanced through core content?
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
I have been advised that if you let your VIP status lapse you will lose access to these abilities. You won't lose the ability itself, however it will not be usable.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Softcapping an Invuln is fantastic. Softcapping a Willpower is amazing. Softcapping SR is kissing your sister.
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So sigged.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
City of Heroes Freedom has made je_saist speechless and Johnny_Butane an optimist. Excuse me while I go check and see if I can still do long division.
|
NOW:
You stop paying them money each month, you lose access to your Incarnate powers, Mastermind and...oh...EVERYTHING. Because they cut you off from the server. You can have paid all you want for Going Rogue. You don't pay the monthly sub, you don't get to use it. All those costume Boosters you paid for? Worthless without the game.
FUTURE:
You stop paying them money each month you lose access to your Incarnate powers, Mastermind and some other things...but you get to keep access to a bunch of other stuff, including the servers.
As opposed to NOW where you retain access to NOTHING if you stop paying.
Having access to some things while not paying is better than having access to nothing while not paying. Period.
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