Keyes Island badges
For badges like these; I think the free server transfer when i21/freedom launches will be a good thing. Us badgers could transfer to a specific server (VIP one?), get the badges, then go home.
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Edit:
As I said above, it is not just about the badges, though that is bad enough. It is also about the deterministic method for getting Incarnate Components, if the badges are too hard to get, then the deterministic way to get around the random reward table might as well not exist.
Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters
That isn't, and should NEVER be the answer. Any developer(s) that think it IS the answer should be FIRED.
Edit: As I said above, it is not just about the badges, though that is bad enough. It is also about the deterministic method for getting Incarnate Components, if the badges are too hard to get, then the deterministic way to get around the random reward table might as well not exist. |
I didn't say it should be the answer (the dev's answer at least). It'd be an "answer" (workaround) for us though that play on either low pop. servers or just have a hard time finding people smart/fast enough to know what to do and when to do it.
I definitely agree that the badges could have been different for the Keyes trial and hopefully badges like these "won't happen again".....
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Hey badgers, I wrote up strategies for earning these badges on the ParagonWiki pages for them, if you could read them, critique them, add to them, that'd all be great. I think screenshots of the Obliteration Beam and Disintegration would be helpful.
Issue 16 made me feel like this.
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You did? That link shows none of them, just the badges and badge text. Do I have to click on something else?
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When I posted that link the strategies were written on the individual badge pages, but they got moved to their own pages since then. If someone could come up with a good way to link to the strategies pages on the MoKI badge page that'd be nice. I don't know any of the wiki's fancy formatting codes, all I can do is write content.
Issue 16 made me feel like this.
Warning: This poster likes to play Devil's Advocate.
When I posted that link the strategies were written on the individual badge pages, but they got moved to their own pages since then. If someone could come up with a good way to link to the strategies pages on the MoKI badge page that'd be nice. I don't know any of the wiki's fancy formatting codes, all I can do is write content.
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Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters
After running my own leagues for these badges this last weekend (and for the foreseeable future), I can't get a consistent group to fill a 12 player league. I'm talking planned in advanced, invites to players I know.
What that means is that I'm forced to take fillers. At which point I'm guessing as to the quality of players invited. If a server like Triumph can't support these badge runs, isn't that a blazing clue that the requirements are too high? That said, I'm going to keep at it until I get the badges, but I don't hold out any hope of getting them on other characters, and that makes the promised bonus uncommons & rare for getting the badges on this trial a lie for most characters. |
I'm not happy about how it had to be done.
I dealt with the "unknowns" by sending them to the hospital.
Most of the league was told to stay in the hospital and pretty much have the heavy hitters beat on AM. Only I was a bit late telling people to go to the hospital so a few more than I expected stayed out.
Two players stayed away from the main fight but attracted the Obliteration beam more than not. Only 1 of those got into Line of Sight of AM and got targeted with disintegration once.
So, yeah. We did it. I don't consider this badge to be anywhere near the term "fun". It wasn't fun as a leader asking players to sit on the sideline. It wasn't fun for those that were in the hospital. It wasn't fun for those of us battling AM.
Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters
Well, I helped a league get the Green Stuff badge on Triumph.
I'm not happy about how it had to be done. I dealt with the "unknowns" by sending them to the hospital. Most of the league was told to stay in the hospital and pretty much have the heavy hitters beat on AM. Only I was a bit late telling people to go to the hospital so a few more than I expected stayed out. Two players stayed away from the main fight but attracted the Obliteration beam more than not. Only 1 of those got into Line of Sight of AM and got targeted with disintegration once. So, yeah. We did it. I don't consider this badge to be anywhere near the term "fun". It wasn't fun as a leader asking players to sit on the sideline. It wasn't fun for those that were in the hospital. It wasn't fun for those of us battling AM. |
Congrats?!
I mean, get a badge however ya want but...I don't really see that helping anyone. No one gets to experience/try to dodge the Oblit. beam by standing in the hospital.
I know on the failed runs we had on Liberty; even after we failed the Avoids the Green Stuff badge, we (most of the times) still had people avoid/dodge the beam just for practice.
Yes I know it's hard to get people to work together/blah, blah but...just saying; trying to encourage you (others) to keep trying (took 2+ yrs for me to get MoSTF due to my own fault but still ).
