Update to test (05/17/11)
By
Adeon Hawkwood,
Posted on: 2011-05-17 16:14 in The Global Training Room Test Server
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You know what else is totally unfair?|
Originally Posted by Wanted_NA
All I have to say is that I agree that 1 target limit on interface is taking it way overboard.
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Sets like Dark Armor, Electric Armor, Fiery Aura, Ice Armor and Stone Armor get to have Interface work in their auras at all but Invulnerability, Shield Defense and Willpower do not.
So yeah, my Invuln thinks that one target Procing is just fine.
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You know, I realize that the Interface needed tweaking, but this is just totally gutting the Interface slot. Only allowing it to effect 1 target is totally pointless. Ever proc in this game effects all mobs on a 10 second rule, why not allow this to do the same. I mean hell, the devs already have the debuff set to a very low number and only allows a stack of 4 at any given time, now its lowered to only 1 target. What a way to waste our time with the Interface slot.|
Originally Posted by StratoNexus
I have now tested Diamagnetic, and it works the same as reactive, proccing every 10 seconds in rains and auras.
HOWEVER There is another change to how Interface works in rains and auras. It only procs on one target. That is right, these AoE powers can now only proc the interface on one target at a time. Please let that last part be a bug, because that seems WRONG. |
I really hope this isn't the case, otherwise, I won't even slot my interface as it will be worthless.
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This does neatly segue into my overall problem with Reactive as live. A lot of the Incarnate stuff has given us a pretty incredible amount of power, but Reactive-Interface far too strongly affects specific powersets based on the presence or absence of pseudopet rains or damage auras. It struck me as very skewed and weird design that could not possibly be working as intended; I'm glad the Devs eventually agreed.|
Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane
You know what else is totally unfair?
Sets like Dark Armor, Electric Armor, Fiery Aura, Ice Armor and Stone Armor get to have Interface work in their auras at all but Invulnerability, Shield Defense and Willpower do not. So yeah, my Invuln thinks that one target Procing is just fine. |
As for the single-target issue, I don't mind procs affecting multiple targets. Regular procs do that, and you've always been able to build Freddy the Proc Monster. I just mind Caltrops melting armies like they were made of thermite.
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I have to admit, I would love to be able to have my Diamagnetic proc from Invincibility on my Kat/Inv scrapper or even the Reactive from my WP/Mace tanker. |
Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane
Sets like Dark Armor, Electric Armor, Fiery Aura, Ice Armor and Stone Armor get to have Interface work in their auras at all but Invulnerability, Shield Defense and Willpower do not.
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On the one hand, the non-damage auras generally have a lot going for them. They are auto-hit and all provide a benefit beyond damage (One can include Evasion and you might even include Energy Drain, a click, but since they added gauntlet to it, it is sort of Energy's aura type power). If one supposes they are balanced as is, then adding the Interface to just some of them does add some extra strength to the damage auras (IOs have long been this way, but Interface is different enough to consider it differently from IO procs in some ways). This is likely much less of an issue once the 10 second rule is place, however.
All in all, I can't see an issue if they were to let non-damage auras proc Interface, but at the same time, I don't see an issue if they choose to keep them not proccing Interface.
Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
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The problems with the pack pieces is that they feel like a graphic artist sat down and made an NPC piece with a set colour scheme, then remembered this has to go on a player character and threw in a couple of custom colour patches. The problem with this approach is that it limits the item's use to a great extent while adding absolutely nothing to customizability, outside of a few specific corner cases of people being able to use the default colours in their colour scheme.|
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
Still not got a chance to test yet, but what Sam mentions does sound like a bad idea. having an 'Original' option for a peice with the current settings, and a 'Altered' option where you can colour the metal sounds like a better idea. And would also work on MANY other pieces than the pack parts.
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If I want to use a costume piece detail to represent brass, I am more than capable of colouring that item a brownish-orange. Having the game FORCE me to wear brownish-orange brass goggles on my hat is not a superior decision just because I can have a black hat with orange goggles on it. All it means is I can't pick that hat if my character design doesn't involve brass elsewhere on the costume.
And again - "steampunk" is not the same as "everything is made from brass." Even the Nemesis Army uses (or used to use) shiny silver steel for the claws on their Warhulks. Suppose I want my boiler to be made not of bronze but of wrought iron?
