Good Idea to shut down servers?
By
Ad Astra,
Posted on: 2011-05-22 21:09 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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So do I - there are always new players showing up |
Originally Posted by Clave_Dark_5
I find myself typing in the words "welcome to the game!" a fair amount.
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@Golden Girl
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We can't really declare that a big population likes low pop servers, we don't have that data. It's even possible that there's as many people liking low pop servers as there are people who can't leave their low pop because they still have friends there or they have personal bases they're fond of or they just got complacent and haven't really thought about moving.|
Originally Posted by Alvdraken
This game has a big population that likes low traffic servers for different reasons.
Personally, if you can make sure I get to keep all my bases/SGs, all my alts (at least 15+ per server per account), all my character slots and their names, I am all for a server merge |
I know for me, i'm staying on my low pop home server but not because i don't want a high pop server. I have several bases (3 each side) that i've been building up since CoV launch. So it's a real pain to give up 6 years of effort.
I'm not advocating a server merge, that is best left to the devs to determine if it's necessary or not.
But what i can see though, is that 12 of the 15 servers have typically around 300ish average or less concurrent unhidden players during peak times and if they merged 3 of those servers into 1, it would still be in the yellow range (usually won't see it go red till it exceeds 1100 +/- 100 unhidden).
Of course, i can't see the whole big picture, but from an outsider's perspective, that's a majority (80%) of the servers being under-utilized IMO.
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If this were set up like Aion (you may have a bunch of slots on each server, but can only make a total of 8 characters for the entire account,) that "can't leave their server" line may have merit. |
Originally Posted by Pebblebrook
We can't really declare that a big population likes low pop servers, we don't have that data. It's even possible that there's as many people liking low pop servers as there are people who can't leave their low pop because they still have friends there or they have personal bases they're fond of or they just got complacent and haven't really thought about moving.
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However, we're not. And it doesn't.
If you want to start on a new server, do so. Grab friends. Create an SG, get 20k Prestige per person for up to the first 15 characters. Add some praetorians for a Prestige bonus (100 prestige, was it?) Take advantage of Gleemail to send stuff over. Play with other people and invite them in.
There's nothing but *you* "tying" you to a server.
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True, just me and the 6 years i've put into my 6 bases. Reasons vary, but we don't know those reasons for the entire playerbase to determine the size of that segment of the population.
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Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
There's nothing but *you* "tying" you to a server.
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Oh yeah, what happened to CoH advertisements anyway? Alternatively, what happned to in-game ads? lol
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Freedom is the only NA Server I don't have any characters on. I would be be put out if any of the other servers got merged, since I have upwards of 18+ characters on some of them. I might even be put out enough to not play the game any more, depending on which of my characters got deleted because of the "hypothetical" server merge.
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Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
Also: If I WANTED to play on Freedom, I WOULD play on Freedom. The fact that I DON'T play on Freedom is pretty telling.
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There I was between a rock and a hard place. Then I thought, "What am I doing on this side of the rock?"
My Freedom slots are filled with retired alts I don't play anymore but I'm not willing to delete because I may want to play them again.
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Okay.... well, I'm a member of Paragon City Search And Rescue also and I disagree with your initial post. Does the fact that I'm a member of PCSAR make my opinion carry some special weight?|
Originally Posted by _Rial13_
This is probably the best reply I've heard:
"I feel ya. I fondly recall the days when Infinity would be full of life. It seemed you'd never pass Atlas without seeing at least 20 some odd players standing around. CC's all the time, broadcasts a plenty and blind invites like crazy. Those days are gone sadly. Getting some of the forum regulars to ADMIT that though is nearly impossible. Mainly because they are so 'head in the sand' with their own tiny tight nit groups that they don't even notice. When their long time SG's start leaving is when they realize times have changed. Years ago the easy answer about finding teams was forming them yourself. This just isn't as easy as it used to be. Though they wouldn't know because they only team with friends... See the pattern?  I miss those days. I'm a member of Paragon City Search and Rescue. We were formed alongside the Taxibots as a paramedic service for Heroes. We used to patrol Atlas and Hollows doing drive by heals and offering rez etc. Was so much fun. These services just aren't as needed in todays game though, so much of the old theme groups, the bots, PCSAR and the like are still around, we just aren't needed in those rolls nowdays. The claim that this game is instanced so it just feels empty holds no water either. This game has always been instanced. Doesn't change the fact that the streets are empty now... Anyways, just wanted to chime in and let you know you aren't alone in the feeling. Though I doubt a merge would do much to help. In fact, the grumpy ol vets are probably right about that one fact. Merging servers would be seen by players and industry at large as the death notice and I'd expect to see players jumping ship as a result. Alas, now that the endgame is here (and not for me) this game is heading into it's twilight. Hopefully this means they are hard at work on the follow up game though! I needs my Paragon after all. " |
As pointed out previously: the 'best' reply you've heard is one that agrees with you. I am shocked! Shocked, I say!
