Raise NPC health ?


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Posted

With the new mega judgement and possible rain nerfs as well as all of the other combined alpha powers maybe the NPC health for anything below bosses should be raised. This would bring tanking and control back. It would slow down the pace of the game a bit and make grouping a bit more viable. Tweaking player powers doesn't fix anything and just ruins the fun. You can always go plus 1, 2 , 3 or 4 if you want. My thought is by raising the health slightly it balances the game play no matter what level you play at.

Just don't nerf anything after people have put so much time or effort in one direction.


 

Posted

What about players who do not have "mega judgement" (or even no I-powers at all)?

There are some of us out here - more than a few from reading these forums. Not everyone has been grinding thru the 2 trials.


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Posted

*sniff*

Smells like a suggestion.


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Posted

Buffing the enemies has the same identical effect as nerfing the players.

Scratch that ; it actually nerfs the player further, as those without incarnate abilities suffer a net loss at best.

So, in your attempt to stop the nerfs you're essentially advocating to nerf twice harder. Good job.


 

Posted

Why do people have such issue with the game difficulty? I find it fine as it is. When I get to the point where I can plow through waves of enemies solo, that's when I am actually having fun and feel powerful. I already find it strange that enemies have more health than we do (for the most part) and do more damage with a brawl than I can ever dish out with a fireball. Raising the health cap would not be something I would enjoy personally.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nihilii View Post
Buffing the enemies has the same identical effect as nerfing the players.

Scratch that ; it actually nerfs the player further, as those without incarnate abilities suffer a net loss at best.

So, in your attempt to stop the nerfs you're essentially advocating to nerf twice harder. Good job.
This. I love how many hoops people try and jump through to avoid advocating a nerf to player characters, lest they upset someone with the notion. But sensible balance dictates that you fix the outlier, not change everything else around it.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by master_finese View Post
With the new mega judgement and possible rain nerfs as well as all of the other combined alpha powers maybe the NPC health for anything below bosses should be raised. This would bring tanking and control back. It would slow down the pace of the game a bit and make grouping a bit more viable. Tweaking player powers doesn't fix anything and just ruins the fun. You can always go plus 1, 2 , 3 or 4 if you want. My thought is by raising the health slightly it balances the game play no matter what level you play at.

Just don't nerf anything after people have put so much time or effort in one direction.
Besides it being a bad idea for people that are not built to handle mobs like that, it would affect the people who do build to handle mobs like that not at all. How exactly would that bring tanking and control back? More importantly, where did tanking and control go?


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by IanTheM1 View Post
This. I love how many hoops people try and jump through to avoid advocating a nerf to player characters, lest they upset someone with the notion. But sensible balance dictates that you fix the outlier, not change everything else around it.
How is this for a hoop?

Adjust the NPCs unresistable damage resistance to resist the iPowers more than they do regular powers.
That should fix those nasty Incarnates without neutering the non-Incarnates.

*nods*


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by master_finese View Post
With the new mega judgement and possible rain nerfs as well as all of the other combined alpha powers maybe the NPC health for anything below bosses should be raised. This would bring tanking and control back. It would slow down the pace of the game a bit and make grouping a bit more viable. Tweaking player powers doesn't fix anything and just ruins the fun. You can always go plus 1, 2 , 3 or 4 if you want. My thought is by raising the health slightly it balances the game play no matter what level you play at.

Just don't nerf anything after people have put so much time or effort in one direction.
Lisa puts her lemonade down and stares at the screen. If you increase NPC health, you will be nerfing not only my builds, but the builds of everyone who is not incarnated out.

So, what you are saying is you don't want the devs to nerf your builds, but nerfing the builds of those of us not incarnated out is a totally fine thing to do?

Tell me I misunderstood your meaning due to being tired and frazzled due to my kitten stealing my chicken dinner....while I was pouring my lemonade, she struck with such stealth a Stalker would be impressed.

Lisa


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Twisted Toon View Post
How is this for a hoop?

Adjust the NPCs unresistable damage resistance to resist the iPowers more than they do regular powers.
That should fix those nasty Incarnates without neutering the non-Incarnates.

*nods*
I agree with you but that's suggesting too much from the devs. Heck they nerf powersets to please the pvp bunch and the whiners.

Aside from that just add another level of difficulty for those that feel their incarnates make their toons "too" uber.


 

Posted

If they had new iMobs where NPCs had a decent chunk of extra HP (maybe +500 or so) i would totally support that. However, the entire idea of the incarnate powers (or at least as far as i can tell) is that the rest of the game doesnt get harder.