Leaving uncolourable, very specific details on costume items has always been a very bad idea, and I thought the PPD shoulders had served as sufficient proof of that point - that yellow looks goofy unless you alter your original design to use yellow, which is often not worth it just for the shape of these things.
Please, give us doubles of the costume pieces which can be coloured completely, even if they end up with less colour detail in them overall. I'd sooner have my goggles match my hat if it meant I could have them black AND pick my hair colour.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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I want to try to make sure it is clear. In most AoEs Interface still functions just fine. If you Foot Stomp, Interface will proc on all hit. If you Fireball or Dark Obliteration or Nightfall or Crack Whip or M30 Grenade or any number of other AoES, Interface will proc just fine on multiple targets.|
Originally Posted by Beef_Cake
I mean hell, the devs already have the debuff set to a very low number and only allows a stack of 4 at any given time, now its lowered to only 1 target. What a way to waste our time with the Interface slot.
I really hope this isn't the case, otherwise, I won't even slot my interface as it will be worthless. |
It is ONLY in rains, patches, and auras that the target limit occurs (as far as my testing has confirmed, I have used Crack Whip and Fireball to test regular AoEs and my Demon Pets AoE attacks seem to proc on multiple targets as well, but I only checked the Demon Pets once, quickly). While I think rains, patches, and auras should still allow AoE proccing as well, in general gameplay, it is not a huge issue (but is a small annoying one
).
Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
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-8 for not reading thread one is posting to.
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Originally Posted by Noyjitat
Its funny though they said the power was working as intended before and I'm 100% positive one of them said it was working as intended on a ustream video recently too and then they suddenly decide to nerf it.
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Speeding Through New DA Repeatables || Spreadsheet o' Enhancements || Zombie Skins: better skins for these forums || Guide to Guides
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In this past Wednesday's Ustream, Dr. Aeon said it was being worked on and it was more complicated that one would think, so, no time frame for when it will be fixed. But it is definitely being worked on.
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Originally Posted by Xzero45
Any word for a fix for the AE's profanity filter bug?
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Speeding Through New DA Repeatables || Spreadsheet o' Enhancements || Zombie Skins: better skins for these forums || Guide to Guides
I'll just do a quick 'agree' here. I agree that rains, auras/etc, should not have the 1 target cap on them.
Haven't tested anything myself yet.
Oh and I'm in agreement with what Samuel said as well; I don't understand why the costume pieces aren't color changeable/tintable.
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I know you can't answer this, but seriously, why allow the proc to work in these AOE powers as normal but not the rains and patches? It makes no bloody sense to me at all. If the 10 second rule is in effect, then I don't see a problem with allowing multiple targets being effected.|
Originally Posted by StratoNexus
I want to try to make sure it is clear. In most AoEs Interface still functions just fine. If you Foot Stomp, Interface will proc on all hit. If you Fireball or Dark Obliteration or Nightfall or Crack Whip or M30 Grenade or any number of other AoES, Interface will proc just fine on multiple targets.
It is ONLY in rains, patches, and auras that the target limit occurs (as far as my testing has confirmed, I have used Crack Whip and Fireball to test regular AoEs and my Demon Pets AoE attacks seem to proc on multiple targets as well, but I only checked the Demon Pets once, quickly). While I think rains, patches, and auras should still allow AoE proccing as well, in general gameplay, it is not a huge issue (but is a small annoying one ). |
A single target proc from a rain or patch power is pointless and may as well be excluded from the power at this point if this is in fact they way the devs want it to work. I personally will remove the ability from the characters that have it and won't even bother slotting any of the Interface abilities on characters with said powers.
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Another Fan, I'm curious as to how you think getting a respec would help with Incarnate slotting issues, when Incarnate powers aren't locked in to a power like an enhancement would be. You can take it out.
Craft a different one. That takes more time, yes, but what else to you have to do before the new Incarnate content comes out?
Loose --> not tight.
Lose --> Did not win, misplace, cannot find, subtract.
One extra 'o' makes a big difference.
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I've kept quiet on the issue despite the fact that obviously sets with damage auras get more from Interface than those that don't and until this change, sets with rains got even more.|
Originally Posted by StratoNexus
If one supposes they are balanced as is, then adding the Interface to just some of them does add some extra strength to the damage auras (IOs have long been this way, but Interface is different enough to consider it differently from IO procs in some ways). This is likely much less of an issue once the 10 second rule is place, however.