Paragon City Search And Rescue
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Thankfully.
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Originally Posted by _Rial13_
"I feel ya. I fondly recall the days when Infinity would be full of life. It seemed you'd never pass Atlas without seeing at least 20 some odd players standing around. CC's all the time, broadcasts a plenty and blind invites like crazy.
Those days are gone" |
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Doing a search via google it seems that this thread is the only place where that quote actually shows up. It suppose could have been from a pm or deleted thread. Since he started the topic twice there is no reason he couldn't have done other threads on it.
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Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
The odd thing about that is that no one made that post in either of the two threads the OP started on this topic.
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=261321 Sounds like he's just agreeing with himself. |
Don't count your weasels before they pop dink!
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Well, obviously anyone who doesn't totally agree with him is an unthinking, conformist, ignorant fool. After all, only people who totally agree with him show independent thought.|
Originally Posted by White Hot Flash
The best reply you heard was the only one that agreed with you....
Why'd you even bother to ask? |
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Ahh the internet.
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Originally Posted by Schismatrix
Well, obviously anyone who doesn't totally agree with him is an unthinking, conformist, ignorant fool. After all, only people who totally agree with him show independent thought.
<.< >.> ^.^ |
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Originally Posted by _Rial13_
The claim that this game is instanced so it just feels empty holds no water either. This game has always been instanced. Doesn't change the fact that the streets are empty now... |
There's a lot more to this game than just the Hollows. Since I joined in I7 two Hazard Zones have had a huge makeover and the Hollows got a minor one. There've been a significant number of new zones added - including a small expansion that provided four zones (or 6 depending how you count them) that comprises Praetoria.
Then there's Ouroboros and Cimerora and AE.
Incarnates: Now people have stuff to do at level 50 - instead of racing to 50 and then rolling a new toon in a rinse and repeat.
Yessirreeeeeeeeeeebob the streets sure are empty now.
Thelonious Monk
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There is indeed great independent thought in quoting the same post everytime this topic pops up. | Well, obviously anyone who doesn't totally agree with him is an unthinking, conformist, ignorant fool. After all, only people who totally agree with him show independent thought. |
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| We can't really declare that a big population likes low pop servers, we don't have that data. |
Really, the only relevant data we have here is from psychology/sociology circles ; humans are social creatures and, save for a few rare cases, generally need to communicate.
So guess what the so-called soloer, low-pop loving crowd does to fulfill their social needs? They come on the boards and post thousands of times, including in topics against server merges. Meanwhile, people who socialize more ingame don't need more interaction and post less if at all, including of course in these topics.
If you do a search for server merge topics, you'll see that in action. The same forum names with thousands of posts replying against server merges, while the people being pro merges tend to be new names with at most hundreds of posts, and often lower than that.
Of course, that's just, like, my interpretation, man. Much more likely is that people love being alone and that all these different individuals asking for merges are just one guy creating account after account to post the same question.
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So having a clear and concise list of arguments against an idea that comes up frequently, so the OP can quickly get up to speed on the current state of discussion, is somehow evidence of group mentality? We should restart the discussion at zero every time a new person comes in and proposes the idea?|
Originally Posted by Nihilii
There is indeed great independent thought in quoting the same post everytime this topic pops up.
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There's "independent thought", and there's "reinventing the wheel".
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QR and short answer to sum up the whole darn thread;
lolNo.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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That's why we have global channels. Using them any player can have access up to 25,000 players and they can be spread across every single one of the servers.
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Originally Posted by Nihilii
Really, the only relevant data we have here is from psychology/sociology circles ; humans are social creatures and, save for a few rare cases, generally need to communicate.
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Ahh, look, the "Waaah, I want to pretend post count means something becaues I can't think of a good argument!" argument.|
Originally Posted by Nihilii
So guess what the so-called soloer, low-pop loving crowd does to fulfill their social needs? They come on the boards and post thousands of times, including in topics against server merges. Meanwhile, people who socialize more ingame don't need more interaction and post less if at all, including of course in these topics.
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Small problem with that, bucky. I socialize plenty in game, with teams, pickup groups, *actual* friends who also play the game, global channels and more. (Unless your definition of "socialize" is "get spammed with 'AE Farm 54x8 lfm!' broadcasts.")
And yet it's my post that keeps getting quoted. And which people can't seem to find good arguments against. No, "I don't care if people lose characters/sgs/get scattered" is not a good argument.
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Well, I don't really post much on the forums here. Mainly, because others have already stated my opinions and I don't see the need to repeat them.|
Originally Posted by Nihilii
There is indeed great independent thought in quoting the same post everytime this topic pops up.
