Update to test (05/17/11)
By
Adeon Hawkwood,
Posted on: 2011-05-17 16:14 in The Global Training Room Test Server
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Oh, well if the number is so small then why are they wasting time making a change when there are so many other things that need to be fixed?|
I don't think anyone has to change their Interface choice, unless they specifically made the choice to take advantage of an overpowered rain. The vast majority of characters don't even have rain powers so it literally affects them not at all. Anyone who had rain powers and not-Reactive probably didn't even notice the effect at all. Anyone who is using Reactive should be able to continue to enjoy the fact that all their other powers still do a lot more damage than without the Interface. I would estimate the number of people who feel they have to change their Interface slot now because of this change is not even double digit. |
This is just another case where the devs cave to a vocal group of whiners who feel that a power somebody else is using is better than what they are using--thus it should be nerfed. Someone earlier said it made them feel the rest of their powerset was redundant. If that's the case, JUST DON'T USE IT. Nobody is forcing anyone slot interface in a rain power.
Is reactive OP the way it is currently functioning? Yes it is--because that is the point of the whole incarnate system. The idea is to put you on a level with Statesman. So some people have the ability to turn their rain powers into a nuke--is that really a big deal when everyone has the ability to get a large nuke, as well as things like the barrier buff?
Really? You can have a team of 8 with everyone firing off their judgement and spamming barrier constantly to the entire team and that one guy who is nuking people with sleet is a big deal?
I also got a laugh from the idea forwarded by some that this is a pvp driven nerf. First of all they don't care about pvp. Secondly, there aren't that many people around any more that have the skill to effectively use a rain like that in pvp without getting wrecked by sharks, psi blasters, etc. in the process (also you generally just jump out of it). And finally, the chances of you dieing from exposure to an overpowered rain are slim because you would likely be spiked by other damage dealers before the rain could run its course in the event you were unable to escape.
Another stupid nerf that will do nothing to improve the game overall, and make interface lamer to the people affected. Like when they nerfed the range on impale. That was something that really needed to be addressed and I'm sure everyone is really glad they took the time.
www.battlewraith.deviantart.com
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shush shush shush!!
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Originally Posted by Zombie Man
C'mon, people.
The important thing to remember is that the Incarnate Procs are still ridiculously overpowered in MMs whose pets hit almost as often as a rain. At least we still have that! |
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Originally Posted by VoodooGirl
[*]Watching out for the Spinning Disco Portal of D00M!*
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Because it was drastically overpowered.
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Originally Posted by BattleWraith
Oh, well if the number is so small then why are they wasting time making a change when there are so many other things that need to be fixed?
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Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.
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Drastically? It's supposed to boost your power substantially. Now it's going to be garbage in those powers and definitely less fun if they go ahead with this nonsense.
www.battlewraith.deviantart.com
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There's a difference between overpowered and insane. Turning a rain power into a nuke is insane.
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Originally Posted by BattleWraith
Drastically? It's supposed to boost your power substantially. Now it's going to be garbage in those powers and definitely less fun if they go ahead with this nonsense.
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Liberty Server (@enderbean)
Arcs on Live
#1460 Hometown Rivalry
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Reactive Rains delivered more damage than Judgement does. Rains can have a cycle time three to four times faster than Judgement's unmodifiable 90-second cooldown. Judgement and Reactive were introduced at the same time.|
Originally Posted by BattleWraith
Drastically? It's supposed to boost your power substantially. Now it's going to be garbage in those powers and definitely less fun if they go ahead with this nonsense.
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That's obviously broken no matter how you slice it. You're free to believe that your Rain-toting character doesn't break the game, but you can't reasonably argue that the same devs who gave us Judgement would allow Reactive to outperform it so drastically. Unless you think they're total morons, I guess.
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Originally Posted by Iggy_Kamakaze
Nice build
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Turning a power that isn't even supposed to deal significant damage into something that can wipe out lieutenants on max difficulty is definitely insane.
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Originally Posted by enderbean
There's a difference between overpowered and insane. Turning a rain power into a nuke is insane.
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Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.
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With the current Interface on live, my Plant/Storm controller can melt ambush farms of +4/x8/with bosses at an amazing rate. The T4 Reactive DoT proc does over half my total damage tracked in HeroStats, four times the total damage of the 11 damage procs in my AOE powers. I agree this seems somewhat excessive.|
Originally Posted by enderbean
There's a difference between overpowered and insane. Turning a rain power into a nuke is insane.
