I don't know much about farming, so this thread was an interesting read, thanks,
but the one thing that does catch my eye about L22 is that is where you can
begin to slot SO's.
In toons that I run normally, I notice a scaling effect (never quantified) at that
point where mobs seem, or may actually be, more difficult.
My speculation is that mobs ratchet up a bit there, probably due to the devs
expecting/anticipating players to start slotting SO's (a big jump in capability).
Not sure if that has any bearing here, but thought I'd mention it.
Regards,
4
I've been rich, and I've been poor. Rich is definitely better.
Light is faster than sound - that's why some people look smart until they speak.
For every seller who leaves the market dirty stinkin' rich,
there's a buyer who leaves the market dirty stinkin' IOed. - Obitus.
I think it's more like 20/21. The acc/tohit bonus for lower levels goes away. Damage scaling kicks in so lower damage ATs start to set into place with their lower damage compared to mobs hit points. Mobs are generally just harder to deal with. Level 21 has been and might be my most hated level in the game. The mobs are tougher and yet you are still using DOs.
DOs that are about to expire at that. 20 and 21 are indeed a special kind of hell for a lot of toons.
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They would expire at 24, but they are definitely on the low side for helping. Part of the reason I slot common IOs if I take the time since level 15s can be used until 22.|
Originally Posted by David_Yanakov
DOs that are about to expire at that. 20 and 21 are indeed a special kind of hell for a lot of toons.
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I got my SS/fire up to 33 after getting to 22 on lowbie maps and I got an invite for some runs on the cyborg mission. My Claws/fire is at 39. Based on the level 1 and level 3 lowbie maps I will easily give the edge to Claws and DB/fire for smoothest ride to 50. If a player wants a casual farmer that mostly just generates tickets and doesn't need to be a top end PLer, that would be my pick. If you want a top end farming workhorse, then by all means roll a SS/fire and just work your way to 28+ to at least get a second AoE going before taking on the more normal farm maps. For me, I would be more than ok with a Claws/fire being my main farmer.
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Actually, since you're capped at 1, /dark and /ele have an almost an equal advantage (only lower by one point of damage off the damage auras). These maps give great xp all the way to 50 due to how fast stuff dies, so any combination of claws or db with an armor set that has a damage aura will have an incredibly easy time getting to 50.|
Originally Posted by Amy_Amp
They would expire at 24, but they are definitely on the low side for helping. Part of the reason I slot common IOs if I take the time since level 15s can be used until 22.
I got my SS/fire up to 33 after getting to 22 on lowbie maps and I got an invite for some runs on the cyborg mission. My Claws/fire is at 39. Based on the level 1 and level 3 lowbie maps I will easily give the edge to Claws and DB/fire for smoothest ride to 50. If a player wants a casual farmer that mostly just generates tickets and doesn't need to be a top end PLer, that would be my pick. If you want a top end farming workhorse, then by all means roll a SS/fire and just work your way to 28+ to at least get a second AoE going before taking on the more normal farm maps. For me, I would be more than ok with a Claws/fire being my main farmer. |
But, yes, if you want a farmer, claws/fire is the way to go. It's been number crunched to beat out ss/fire in ambush maps due to how close enemies consistently are.
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No it hasn't. It's been number crunched to be better than SS in ambush maps assuming every attack can targetcap and you're constantly damage capped from reds. Any time Foot Stomp's extra larger area matters or you're under damage cap (and that is quite a lot of the time when farming), Super Strength is superior.|
Originally Posted by Seril
But, yes, if you want a farmer, claws/fire is the way to go. It's been number crunched to beat out ss/fire in ambush maps due to how close enemies consistently are.
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That said, Claws/Fire is a fine farmer and won't do you wrong. Just don't spread misinformation, okay?
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[edit: meh, not worth it |
Originally Posted by A Man In Black
No it hasn't. It's been number crunched to be better than SS in ambush maps assuming every attack can targetcap and you're constantly damage capped from reds. Any time Foot Stomp's extra larger area matters or you're under damage cap (and that is quite a lot of the time when farming), Super Strength is superior.