All in all, I can't see an issue if they were to let non-damage auras proc Interface, but at the same time, I don't see an issue if they choose to keep them not proccing Interface. |
The reason I've not said anything is that I've had a strong suspicion that one of the future Incarnate slots would be an aura of some sort, and Interface would, well... interface with it. That would remove some of the disparity, especially with the 10 second rule now in place.
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Explain to me how that makes any sense at all.|
Originally Posted by Beef_Cake
I personally will remove the ability from the characters that have it and won't even bother slotting any of the Interface abilities on characters with said powers.
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For example, my Fire/Fire/Flame blaster has 2 powers (and I could have 3) that will be affected by this. With this change those 2 powers will now have Interface affect one target every 10 seconds. Hot Feet and Blazing Aura will still work just like they have for years. Interface will still work great in all my other powers and will simply be mostly a non-factor in those two powers.
But because of this I should respec out of Hot Feet and Blazing Aura AND unslot my Interface?
Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
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I don't think anyone has to change their Interface choice, unless they specifically made the choice to take advantage of an overpowered rain.|
Originally Posted by Another_Fan
Well what this means is there is a good chance anyone, NOT JUST THE PEOPLE THAT TOOK REACTIVE BUT ANYONE !!! has to re-pick their interface power. Seeing there is no way to respec them because the devs are having an oopsie moment, this means they have to grind them out again.
I know what a normal person's reaction to that proposition would be. |
The vast majority of characters don't even have rain powers so it literally affects them not at all. Anyone who had rain powers and not-Reactive probably didn't even notice the effect at all. Anyone who is using Reactive should be able to continue to enjoy the fact that all their other powers still do a lot more damage than without the Interface.
I would estimate the number of people who feel they have to change their Interface slot now because of this change is not even double digit.
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Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.
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I never said I'm gonna respec out of any power. I said I will remove the Interface ability from the characters that have said power that make it almost pointless to even use the Interface slot. For example, my Storm / Ice Defender, I use my rains on her and thats it, I don't use single target blasts, so the Interface will be of no use to me after this change goes into play. So therefore I will remove it, as it won't be much help to me.|
Originally Posted by StratoNexus
Explain to me how that makes any sense at all.
For example, my Fire/Fire/Flame blaster has 2 powers (and I could have 3) that will be affected by this. With this change those 2 powers will now have Interface affect one target every 10 seconds. Hot Feet and Blazing Aura will still work just like they have for years. Interface will still work great in all my other powers and will simply be mostly a non-factor in those two powers. But because of this I should respec out of Hot Feet and Blazing Aura AND unslot my Interface? |
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Originally Posted by Dispari
I don't think anyone has to change their Interface choice, unless they specifically made the choice to take advantage of an overpowered rain.
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First to clarify, I am saying that the ability to uncreate the interface ability should be granted. Break it down into the components.|
Originally Posted by White Hot Flash
Another Fan, I'm curious as to how you think getting a respec would help with Incarnate slotting issues, when Incarnate powers aren't locked in to a power like an enhancement would be. You can take it out.
Craft a different one. That takes more time, yes, but what else to you have to do before the new Incarnate content comes out? |
Second the ability to slot as needed is a bit of a red herring. You are limited by your ability to get rares and very rares and just how much you enjoy repeating trials over over over and over again.
If you think getting the rare and very rare drops is trivial, there is a thread that has over 1k posts disagreeing with you
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No Anyone who has an interface in a rain is going to have to re-evaluate their choice. Depending on what they took for interface they may also have to re-evaluate their destiny choice as well.
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Originally Posted by Dispari
I don't think anyone has to change their Interface choice, unless they specifically made the choice to take advantage of an overpowered rain.
The vast majority of characters don't even have rain powers so it literally affects them not at all. Anyone who had rain powers and not-Reactive probably didn't even notice the effect at all. Anyone who is using Reactive should be able to continue to enjoy the fact that all their other powers still do a lot more damage than without the Interface. I would estimate the number of people who feel they have to change their Interface slot now because of this change is not even double digit. |
Somewhere between all of the anniversary events, global server access and various other as-sundries, communication about these test notes did not occur. I've reached out to our publishing team and we should have some notes for you all today.
My apologies for the delay and thanks for the patience.