But to each their own.
Leader of The LEGION/Fallen LEGION on the Liberty server!
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Congrats?!
I mean, get a badge however ya want but...I don't really see that helping anyone. No one gets to experience/try to dodge the Oblit. beam by standing in the hospital. I know on the failed runs we had on Liberty; even after we failed the Avoids the Green Stuff badge, we (most of the times) still had people avoid/dodge the beam just for practice. Yes I know it's hard to get people to work together/blah, blah but...just saying; trying to encourage you (others) to keep trying (took 2+ yrs for me to get MoSTF due to my own fault but still ). But to each their own. |
I do Keyes instructional runs. And after 20-odd badge attempts, I switched to putting people in the hospital. If someone was still caught, everyone in the hospital were told to come out and practice.
During the 9th attempt after starting to send people to the bench (hospital), we got the badge with most players in the hospital. So, yeah, it worked.
And if you think I'm being harsh about this, I suggest that you read Arcanaville's take on it. I think she is far more qualified to rate this particular trial as she was a participant in most of the 9 attempts I ran this weekend.
Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters
I had people on the team that I know so well that could NOT, even after 200 runs (if they did it) still wouldn't be able to dodge the obliteration beam. It isn't a guess on my part.
I do Keyes instructional runs. And after 20-odd badge attempts, I switched to putting people in the hospital. If someone was still caught, everyone in the hospital were told to come out and practice. During the 9th attempt after starting to send people to the bench (hospital), we got the badge with most players in the hospital. So, yeah, it worked. And if you think I'm being harsh about this, I suggest that you read Arcanaville's take on it. I think she is far more qualified to rate this particular trial as she was a participant in most of the 9 attempts I ran this weekend. |
One part I noticed from her post though:
The trial doesn't *force* you to sit people in the hospital; I'm sure its theoretically possible to eventually get sixteen people to get the badge while all simultaneously engaged with AM. |
He was watching the clock and would say, "stop attacking AM!" when he was at 75 HP (or whenever that first Time Freeze is), after a few failed attempts, he changed it so that he did that "STOP ATTACKING" macro around 80 or 82 HP gave more people the ability to read and comprehend and then follow what he said.
We had about 14 (maybe 16 once or twice?) people get the 2 badges and when the leader (tanker) said "stop attacking" or something, we usually stopped attacking AM and disengaged him.
Don't get me wrong there were times when he said, "stop attacking and wait for oblit. beam" that we didn't stop in time and then we almost failed from the time freeze/disintegration combo....but luckily AM was just close enough to the regen station we were able to recover and get healed up/move away from the oblit. beam.
I'm not sure if I'm conveying what I'm trying to say but...maybe I should just say that I'm really surprised how fast AM goes down...there are a lot of times when we aren't attacking him and just are running around dodging the Oblit. beam.
We usually don't do pets either (even MMs; MMs can join the league and use pets; just not for the final fight since sometimes pets are harder to control) but we bring out pets (lore/etc) for the last bit of the AM fight (after he regens to full for the 3rd time).
There were at least 2 really, really close calls where Lore pets were attacking the regen terminals and blowing them up...heh...lots of KILL PETS!!! STOP ATTACKING THE TERMINALS! spam going up then One time a terminal had like 5 HP left (on the 3rd station too ).
Don't get me wrong it is obviously harder to get 16+ people to dodge the Oblit. beam than 12 and so on....but...maybe, explain that when Oblit. beam starts, just move out of the way and don't worry about attacking AM? Maybe you're doing that already but .... *Shrugs*
Edit:
Again, not trying to "talk down to you" as you are a fellow avid badger but...we have also said, "don't use long animating powers when you see the "oblit. beam in 5 seconds"" message (a macro from the leader).
We've had at least 2 failed runs because people were using powers like Hurl/etc and just didn't move in time.
Leader of The LEGION/Fallen LEGION on the Liberty server!
SSBB FC: 2062-8881-3944
MKW FC: 4167-4891-5991
Don't get me wrong it is obviously harder to get 16+ people to dodge the Oblit. beam than 12 and so on....but...maybe, explain that when Oblit. beam starts, just move out of the way and don't worry about attacking AM? Maybe you're doing that already but .... *Shrugs*
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I am the consummate don't-tell-people-how-to-play player. When I'm saying "lets just duo the son of a gun and get outta here" (we ultimately needed five) its crossed a line for me. And I'm not saying everyone who enjoys Keyes or even this specific badge is wrong: I'm just saying I normally cut the devs enormous slack, and even though I can do what needs to be done and I can do it repeatedly and I already have the badge so its a done deal for me, I think this one is, if not too difficult, then too difficult too soon for the playerbase.
