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Not impossible to say. There is not one bad episode of Firefly, and Serenity the movie was amazing.|
Originally Posted by Durakken
and thus impossible to say future episodes would have been great... let alone good.
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Also, Buffy did not get terrible until around the 6th and 7th season, while the 5th season of Angel was the best one of the series. We can surmise from this information that Firefly would have been a phenomenal show all the way up through the 5th season. The 6th season would have been ok with a few shining moments, and the 7th season would have been pretty aweful.
Its like with the Lego games, or a Bioware game. You have no idea if the next game will be good, but considering they have never done a bad one you can assume the next one will be at least the same quality.
The first 15 minutes of Serenity are as perfectly crafted as cinema gets. People go on and on about the opening shot of The Player, but Whedon took that idea and cranked it past 11 to come around again. Not just the degree of difficulty of the tracking shot from bridge to engine room (there's a cut between the engine room and the confrontation between Mal and Simon), but the fact that the entire thing manages to set up not just the characters and the conflict, but also an entire universe. Brilliant.
What's also amazing about that opening sequence is that it's layers atop layers, peeling back one after another, going from the inside to the outside... which just so happens to echo precisely the character arc of River Tam, which further parallels the physical journey the characters go on, culminating in the ship bursting forth from the storm clouds into sunshine. That sequence is also brutal, cool and funny by turns, amping its brilliance further.
I'm surprised when people say they dislike it, because it is just so ineffably awesome. Even if you're not aware of the cinematic brilliance of the construction, it's still a cracking good story with a ton of action and genuinely funny lines.
The Alt Alphabet ~ OPC: Other People's Characters ~ Terrific Screenshots of Cool ~ Superhero Fiction
Also some of the best outtakes ever.
"Kaylee, find that kid who's taking a dirt nap with baby Jesus. We need a hood ornament."
Goodbye, I guess.
@Lord_Nightblade in Champions/Star Trek Online
nightblade7295@gmail.com if you want to stay in touch
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Yeah, I remember spurting coke from my nose the first time I saw that. Nathan Fillion is king of the one liner. |
Originally Posted by Lord_Nightblade
Also some of the best outtakes ever.
"Kaylee, find that kid who's taking a dirt nap with baby Jesus. We need a hood ornament." |
@Dante EU - Union Roleplayer and Altisis Victim
The Militia: Union RP Supergroup - www.themilitia.org.uk
Quote:
I like Serenity, but I have some problems with it in general. Namely the way that they go from the series, where the crew is usually running small jobs and trying to come out just far enough ahead that they can keep in the air for one more day, to suddenly risking their lives to oppose the government. It wasn't an illogical leap, just enough of a change in theme that it left me feeling a little cold.
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Originally Posted by Ironik
The first 15 minutes of Serenity are as perfectly crafted as cinema gets. People go on and on about the opening shot of The Player, but Whedon took that idea and cranked it past 11 to come around again. Not just the degree of difficulty of the tracking shot from bridge to engine room (there's a cut between the engine room and the confrontation between Mal and Simon), but the fact that the entire thing manages to set up not just the characters and the conflict, but also an entire universe. Brilliant.
What's also amazing about that opening sequence is that it's layers atop layers, peeling back one after another, going from the inside to the outside... which just so happens to echo precisely the character arc of River Tam, which further parallels the physical journey the characters go on, culminating in the ship bursting forth from the storm clouds into sunshine. That sequence is also brutal, cool and funny by turns, amping its brilliance further. I'm surprised when people say they dislike it, because it is just so ineffably awesome. Even if you're not aware of the cinematic brilliance of the construction, it's still a cracking good story with a ton of action and genuinely funny lines. |
Having Vengeance and Fallout slotted for recharge means never having to say you're sorry.
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Now see? THAT is what I can't figure out. Why why WHY hasn't HBO or ShowTime gone to Joss by now and said "give us a show and we promise not to cancel it"? He comes complete with a huge crowd of zombie followers who'll eat up anything he does with a spoon.|
Originally Posted by Mindscythe
Imagine, for a moment, what Firefly would have been like had Joss been making the show on HBO... Yeah.
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Well keep in mind that in the movie basically everyone was against it from the start. River and the Alliance practically forced the whole situation on them.
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Originally Posted by Kelenar
I like Serenity, but I have some problems with it in general. Namely the way that they go from the series, where the crew is usually running small jobs and trying to come out just far enough ahead that they can keep in the air for one more day, to suddenly risking their lives to oppose the government. It wasn't an illogical leap, just enough of a change in theme that it left me feeling a little cold.