Also, judgement is lucky to even take out +3 minions.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by ultrawatt View Post
Also, judgement is lucky to even take out +3 minions.
Apples and Oranges. He's talking about Mega Judgement. You are talking about plain old vanilla judgement.


 

Posted

Why don't you just increase the difficulty barriers? x5 I imagine wouldn't be feasible, so how about the amount of NPC's you can take on? I wouldn't mind that; would make me feel pretty good going up to the Fateweaver to be able to choose "I think I am as good as or better than 10/12/15 players." and pull it off.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neo_G_Dice View Post
Why don't you just increase the difficulty barriers? x5 I imagine wouldn't be feasible, so how about the amount of NPC's you can take on? I wouldn't mind that; would make me feel pretty good going up to the Fateweaver to be able to choose "I think I am as good as or better than 10/12/15 players." and pull it off.
Because most maps are designed with the maximum spawn size of 8 players in mind and even then some of the smaller indoor ones struggle to keep the spawns apart on full teams. Allowing more than x8 would seriously break a lot of them.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Twisted Toon View Post
How is this for a hoop?

Adjust the NPCs unresistable damage resistance to resist the iPowers more than they do regular powers.
That should fix those nasty Incarnates without neutering the non-Incarnates.

*nods*
Well. That's a difficult matter there. For damaging powers [Judgement, Interface/Reactive, Lore] all they'd really have to do is change the damage type to a new special damage type.

For others though, that provide more secondary benefits to the player [Alpha, Destiny, Lore] those will still provide a bonus to the player without really directly impacting the NPC, so you'd still have to raise the 'general' statistics of the mob in question to overcome those.

Another awkward point is the matter of debuffs, which is the remainder of Interface, I suppose it'd be possible to have those hit on another special defense type, but just still feels awkward. And it's kind of hard for them to introduce new defense types [see Toxic ].

To be honest, I think the goal may be better pursued through an Incarnate Off option in the difficulty settings.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by master_finese View Post
With the new mega judgement and possible rain nerfs as well as all of the other combined alpha powers maybe the NPC health for anything below bosses should be raised. This would bring tanking and control back. It would slow down the pace of the game a bit and make grouping a bit more viable. Tweaking player powers doesn't fix anything and just ruins the fun. You can always go plus 1, 2 , 3 or 4 if you want. My thought is by raising the health slightly it balances the game play no matter what level you play at.

Just don't nerf anything after people have put so much time or effort in one direction.
Yes, wonderful idea, make it completely impossible for low damage characters to solo anything without Incarnate powers. THAT will win people over.

Can you imagine how pissed Ice and Earth controllers would be if you increased the HP of enemies? It takes long enough to kill anything with those sets already, why would you want to make it take even LONGER?!

Incarnate abilities were designed to make us more powerful. If you return things to the status quo by increasing NPC HP, all you are doing is penalizing those players who DON'T have Incarnate powers (there are a lot of them).

If you are feeling too powerful, increase the difficulty of your missions. Don't call for a nerf that will make things harder for others when you can fix the issue yourself without changing anything about the game.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect View Post
If you are feeling too powerful, increase the difficulty of your missions. Don't call for a nerf that will make things harder for others when you can fix the issue yourself without changing anything about the game.
Or, you know, refrain from using your incarnate powers...


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Posted

I see a potential compromise, but I'm not sure if the system would support it, by expanding the difficulty sliders and adding some extra stuff.

The Team Leader, if they're Alpha Unlocked, can set a mission as an Incarnate Challenge, here's a few ideas to mix and match.

1: Instead of Lts and Bosses having 1 minion with them, they'd have two.
2: All spawns would have a Lt or Boss.
(this means a +0/x8 would have 16 minions and 8 Lts or Bosses, not the usual ~20 minions and 4 Lts/Bosses)
3: Boss mobs would have Leadership.
4: Minions would have substantial additional HP, a medium amount for Lts and slightly more HP for bosses. (maybe additional resist/defense too?)
5: Possibly add in regular bosses with an EB ranks as regular spawn enemies?

EDIT: This gives the Incarnate players the option of using their full power, while not forcing non-Incarnates to suffer (unless they choose to run along for this sort of meatgrinder ^_^).


 

Posted

I'm still scratching my head about what we are really trying to *fix* here.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chyll View Post
I'm still scratching my head about what we are really trying to *fix* here.
Exactly. The incarnate content was supposed to give us the ability to become stronger which it did.


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Posted

I know I've upped the difficulty on my Incarnate characters to levels they could not solo before they were Incarnates (well, at the point where I am comfortable... I don't like using inspirations or struggling for too long with every mob I face). The challenge level is now the same, even with the Incarnate powers: lo, they are more powerful and facing more than they could before, with the game becoming no easier!


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