Indeed. Really, the only relevant data we have here is from psychology/sociology circles ; humans are social creatures and, save for a few rare cases, generally need to communicate. So guess what the so-called soloer, low-pop loving crowd does to fulfill their social needs? They come on the boards and post thousands of times, including in topics against server merges. Meanwhile, people who socialize more ingame don't need more interaction and post less if at all, including of course in these topics. If you do a search for server merge topics, you'll see that in action. The same forum names with thousands of posts replying against server merges, while the people being pro merges tend to be new names with at most hundreds of posts, and often lower than that. Of course, that's just, like, my interpretation, man. Much more likely is that people love being alone and that all these different individuals asking for merges are just one guy creating account after account to post the same question. |
Although, there are a few topics that I will chime in on. Usually, ones that deal with inherent Stamina (which I think was a huge mistake).
That being said, I have a relatively low post count, and I am against a server merge/deletion. I have a regular group that I team with weekly, and I do, on occasion, join PuGs. But, mostly, I solo. I prefer my personal space to be free of irritating pests. That is why I don't have any characters on Freedom. I have a few on Virtue, but not many.
There I was between a rock and a hard place. Then I thought, "What am I doing on this side of the rock?"
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Just FYI, 37,500.|
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
That's why we have global channels. Using them any player can have access up to 25,000 players and they can be spread across every single one of the servers.
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2500 accounts per channel X 15 global channels.
Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project
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Are you serious?|
Originally Posted by Nihilii
Really, the only relevant data we have here is from psychology/sociology circles ; humans are social creatures and, save for a few rare cases, generally need to communicate.
So guess what the so-called soloer, low-pop loving crowd does to fulfill their social needs? They come on the boards and post thousands of times, including in topics against server merges. Meanwhile, people who socialize more ingame don't need more interaction and post less if at all, including of course in these topics. If you do a search for server merge topics, you'll see that in action. The same forum names with thousands of posts replying against server merges, while the people being pro merges tend to be new names with at most hundreds of posts, and often lower than that. Of course, that's just, like, my interpretation, man. Much more likely is that people love being alone and that all these different individuals asking for merges are just one guy creating account after account to post the same question. |
1. The group of people who would have the best chance of being in favor of a merge are the players with the least amount of psychological investment in the current state of the game and its environment: the newer players.
2. Statistically speaking these will be the people with the lower post counts automatically.
3. Also statistically speaking, its known that only a small fraction of all players post on the forums at all, and only a fraction of those represent the bulk of all posts. Which means the frequency of posting cannot be usefully extrapolated backwards to the servers those players come from. They are the self-selected publicly active players. By definition they are different from the rest of the players that self-select to not get involved with the forums. The vast majority of Infinity doesn't post and the vast majority of Freedom doesn't post. There's no way to state that Freedom players obviously satisfy their social interaction in-game, while Infinity players obviously don't.
4. Furthermore, there's evidence to suggest that the server with the higher percentage of forum participation is Virtue. And that's because players who want a lot of social interaction with other players *might* act as you describe and get that in-game, and therefore not need the outlet of the forums. But its equally likely that players who seek interplayer interaction would deliberately seek out *other* avenues of interaction. So its not a good idea to extrapolate psychology casually.
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Yoink.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
its not a good idea to extrapolate psychology casually.
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Yep, riveting conversation these social animals have.|
Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
Unless your definition of "socialize" is "get spammed with 'AE Farm 54x8 lfm!' broadcasts."
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Some of us prefer quality over quantity, thank you very much. So if you don't mind, I'll be over there, on my less populated server, where all these people fulfilling their social needs don't drown out us antisocial shut-ins trying to form a TF or answer a question or some stupid crap like that.
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I thought we could only join 10 global channels. |
Originally Posted by Ironblade
Just FYI, 37,500.
2500 accounts per channel X 15 global channels. |
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| Global channel membership is based on account, not character. Joining a channel on one character automatically makes the channel visible to all other characters on the same account. Additionally, non-admin accounts are limited to 10 channel memberships. In order to join a new channel after reaching a total of 10, a player must first drop out of one of their current channels. |
I think since about when GR hit Ive seen a surprisingly healthy number of newbie posts in the Player Questions forum where they ask about what AT is good, how do I do X, etc. Considering that generally only a small number of players actually read the forums, I think we're doing ok on new recruits.
I play at night/early morning usually, and it's always been hard to find team at three AM on some place like Pinnacle (so now I'm on Virt and Freedom), but this hasn't noticeably changed since I started playing (not sure how long that is, check my join date over there).
Oh, except for the current "50s, 50s everywhere!" situation, but that's obviously not due to the game losing players.
You have your concerns and that's fine but I think you've chosen the wrong explanation for where they've come from.