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- CaptainFoamerang
Silverspar on Kelly Hu: A face that could melt paint off the wall *shivers*
Someone play my AE arc! "The Heart of Statesman" ID: 343405
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Well, judging from his posts in the SGU threads I'm guessing he actually watched a couple episodes out of the corner of his eye while he was on the computer doing something. And then judged the rest either by overheard comments or the IMDB synopsis.|
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
Gee you didn't like it. Why is no one surprised to hear that?
 |
Sorry Durakken. Not a cheap shot against you but rather against your method of watching tv shows which appears to be a combination of distraction and assumption.
Don't count your weasels before they pop dink!
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The crew pretty much disliked the government 100%. They're not exactly big enough to do more than some shifty things to make a buck, and take out their aggression by wearing their usual browncoats and going to a pro-government bar when they're celebrating the defeat of the browncoats.|
Originally Posted by Kelenar
I like Serenity, but I have some problems with it in general. Namely the way that they go from the series, where the crew is usually running small jobs and trying to come out just far enough ahead that they can keep in the air for one more day, to suddenly risking their lives to oppose the government. It wasn't an illogical leap, just enough of a change in theme that it left me feeling a little cold.
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When such a group is backed into a corner, they're hardly going give up and go along with the thing they hate with a passion... especially when that thing is a government very much in the wrong and some of them have already risked their lives against it in the first place.
My biggest issue with the movie is it shortened some things far too much. We should have had years with all the characters, but then... the movie happens. Also, I was highly disappointed the "hands of blue" had little to do with the events of the movie, when they were one of the scarier elements in the series. I'd also quibble whether the government is only after River because she knows stuff about the Reavers. Maybe my imagination is too big, but I figured there were more and bigger conspiracies than just that in the Alliance.
Guide: Tanking, Wall of Fire Style (Updated for I19!), and the Four Rules of Tanking
Story Arc: Belated Justice, #88003
Synopsis: Explore the fine line between justice and vengeance as you help a hero of Talos Island bring his friend's murderer to justice.
Grey Pilgrim: Fire/Fire Tanker (50), Victory
Well, she was clearly also a rather valuable asset.
@Zethustra
"Now at midnight all the agents and the superhuman crew come out
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
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I agree. I was really hoping for some sort of epic confrontation between the crew and the Hands of Blue men in the movie. The Operative was cool and all, but he wasn't anywhere near as scary or threatening as the Hands of Blue. And then I read the comic, which dealt with what happened to them. Let's just say, major major disappointment.|
Originally Posted by Grey Pilgrim
My biggest issue with the movie is it shortened some things far too much. We should have had years with all the characters, but then... the movie happens. Also, I was highly disappointed the "hands of blue" had little to do with the events of the movie, when they were one of the scarier elements in the series. I'd also quibble whether the government is only after River because she knows stuff about the Reavers. Maybe my imagination is too big, but I figured there were more and bigger conspiracies than just that in the Alliance.
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And River, yeah the show made it out to be a much deeper conspiracy than we got in the movie. In the show there were implications that it wasn't just the government after her, but also the huge Blue Sun mega-corporation (River goes bat-**** when she sees the Blue Sun logo, and I think the DVD extras imply that Hands of Blue were the Blue Sun hit team). That corporate corruption thread is left dangling at the movie's end.
Goodbye, I guess.
@Lord_Nightblade in Champions/Star Trek Online
nightblade7295@gmail.com if you want to stay in touch
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There is a comic - I have it but sadly forgot its title - that details the confrontation with these blue-handed guys. It is certainly no replacement for getting several episodes of content for sure, but it does serve as a bridge between the series and the movie.|
Originally Posted by Lord_Nightblade
I agree. I was really hoping for some sort of epic confrontation between the crew and the Hands of Blue men in the movie. The Operative was cool and all, but he wasn't anywhere near as scary or threatening as the Hands of Blue. And then I read the comic, which dealt with what happened to them. Let's just say, major major disappointment.
And River, yeah the show made it out to be a much deeper conspiracy than we got in the movie. In the show there were implications that it wasn't just the government after her, but also the huge Blue Sun mega-corporation (River goes bat-**** when she sees the Blue Sun logo, and I think the DVD extras imply that Hands of Blue were the Blue Sun hit team). That corporate corruption thread is left dangling at the movie's end. |
Edit: Whoops, missed the sentence saying he read the comic. My reading is gud
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I know. Like I said above, it was a disappointing way of tying up those loose ends.
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Originally Posted by TehHippeh
There is a comic - I have it but sadly forgot its title - that details the confrontation with these blue-handed guys. It is certainly no replacement for getting several episodes of content for sure, but it does serve as a bridge between the series and the movie.