That said, Claws/Fire is a fine farmer and won't do you wrong. Just don't spread misinformation, okay? |
]I found the damage numbers myself courtesy of Bill Z Bubba. Given you enter at damage cap (inspiration crunching) and during the farm you're at least at around +100-200% extra damage from inspirations carried in and inspirations dropped in an ambush farm (the middle area Bill's chart doesn't take into account), Claws should leap up to being a little under or a little over the DPS of SS over the course of a fire ambush farm depending on the luck of your inspiration drops and how lazy you are (macros/binds to convert everything but red and purples to reds help substantially).
tl;dr Claws/Fire will probably be a little under the inf/min of a SS/Fire in an ambush farm, but barely enough to notice. Claws/Fire has the disadvantage of being slower than SS/Fire outside of AE (Demon Farms won't keep you at the target cap), but with the advantage that a Claws/Fire is now infinitely easier to level up solo.
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Originally Posted by joebartender
You can always give the baddies kb protection and craft yourself the handgrenade temp power to speed things up. Just buy everything you need in a stack of 10 to save time and work out the quickest trip to the crafting table and back.
Having a 2nd Aoe can be put to good use. Spin/Aura on the mob that your in and toss the nades at the other side of the room. Speeds things up a small bit. |
Just for giggles, I tried a run using a warshade with Nova form and Orbiting Death. If I was in human form the lack of fury and no taunt aura slowed the insp drop rate to to low to be sustainable. And the warehouse ceiling isnt high enough to hover blast safely, and the recharge on novas two aoes is too slow to guarantee insp drops. Brute really is the best for this.
What difficulty setting were you using? I just tried a run on my warshade at -1x8, and it wasn't exactly fast, but I had no problems surviving. Even if my purples ran out, the mobs would spend most of their time running around like morons instead of attacking, so I had plenty of time for more inspirations to drop.
Really, if the intent is levelling, it seems like comparing across ATs is meaningless. It doesn't matter how fast you can level a brute if you want to level a corrupter. For Warshade... I could see this being a workable way to get past a hard level or two.
Playing around at +0x8 on a new SS/Fire was highly amusing. 1-19 in no time.
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You're not racing other players; you're racing your inspiration durations. You need to kill as fast as possible before your inspirations wear off, and ideally you'll be killing fast enough to get enough inspirations to keep you alive for more inspirations to drop. If you're not killing fast enough, you'll get overwhelmed quickly.|
Originally Posted by Morganite
Really, if the intent is levelling, it seems like comparing across ATs is meaningless. It doesn't matter how fast you can level a brute if you want to level a corrupter. For Warshade... I could see this being a workable way to get past a hard level or two.
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I keep rolling little brutes to play with this. It kind of feels like COH: Arcade Edition.
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You are stuck at +0x8 with bosses diff setting on the level 1 map, so it's only great exp for a period of time. Make a level 3 map and it fairly evens back out.
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Originally Posted by Seril
Actually, since you're capped at 1, /dark and /ele have an almost an equal advantage (only lower by one point of damage off the damage auras). These maps give great xp all the way to 50 due to how fast stuff dies, so any combination of claws or db with an armor set that has a damage aura will have an incredibly easy time getting to 50.
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My point was that on warshade/dark nova, I was killing fast enough to stay alive. Probably would have been faster if I'd had inspiration combine macros, but I didn't. (Partly because I wasn't sure what I'd need to keep alive... turns out I could afford to turn a lot more stuff into reds than I could on some other characters. Hovering really makes a difference.)|
Originally Posted by A Man In Black
You're not racing other players; you're racing your inspiration durations. You need to kill as fast as possible before your inspirations wear off, and ideally you'll be killing fast enough to get enough inspirations to keep you alive for more inspirations to drop. If you're not killing fast enough, you'll get overwhelmed quickly.
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So if Death_Adder wasn't getting enough inspirations, the difficulty was probably too high. ... Well, maybe not. Since I'm lead to believe the mobs on this map can't actually get higher level than 1. I didn't try it with bosses turned on, but I think it would have been okay. Maybe not flying high enough to avoid melee attacks? If I was getting those too, there probably wouldn't have been enough inspirations.
As I said before, the warehouse ceiling was too low to safely hover blast them. The beams hanging from the ceiling combined with the small platform the first ambush bomb is on allow the mobs to reach you with jump attacks. Since you are in range, you are again running into can you kill fast enough to suck enough insps to keep yourself a the def softcap, damage, and any heals. On my runs, no. If I had just a little more height in nova form It would be trivial, but the level geometry was working against me.
Well, I don't know then, because I was able to get high enough that they couldn't hit me with melee attacks. (Although they certainly jumped a lot. Amusingly, on the run where I did die, they kept jumping back and forth even when I wasn't there. Rivers of mobs flowing back and forth...)