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The change on test, however, renders the proc nearly useless for me. It will fire "normally" in one of my AOE powers -- roots. My other "go-to" powers -- carrion creepers (the pet, the pet's powers, the pet's pets, and the pet's pets' powers), freezing rain, lightning storm, tornado, and ice storm -- will all now only proc on one target per activation. This drastically guts its usefulness to my primary Incarnate character.
One might counter that it will still work normally in my single-target powers. I don't, however, need my single-target powers in most situations. I am an whirling AOE of chaos and destruction!
Hazel Black - Mind/Psi D
Stephanie Winters - Nightwidow
Jacqui Frost - Cold/Ice D
Jacqui Embers - Fire/Kin C
Simone Templar - Fire/MM B
Mallory Woods - Kin/Rad D
Sanguine Melody - Grav/Sonic C
Fumina Hara - Plant/Storm C
Nutmeg - Warshade
Lauren Wu - SS/WP B
Lol and why is that a big deal when EVERBODY can get a powerful nuke that recharges fairly quickly and can hit what, between 16 and 40 targets? People are complaining about the effect of interface on rains out of context. If you are running a team of people that have slotted up their incarnate powers--how long are those mobs going to stay standing to take damage from the rain? It's silly to obssess over this when a team of fully enhanced players make that damage redundant anyways.
I have ice storm on one of my brutes with tier 4 reactive. It's epic when i'm solo. Its fun to go into a large mob, throw the rain and then watch them melt as I throw my other aoes. On a team of other incarnates..it's hardly noticeably. It doesn't even have time to work before the mobs go down.
All that's going to happen is they'll cater to complainers and single auras and rains to be lame in the application of this effect. It will give those people that feel slighted by not having or not wanting to use these nukes some satisfaction that NOBODY is benefitting from them. The people that were using them will respec, play other characters, or change nothing. And so on until the next crazy underestimated thing catches on and people go to work trying to get that thing nerfed.
www.battlewraith.deviantart.com
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The damage from the rain is extended over the duration of the power no? Apples to oranges? Part of the point I'm making here is that interface does a lot of damage over time, but the likelihood of the mobs staying alive long enough to take all that damage, especially in a team situation makes it moot.| Reactive Rains delivered more damage than Judgement does. Rains can have a cycle time three to four times faster than Judgement's unmodifiable 90-second cooldown. Judgement and Reactive were introduced at the same time. |
I've killed people in pvp zones with judgement. I've killed scrappers and tanks with it from full health before under the right conditions. Never been killed by a rain power.
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| That's obviously broken no matter how you slice it. You're free to believe that your Rain-toting character doesn't break the game, but you can't reasonably argue that the same devs who gave us Judgement would allow Reactive to outperform it so drastically. Unless you think they're total morons, I guess. |
As for the devs, I can't speak to their motivations. There are plenty of ridiculous implementations of powers out there, I just don't feel the urge to hop on a bandwagon to get them nerfed because other people are making good use of them.
www.battlewraith.deviantart.com
I'm not saying I agree to the one target change, but A change was warranted.
Liberty Server (@enderbean)
Arcs on Live
#1460 Hometown Rivalry
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Ironically, it only "guts" the slot for people with rain powers and massive AOE's. It still works the same for melee types and it's pretty darn powerful as it is. As usual, this thread is full of so much hyperbole I could probably float a boat on it...
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Originally Posted by Beef_Cake
You know, I realize that the Interface needed tweaking, but this is just totally gutting the Interface slot. Only allowing it to effect 1 target is totally pointless. Ever proc in this game effects all mobs on a 10 second rule, why not allow this to do the same. I mean hell, the devs already have the debuff set to a very low number and only allows a stack of 4 at any given time, now its lowered to only 1 target. What a way to waste our time with the Interface slot.
I really hope this isn't the case, otherwise, I won't even slot my interface as it will be worthless. |
"Superman died fighting Doomsday because he allowed his toggles to drop, and didn't beat Doomsday before Unstoppable wore off, sad really..."
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Yes, actually, it did break the game for me. Reactive Rains turned pretty much all other offensive build considerations into a joke. I like to tune builds. Overnight, my lowest-offense character was suddenly the highest-offense character, and the characters who didn't have access to Rains were irrelevant. Your argument might have a little more weight behind it if Reactive Interface were equally strong on characters who don't have rains, but it wasn't even close. The power divide was entirely arbitrary.|
Originally Posted by BattleWraith
Lol i'm sorry, did I break your game? Are there swarms or interface rain-dropping people out there ruining your play experience?
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Engaging games require meaningful choices. One overwhelmingly superior choice is no choice at all.