I should mention, in my opinion every single person on the trial league that awarded that badge earned that badge on Sunday. They earned it by doing what trial league members are supposed to do: listen to the trial leader, and try to do what they ask in a manner well enough to earn the rewards being sought. They all did that, and we all got the badge. Its just unsettling to me that for two-thirds of the league, the instruction we asked them to execute was "die, and wait in the hospital." But they all did what was required, on top of running Keyes dozens of times before in many cases, and that's all we can ask of any league: they do their best to follow instructions and help get the rewards for everyone.
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I am the consummate don't-tell-people-how-to-play player. When I'm saying "lets just duo the son of a gun and get outta here" (we ultimately needed five) its crossed a line for me. And I'm not saying everyone who enjoys Keyes or even this specific badge is wrong: I'm just saying I normally cut the devs enormous slack, and even though I can do what needs to be done and I can do it repeatedly and I already have the badge so its a done deal for me, I think this one is, if not too difficult, then too difficult too soon for the playerbase. ... |
I would agree that the 2 badges are pretty ridiculous to get at the moment. Maybe in the future the devs will change some things to make it at least reasonable to get them.
I know another thing that makes it hard is when people are flying/hovering...very hard to see the Oblit. beam if it targets a flying person.
And if they added a timer and/or the person who is being disintegrated to the trial UI, that'd help the Loves a Challenge badge out a bit.
Also if Time Freeze stopped all counters, that'd be nice too.
Leader of The LEGION/Fallen LEGION on the Liberty server!
SSBB FC: 2062-8881-3944
MKW FC: 4167-4891-5991
For what it is worth I posted this to Liberty Server, but was told I might spread it around to other threads.
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=270176
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Liberty
Blue Stonefist Lvl 50 Stone/Stone/Stone Tanker
After being on several successful and many, many unsuccessful attempts at those two badges, it is possible for the entire league to participate and get the badges.
However, failure is ridiculously easy. During the fight, you are talking in the neighborhood of 30-40 oblit beam attacks (if you are going for both badges at once in hopes of getting at least one of them). Even very competent players can easily blow this only once in 30 tries and it only takes one player to do it once. Most of our failures were like that - an otherwise good and capable player blinked at the wrong time. I've blinked at the wrong time and gotten away with it, other times, I was the jerk that ruined it for everyone.
I think one of the reasons for the relative lack of Keyes runs, for badges or not, is the extreme repetition of patterns and cycles on both the macro and micro levels.
With BAF and Lambda, at least you can blunder into a badge or two. In Keyes every single badge requires high levels of coordination and competence.
Everyone who wears either of these badges or the MO badge has earned it. Through as much perseverance and resolve as through any level of skill or competence. We did not employ the method, but that goes to folks on "the bench" as well. No one wants to just stand around in the safe zone while others do the risk and work required.
Actually I might have an alternative to benching players in the hospital: Decoy Duty.
You might ask "What is Decoy Duty?" Well I haven't fully tested this out, but Decoy Duty is to be out of the hospital, away from everyone else (no being above another player) and away from the truck depot (out of line of sight is best). Have one of the "decoys" do a 5 minute warning of the Obliteration Beam so everyone can look at the ground and be prepared to move. If they are targeted, they'll need to move out of the way.
Having another decoy or hospital sitter call out health warnings at 85-55-25 health.
I still don't like this idea as it places the "decoys" firmly in the role of a sidekick. However it is an alternative to sitting on the bench, so to speak.
Oh, the Line of Sight thing. Apparently the only people targeted by Disintegration are those in Line of Sight of Anti-Matter. So if you aren't visible to him, you won't get disintegrated.
Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters
Actually I might have an alternative to benching players in the hospital: Decoy Duty.