I did have a much easier time keeping up on -1x8 than I did on 0x8, and I always had bosses off. With bosses on it probably wouldn't have worked.
A little over 4 hours of this arc and my brute is lvl 31. A useful tool indeed.
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It doesn't work well at all with bosses turned on.
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Originally Posted by Morganite
I did have a much easier time keeping up on -1x8 than I did on 0x8, and I always had bosses off. With bosses on it probably wouldn't have worked.
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I've tried it on a rad/elec and rad/fire blaster and a fire/dark corr. It doesn't work near as well for me. Neither blaster can kill anything fast enough. I may be tempted to try it on a claws/fire or DB/Fire scrapper just to see what happens.
Just a reminder to those who checking this thread. I've updated my mission to be a bit more steamlined. new map and new triggers. Arc ID: 503858. Let me know how it works out for you.
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I've made it on a rad/traps and fire/traps corr with the use of hand grenades. In fact, it went a lot smoother than when I tried it on a ss/fire brute, thanks to those grenades.|
Originally Posted by Neogumbercules
I've tried it on a rad/elec and rad/fire blaster and a fire/dark corr. It doesn't work near as well for me. Neither blaster can kill anything fast enough. I may be tempted to try it on a claws/fire or DB/Fire scrapper just to see what happens.
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Obviously, it just isn't comparable if you hand some grenades to the brute, especially since the corrs had to do it on x5 or so, max, if they didn't want to die horribly (I went with x4, personally. Just more comfortable overall).
The Rad was the smoothest ride on my side, the damage over time allowed me to use the inspirations while the mobs were dropping, ending in more inspirations drops overall.
Still, as long as you get a bunch of AoE powers and some hand grenades, you'll definitely get more exp than if you went mish-hunting solo (which, in my case, happens quite often on redside -at least this makes the run to 20 or so much easier and allows the switch to blueside for teams).
Also, I noticed that you can use hasten before zoning into the mission, allowing you to get more abilities off during the first couple of mins. This really helped the corrs tbh.
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I'm having the same problems
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Originally Posted by David_Yanakov
Gave the mission in the OP a try with a brand new /fire brute and even with buying trays full of medium inspiration rolls til I got all reds and purples between runs, I ended up at level 22 in as many minutes.
Strange thing is though, that as soon as I dinged 22, I started having serious trouble with it. All the numbers are effectively the same so I don't quite understand why but I faceplanted four times before managing to clear the room on the last run and gave it up to go level up through tip missions for awhile. |
i used the nades with my brute but I didn't like the KB. maybe I was doing it wrong. :P
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Well, if you have a damage aura, you probably shouldn't be using it near you (implying that you are -not sure by your post).|
Originally Posted by Mr_Vexx
i used the nades with my brute but I didn't like the KB. maybe I was doing it wrong. :P
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I personally like to throw it at those guys in the far back who think they're too good to come over and get beaten down
As for the ones having problems when reaching higher levels, I would suggest using a few oranges from time to time. I've found that it greatly helps as you -will- receive damage, enemies still have a 5% chance to hit you at the softcap and with that many trying, a few attacks certainly will hit.
Other than that, you can track one of your defenses (Powers - Combat Attributes - Defenses, right click one and choose track) and see where you're at, since it's certainly easy to see three purples as four (at least for me). Also nice to track down your damage bonus and see when you're at the cap and when you're not.
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yeah I never thought about it that way..I am a Claws/FA btw. i shall try that and see.
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Originally Posted by Narkor
Well, if you have a damage aura, you probably shouldn't be using it near you (implying that you are -not sure by your post).
I personally like to throw it at those guys in the far back who think they're too good to come over and get beaten down As for the ones having problems when reaching higher levels, I would suggest using a few oranges from time to time. I've found that it greatly helps as you -will- receive damage, enemies still have a 5% chance to hit you at the softcap and with that many trying, a few attacks certainly will hit. Other than that, you can track one of your defenses (Powers - Combat Attributes - Defenses, right click one and choose track) and see where you're at, since it's certainly easy to see three purples as four (at least for me). Also nice to track down your damage bonus and see when you're at the cap and when you're not. |
Went 1-15 in about an hour on my shiny new DB/Fire Brute. I've wanted to make on for a while now, but those early levels are just painful for melee toons. Or maybe I just suck at playing melee. Either way, I can slot DOs now and am enjoying my new character 
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Ah, made the change at lvl 22 and got trampled.