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| As for the devs, I can't speak to their motivations. There are plenty of ridiculous implementations of powers out there, I just don't feel the urge to hop on a bandwagon to get them nerfed because other people are making good use of them. |
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Originally Posted by Iggy_Kamakaze
Nice build
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Hey all,
Interface procs should have been obeying the standard 10 second per proc in toggle/auto/location power rules from the start. The fact that they weren't was the result of a bug which we are addressing with this patch. Any information I or anyone else at Paragon may have given to the contrary in the past was in error: The intention is that Interface procs behave as close to "having a proc IO slotted in all powers" as possible, and we are making these and the future changes to better achieve that intent.
The issue that rain powers are now only hitting 1 target per 10 seconds is a side-effect of the fix which we will be addressing in a future build. Rain powers should have chance to hit all targets with the proc (but only one "round" of application per 10 seconds across all powers of this category).
Your bud in the Incarnate-powered armor,
Black Scorpion
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RoF on my high recharge fire dom has an average recharge time of 18 seconds in HeroStats, faster if I'm Johnny on the Spot and I remember to hit Hasten.|
Originally Posted by Obitus
Reactive Rains delivered more damage than Judgement does. Rains can have a cycle time three to four times faster than Judgement's unmodifiable 90-second cooldown. Judgement and Reactive were introduced at the same time..
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FWIW, the sheer face-melting ability of having a near-perma rain + all the DoT of a fire / fire / fire build? Jebus. I've seen entire teams have lower DPS.
With regard to one target rains ...
That's really, really freaking weird to me. I didn't even know an AoE patch could be set to fire an effect on one target.
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Totally unintentional first post after a red name!
Thanks for the clarification.
I don't understand why people are so surprised about the reactive nerf. It was being abused. Did we learn nothing from the poison gas trap debacle?
I do think only proccing on one target from an AoE is taking it too far though. Most AoE powers take longer to recharge to make up for hitting more targets. Since the change wasn't documented in the patch notes I don't know if that's the intended effect, or if it's a bug.
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"lol" no you didn't break anything, since the thing's going to be nerfed, and balance will be restored. As others have said, we're all fairly sure the "one target" thing is unintended, and I have no problem with that, however, it's not going to stay that powerful, and that's just all there is to it. It's not a matter of "making good use" of anything, it's plain and simple just too much of an "i win" button. Our devs have a pretty good eye for balance, so I'm sure it'll work itself out. Thank you, drive through.|
Originally Posted by BattleWraith
Lol i'm sorry, did I break your game? Are there swarms or interface rain-dropping people out there ruining your play experience?
As for the devs, I can't speak to their motivations. There are plenty of ridiculous implementations of powers out there, I just don't feel the urge to hop on a bandwagon to get them nerfed because other people are making good use of them. |
Edit: and now that Black Scopion has posted, I'm even more sure I'm right :P All is well here, there's nothing to see, move along, move along. *Jedi Mind Trick hand-wave*
"Superman died fighting Doomsday because he allowed his toggles to drop, and didn't beat Doomsday before Unstoppable wore off, sad really..."
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Originally Posted by MTS
I do think only proccing on one target from an AoE is taking it too far though. Most AoE powers take longer to recharge to make up for hitting more targets. Since the change wasn't documented in the patch notes I don't know if that's the intended effect, or if it's a bug.
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Originally Posted by Black Scorpion
The issue that rain powers are now only hitting 1 target per 10 seconds is a side-effect of the fix which we will be addressing in a future build. Rain powers should have chance to hit all targets with the proc (but only one "round" of application per 10 seconds across all powers of this category).
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Positron: "There are no bugs [in City of Heroes], just varying degrees of features."
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Makes sense to me. |
Originally Posted by Black Scorpion
Hey all,
Interface procs should have been obeying the standard 10 second per proc in toggle/auto/location power rules from the start. The fact that they weren't was the result of a bug which we are addressing with this patch. Any information I or anyone else at Paragon may have given to the contrary in the past was in error: The intention is that Interface procs behave as close to "having a proc IO slotted in all powers" as possible, and we are making these and the future changes to better achieve that intent. The issue that rain powers are now only hitting 1 target per 10 seconds is a side-effect of the fix which we will be addressing in a future build. Rain powers should have chance to hit all targets with the proc (but only one "round" of application per 10 seconds across all powers of this category). Your bud in the Incarnate-powered armor, Black Scorpion |
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Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.
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I wasn't sure because it reminded me of one of the numerous bugs that once plagued the Force Feedback proc. Anyway, I just got a chance to test and confirmed what you said, accept for the Rain issue.|
Originally Posted by StratoNexus
The 10 second lockout (and the single target limit) only affect rain (including things like Burn and Bonfire) and aura powers. Neither Flashfire nor Fire Cages should behave any differently than they do on live. Only Bonfire and Hot Feet from Fire Control should be affected.