You might ask "What is Decoy Duty?" Well I haven't fully tested this out, but Decoy Duty is to be out of the hospital, away from everyone else (no being above another player) and away from the truck depot (out of line of sight is best). Have one of the "decoys" do a 5 minute warning of the Obliteration Beam so everyone can look at the ground and be prepared to move. If they are targeted, they'll need to move out of the way. Having another decoy or hospital sitter call out health warnings at 85-55-25 health. I still don't like this idea as it places the "decoys" firmly in the role of a sidekick. However it is an alternative to sitting on the bench, so to speak. Oh, the Line of Sight thing. Apparently the only people targeted by Disintegration are those in Line of Sight of Anti-Matter. So if you aren't visible to him, you won't get disintegrated. |
Been trying the decoy duty, but unfortunately sometimes the decoys still get nailed. Practice makes perfect I guess....
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However, there is a sliding scale of reaction time players seem to possess.
- Those with good reaction time and required skills (DPS/Healing/possibly debuffing, or a combination of the 3) should be attacking AM.
. - Those with "okay" reaction time or that don't have the required skills could be decoys.
. - Those that have issues going the wrong way, those that continually get caught in the beams, and those with poor reaction times should stay in the hospital and call out the timers.
Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters
...Those that have issues going the wrong way, those that continually get caught in the beams, and those with poor reaction times should stay in the hospital and call out the timers....
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I just want to point out that having the people that are poor/have poor reaction times might not be the best at calling out the timers for things....
I was curious about the Disintegration though...nice to know it's LoS based.
Does anyone know if the Oblit. beam is truly random on who it picks or is there some sort of logic behind it by chance?
I'd guess random but....
Leader of The LEGION/Fallen LEGION on the Liberty server!
SSBB FC: 2062-8881-3944
MKW FC: 4167-4891-5991
Just a thought..
I lead a team where all that attacked AM were Pets..either MM pets or Lore pets ...to great success, but alas the "pet bug" was in place and we were not awarded the badge (although I do believe a few people petitioned and were awarded the badge)
I am refering to the "Avoids the Green Stuff" by the way, as the Lore pets will attack anything, not caring if its a terminal or not (alot of people are not aware that Lore pets do have MM controls and just let them be aggressive to attack everything) so a "Loves a Challenge" badge may not be in the scope of this strategy.
If I remember correctly, using this strategy went pretty smoothly. All you had to do was target AM, set your pets to attack him, then just watch out for the Oblit. beam (and of course Dis., but just going for the "Avoids.." badge it didnt matter if you died)
Through the course of my trying for this badge we discovered you HAD to have 12 to start the trial, but 1 could drop and you could still continue. If more than 1 dropped you ran the risk of the trial "freezing" (for lack of a better term) and be unable to continue. So I DEFINATELY concur that less people make trying for this badge EXPONENTIALLY easier (although it is alot of fun with a full league too, just not for serious badging IMO)
Just my 2 cents, your results may vary
On the subject of hiding in the hospital:
I didn't feel slighted by being asked to hide in the hospital. In all my time badge hunting I've done things that could be considered cheap, like setting up ambush farms for the now-defunct AE Test defeat badges, trading pillboxes in Recluse's Victory, or hovering over Director 11's head while my pets slaughter him. But any time I feel like I'm doing it wrong, I remember that it's no different than hunting for bosses in the places they spawn the most and going after the gray ones because the put up the least fight.
That's what we badge hunters do: we always search for and use the fastest, easiest way to earn a badge.
Issue 16 made me feel like this.
Warning: This poster likes to play Devil's Advocate.
[QUOTE=Vanden;3851141That's what we badge hunters do: we always search for and use the fastest, easiest way to earn a badge.[/QUOTE]
I take exception to that..I call it efficiency
Hi everyone, Frostwork has an effect on disintegration?
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The league organiser did a great job imo with a bunch of Keyes Virgins (myself included). I was a little surprised when we got the "Failed Mission" message since were were in the process of taking down the 3rd bunker. Is there a timer? We had a couple of people make lame excuses and quit but if anything that made it easier
Still I look forward to trying again
Hmm, yes there is a timer for the whole thing. I'm kind of surprised a little bit, the 3rd reactor has the longest time (I think 28 or 30 minutes to do it).
Keep at it and you'll get the hang of it!
Leader of The LEGION/Fallen LEGION on the Liberty server!
SSBB FC: 2062-8881-3944
MKW FC: 4167-4891-5991