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Goodbye, I guess.
@Lord_Nightblade in Champions/Star Trek Online
nightblade7295@gmail.com if you want to stay in touch
To be fair to the movie, it's really hard to tie up loose ends from a TV series into one 90 min movie, and still have a discernible plot.
If they ended all the plots and subplots, there wouldn't have been room to expand on anything in the comics and graphic novels we've seen come out since Serenity.
Loose --> not tight.
Lose --> Did not win, misplace, cannot find, subtract.
One extra 'o' makes a big difference.
As I mentioned upthread, they had put a lot of interesting and cool elements in place designed to carry a television series for years, so it's impossible for one movie to sum all that up. Notice, however, that there was a brief shot of the Blue Hand Men eavesdropping on the Alliance -- Joss hedging his bets that a sequel could be made, with big bads still out there. It's a shame the movie didn't do well enough to warrant a sequel, because if any film deserved to make $300 million, it was Serenity.
The Alt Alphabet ~ OPC: Other People's Characters ~ Terrific Screenshots of Cool ~ Superhero Fiction
Quote:
Oh, it certainly is hard to tie everything up, and I'm sure they didn't want to (future comics or movies, etc.): nor would I have wanted them to try. However, using a comic to tie up the Hands of Blue stuff is a bad thing, and the movie should have picked up with that (and they're hardly something someone unfamiliar with the story could not be impressed by). I was certainly expecting it, and was thrown off by it not being there. |
Originally Posted by White Hot Flash
To be fair to the movie, it's really hard to tie up loose ends from a TV series into one 90 min movie, and still have a discernible plot.
If they ended all the plots and subplots, there wouldn't have been room to expand on anything in the comics and graphic novels we've seen come out since Serenity. |
I also thought that Mal's feelings toward River and Tam had regressed a bit from the show to the movie (he seemed more comfortable having them on the ship by the end of the series), but I can go along with that more than the other stuff.
Still, I did like the movie. These were just my more major quibbles with it that bug me a tad.
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Originally Posted by Ironik
As I mentioned upthread, they had put a lot of interesting and cool elements in place designed to carry a television series for years, so it's impossible for one movie to sum all that up. Notice, however, that there was a brief shot of the Blue Hand Men eavesdropping on the Alliance -- Joss hedging his bets that a sequel could be made, with big bads still out there. It's a shame the movie didn't do well enough to warrant a sequel, because if any film deserved to make $300 million, it was Serenity.
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Guide: Tanking, Wall of Fire Style (Updated for I19!), and the Four Rules of Tanking
Story Arc: Belated Justice, #88003
Synopsis: Explore the fine line between justice and vengeance as you help a hero of Talos Island bring his friend's murderer to justice.
Grey Pilgrim: Fire/Fire Tanker (50), Victory
Quote:
As the movie was for all viewers not just Firefly fans, they may have decided that a covert operative would have been more dramatic and action oriented then the Hands of Blue.|
Originally Posted by Grey Pilgrim
Oh, it certainly is hard to tie everything up, and I'm sure they didn't want to (future comics or movies, etc.): nor would I have wanted them to try. However, using a comic to tie up the Hands of Blue stuff is a bad thing, and the movie should have picked up with that (and they're hardly something someone unfamiliar with the story could not be impressed by). I was certainly expecting it, and was thrown off by it not being there.
I also thought that Mal's feelings toward River and Tam had regressed a bit from the show to the movie (he seemed more comfortable having them on the ship by the end of the series), but I can go along with that more than the other stuff. Still, I did like the movie. These were just my more major quibbles with it that bug me a tad. Where was that eavesdropping? I haven't seen the movie in awhile, and can't recall (my wife and I have a hard time watching it, just because of later events in it). |
As for Mal's feelings toward River and Simon, he seemed okay with them until Simon made the statement "you're not taking her and that's final". That seemed to make Mal reevaluate Simon a bit, Simon later punching Mal sure didn't help but I also think of that as payback from the pilot episodes when Mal punched Simon. River going crazy after the keywords triggered her also made him reevaluate things with the Tams but Mal is too good a person to have just left her there and he was right to be angry with Simon for never mentioning the concept of River being programmed with keywords.....keywords that could still work on her if another operative comes looking for them.
As to Mal's overall personality, the man is a walking, talking case of post traumatic stress since the battle of Serenity valley, and his faith in God was also shattered at that point as well. Remember in the beginning of the pilot he was wearing a cross in the battle and later he no longer wore it? Plus only he and Zoe walked out of there alive. Frankly Mal could use an I.V. of Prozac for awhile or else at least wake up about his feelings towards Inara.