As far as I recall, each power has its own timer and will not interfere with other powers proc chances (unless, of course, the cap is reached). So if I drop Freezing Rain and my Hellfire Gargoyle charges in, the fact that Freezing Rain just procced will not prevent the Hellfire Aura from proccing. |
The only Rain I have has Diamagnetic and for some reason I'm getting no combat spam at all from that proc despite a guaranteed chance to fire (it's the 100% -ToHit, 50% -Regen one). I made sure I had all combat channels monitored but saw nothing. So, either the proc isn't working at all, or it's not talking about it. Which is a bug in either case.
Kosmos
Global: @Calorie
MA Arcs in 4-star purgatory: Four in a Row (#2198) - Hostile Takeover (#69714) - Red Harvest (#268305)
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I'm loving the idea of /em trainwhistle as the "about to start the Incarnate Trial, could you please look up and click the big green button now" signal ("all aboard!")...|
Originally Posted by Mystic_Fortune
So.... am I the only one who bothered to look and see that the new Steam Punk Booster emotes had been added to the quickchat user interface?
Each of these include sound effects. They are:
Edit: Costume pieces are there, just scattered about... pictures coming soon™ |
However... it's worth mentioning that the new emotes suffer from the old bug where they don't animate if you have a shield out. Guess this ought to be fixed before the pack goes live.
Also, put me in the mix of those wishing for more ability to customize colors on the new pieces. If I pick "white" as the base color for something (such as the new backpack (and did I mention, YAY BACKBACKS!)), it should be white, not dull orange. Because if I then try to make the dull-orange any other color, it's quite impossible to match to anything. There are similar (but less obvious) issues such as the female Classic Steampunk 01 chest detail having a colorable area that starts as a much darker gray, but the worst offenders are the new "brass" pieces. If an area of a costume piece can be colored, it should not start with a base color.
Another nitpick: might want to take another pass and make sure all the new pieces are appearing in appropriate places. For example, while I get that the Victorian boots for women would clip with many leg types, I think the Classic Steampunk would fit with tucked in/armored legs. No "sleeveless" versions of the jackets either.
Looking forward to seeing what people can do with the new pieces.
Just some of my 50s on Pinnacle... wave if you see:
Doctor Geist: Grav/FF Controller | Fighting Spirit: MA/Inv Scrapper (1250+ badges) | Bird of Paradise: Sonic/NRG Blaster | Pretense: Ill/Rad Controller
Gothic Horror: Dark/Stone Brute | Technophobe: Bot/Dk MM | Snow Leopard: Ice/Ice Dom
Gothic Horror: Dark/Stone Brute | Technophobe: Bot/Dk MM | Snow Leopard: Ice/Ice Dom
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Come to think of it I don't recall seeing combat spam from any of the interface procs, except maybe the DoT.|
Originally Posted by Kosmos
The only Rain I have has Diamagnetic and for some reason I'm getting no combat spam at all from that proc despite a guaranteed chance to fire (it's the 100% -ToHit, 50% -Regen one). I made sure I had all combat channels monitored but saw nothing. So, either the proc isn't working at all, or it's not talking about it. Which is a bug in either case.
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All of them have a visual effect though, so you can at least see if the guaranteed effect is going off. For the 50% one you can craft a power analyzer mk3 temp power to see the combat numbers of one of your test subjects.
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As far as I know, none of the debuff procs give us any combat spam for the logs. Even the Reactive only gives out spam for the damage portion. I used a Temp Analyzer in order to make sure my targets were being affected when testing Diamgnetic (as well as looking for the FX that would show up).|
Originally Posted by Kosmos
The only Rain I have has Diamagnetic and for some reason I'm getting no combat spam at all from that proc despite a guaranteed chance to fire (it's the 100% -ToHit, 50% -Regen one). I made sure I had all combat channels monitored but saw nothing. So, either the proc isn't working at all, or it's not talking about it. Which is a bug in either case.
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I do agree it would be nice if we could get some combat spam letting us know the debuff is being applied.
Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
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My love for you has grown!!
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Originally Posted by iPirate
it never ceases to amaze me how little things change around here.
We've got half a page of "ooo new toys" and 5 and a half pages of number chrunching min/maxers crying about a nerf. Absolutely nothing has changed in the year I was gone. |
Speeding Through New DA Repeatables || Spreadsheet o' Enhancements || Zombie Skins: better skins for these forums || Guide to Guides
If you are also attacking the target, you should have little problem maintaining at least 2 or 3 stacks and WoC will help you make it 3 or 4 most of the time (albeit currently only against one target).
Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.