- Z
Andy Belford
Community Manager
Paragon Studios
I'm a bit concerned, actually. Not because I want an uber character that can have an interface proc firing on all the targets in an AoE's effect....but that there's a precedent already set. IO set procs in AoE powers. Chance for psi damage in the taunt set. Oblit's chance for smashing damage in foot stomp, or any other PBAoE power it can slot into. If the interface proc is changed...what's stopping them from changing all the other set procs?
Nerf the damage that reactive's doing. Not its current effect. Let it proc how it was originally. And the rest of the interface lineup.
it never ceases to amaze me how little things change around here.
We've got half a page of "ooo new toys" and 5 and a half pages of number chrunching min/maxers crying about a nerf.
Absolutely nothing has changed in the year I was gone.
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All the other set procs already follow the 10 second rule in rains, patches, and auras. The Interface likely should have followed their lead, but either technical limitations or a simple oversight missed it.|
Originally Posted by mercykilling
Oblit's chance for smashing damage in foot stomp, or any other PBAoE power it can slot into. If the interface proc is changed...what's stopping them from changing all the other set procs?
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Powers like Foot Stomp are completely irrelevant to this discussion, it performs on Test exactly as it currently performs on live and I do not predict any change in its behavior.
Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
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I have a character with Reactive and a rain power and I'm not going to be re-evaluating anything. I didn't take Reactive because it turned Rain of Fire into a nuke, I took it for a damage perk to all my powers. And it still does that.|
Originally Posted by Another_Fan
No Anyone who has an interface in a rain is going to have to re-evaluate their choice. Depending on what they took for interface they may also have to re-evaluate their destiny choice as well.
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I don't disagree that it should be working on all targets and not one. I do however disagree that it's as dramatic as you make it out to be and people will have to change their Interface slot just because rain powers are no longer nukes. The only way that should be the case is if they made their Interface choice based entirely on the fact that it was making rain powers into nukes.
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Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.
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I just tested Diamagnetic interface in World of Confusion and that seems broken as well.
I tested in the RWZ by standing between two test dummies with the aura on. Once it had triggered on one target it would not trigger on the second target. I also noticed that the proc is no longer able to to keep the debuff on the target continuously.
Personally if this does make it to live, I would want to change my destiny from barrier to clarion.
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There's always going to be some amount of powerset favoritism involved with any proc effect. Just on the basis of activation time, that's bound to be true (unless, I suppose, proc damage were normalized by activation, but that's a whole nother kettle of worms). As a general rule and for what little it's worth, I like that you can, if you like, build a character with a view towards maximizing procs.|
Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane
You know what else is totally unfair?
Sets like Dark Armor, Electric Armor, Fiery Aura, Ice Armor and Stone Armor get to have Interface work in their auras at all but Invulnerability, Shield Defense and Willpower do not. So yeah, my Invuln thinks that one target Procing is just fine. |
The rain-as-super-nuke version of Reactive Interface went way way too far there, though. To a lesser extent, having procs fire on every tick of damage auras was unfair too, for the reasons Johnny cites. There are certain non-damage powers that probably should (at least in theory) be able to proc Interface effects, including Reactive's DoT.
And there are probably a handful of powers that probably shouldn't proc Reactive's DoT. I was amused to find, for example, that my Dominator's Mesmerize procs Reactive, which wakes up anything I've just slept. Silly me, I didn't think to check on that before running an LRSF the other day.
All of that said, limiting certain AoE powers to one proc target isn't any more fair than limiting non-damage auras from firing procs. It's arguably less fair in the case of rains -- which were ridiculously overpowered, and did need to be fixed -- because rains are:
- Generally activation-time intensive;
- Often available in power sets that otherwise lack for AoE attacks (Ice Blast, Cold Domination, Storm Summoning; Fire Blast is the outlier).
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Originally Posted by Iggy_Kamakaze
Nice build
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Strato, did you test to see if the 10s lockout stopped proc'ing from separate powers as well as from one? That is, if I get a -Def proc from Flashfire, does that mean a follow up Fire Cages would have no chance of applying another -Def debuff?
As far as I recall, each power has its own timer and will not interfere with other powers proc chances (unless, of course, the cap is reached). So if I drop Freezing Rain and my Hellfire Gargoyle charges in, the fact that Freezing Rain just procced will not prevent the Hellfire Aura from proccing.
Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.