One of my minor gripes with Serenity was that they didn't try to extend the scene of Mal and the Shepard talking and how Mal wonders how Sherpard Book knows so much about the Alliance. I would have liked to have seen Shepard Book open up a bit to Mal about his past and what he was rather then to have waited for the Shepard's Tale.
SPOILERS
I was sad when the pilot was killed in Serenity. I even paused the bluray and looked at my wife in disbelief. My response was, "WHAT! THE! F!"*
* I did just say the letter 'f' because I'm trying to curb my ******* cursing.
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I honestly can't recall any sign of the Hands of Blue in Serenity unless it was in the holographic record of River being broken out as that is the only point I could see them being shown.
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Originally Posted by Grey Pilgrim
Oh, it certainly is hard to tie everything up, and I'm sure they didn't want to (future comics or movies, etc.): nor would I have wanted them to try. However, using a comic to tie up the Hands of Blue stuff is a bad thing, and the movie should have picked up with that (and they're hardly something someone unfamiliar with the story could not be impressed by). I was certainly expecting it, and was thrown off by it not being there.
I also thought that Mal's feelings toward River and Tam had regressed a bit from the show to the movie (he seemed more comfortable having them on the ship by the end of the series), but I can go along with that more than the other stuff. Still, I did like the movie. These were just my more major quibbles with it that bug me a tad. Where was that eavesdropping? I haven't seen the movie in awhile, and can't recall (my wife and I have a hard time watching it, just because of later events in it). |
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It was all about making the movie accessible to people who'd never seen the series.|
Originally Posted by Grey Pilgrim
Oh, it certainly is hard to tie everything up, and I'm sure they didn't want to (future comics or movies, etc.): nor would I have wanted them to try. However, using a comic to tie up the Hands of Blue stuff is a bad thing, and the movie should have picked up with that (and they're hardly something someone unfamiliar with the story could not be impressed by). I was certainly expecting it, and was thrown off by it not being there.
I also thought that Mal's feelings toward River and Tam had regressed a bit from the show to the movie (he seemed more comfortable having them on the ship by the end of the series), but I can go along with that more than the other stuff. |
For those folks, the "Hands of Blue" would really be too odd and kooky to make a practical movie adversary, especially given their normally slow and deliberate pace. You would have too many folks going, "What the hell?" It'd be just too distracting.
So Joss went with a covert ops monster. Easy to understand, gets the point across, you don't have to spend half the movie explaining the guy.
Similarly, there was a need to establish there was friction between Simon and Mal quickly and easily. So, yes, they took a step backwards, and had them butt heads early to get the idea across quickly and move on.
-np
I see myself as witty, urbane, highly talented, hugely successful with a keen sense of style. Plus of course my own special brand of modesty.
Virtue: Automatic Lenin | The Pink Guy | Superpowered | Guardia | Guardia Prime | Ultrapowered
For myself, sometimes I feel it is more fun to not know what is in the briefcase, so to speak.
The unraveling of all interesting secrets makes things more boring for me.
Sure I want to know while I'm watching... but, really, I enjoy not knowing the truth about Book and other such things.
Not saying anyone else is wrong for having different enjoyments. Just sharing my own.
@Zethustra
"Now at midnight all the agents and the superhuman crew come out
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
I thought this show was alot like cowboy bebop, a bunch of space cowboys stuck together on a rusty old ship trying to scrape enough fuel to get to the next port
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I agree some mystery is always a good thing, but the Shepard's past was just screaming to be revealed. Though the art on Shepard's tale could have been better it was still a nice bulletpoint revelation of the key points of his life.|
Originally Posted by Electric-Knight
For myself, sometimes I feel it is more fun to not know what is in the briefcase, so to speak.
The unraveling of all interesting secrets makes things more boring for me. Sure I want to know while I'm watching... but, really, I enjoy not knowing the truth about Book and other such things. Not saying anyone else is wrong for having different enjoyments. Just sharing my own. |
Now Boba Fett's history being revealed in the movies as a Jango clone was different.
The only thing I fgeel I can add to this. (Yes I'm, sure that many of you have seen this, but in case someone hasn't)
http://mikeymason.com/
Oh, and I have it on good authority that Mikey took out the discs before she dropped the cases, in case you were worried.
@IronHoss
@Payamma Gurl
I'm sorry that your crew was stupid enough to fire on a station filled with a quarter million civilians, including your own people. And I'm sorry I waited as long as I did before I blew them all straight to hell. ~Sheridan, The Fall of Night
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