Update to test (05/17/11)
By
Adeon Hawkwood,
Posted on: 2011-05-17 16:14 in The Global Training Room Test Server
Dunno what else is new but I have commas in my 'real numbers' Inf field. So that's nice. 
@Quasadu
"We must prepare for DOOM and hope for FREEM." - SirFrederick
Just got done playing around on test. Reactive got nerfed really REALLY hard in rain powers. Rain powers now only have one chance per activation to proc it. Characters that don't have rain powers this won't affect them at all.
Characters I tested:
Cold/Sonic/Mace Defender: T4 Reactive (75fire/25res)
SS/Fire/Soul Brute: T4 Reactive (75fire/25res)
Earth/Thorn/Ice Dominator: T3 Reactive (75fire(
My col/son got the same times as before on a pylon with these changes, but I went to the RWZ dummines and watched sleet for about 10 cycles. The -res proc only activated a few times out of all those cast showing that it was ONLY on cast it had a chance to proc.
My SS/Fire/Soul brute had about 20s added to his pylon time, and when I took him to the RWZ dummies burn had the same results as sleet on my defender.
My Earth/Thorn/Ice didn't get a pylon run but I did run some missions at +3 x8. It took about as long as it took before I got reactive on live. On live he feels like a little murderborg of fun and glory and he is amazingly fun. I had no interest in the character until I20 and with these changes he lost my interest again. Oh well, I have a lot of freespecs banked on him to get my sets out in case these changes go live.
Oh well....there goes my hope of them maybe making the other bits of interface good.
Basically, this change pretty much reverts rains back to their old damage. Good bye fun, I'll miss you. Here I was hoping for something awesome and they would just make the rest of interface better...unless they did but I have no way to test that since none of my characters had any incentive to take anything else other than reactive (and still won't).
....influence with commas while monitoring your combat attributes is super nice though.
Eh, it was pretty much a given that they'd nerf it somehow. I was expecting it to change to the 10 second rule but in retrospect I can sort of see why they changed it to once per click. Regular damage procs have a 20% change to fire whereas reactive has a 75% so even once every 10 seconds would be a lot of damage in patch/aura type powers.
Dear devs;
Black Scorpion
Synapse
TheNet
etc.
Please don't send this patch to live. Interface is nowhere near as fun now. How about 5 seconds between procs is that an acceptable compromise for a 'rain' type power?
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They did change it to the once every 10 second rule, for both rains and auras.
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Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood
Eh, it was pretty much a given that they'd nerf it somehow. I was expecting it to change to the 10 second rule but in retrospect I can sort of see why they changed it to once per click. Regular damage procs have a 20% change to fire whereas reactive has a 75% so even once every 10 seconds would be a lot of damage in patch/aura type powers.
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Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
Sure reactive had to be nerfed, either that or the rest of interface rebalanced but why state that it was working as intended on the ustream only to 180 on that 1 week later ?
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the power was working as intended, but there was a lot of poeple complaining that reactive specifically was overpowered in stuff like rains and patches (which it kind of was)|
Originally Posted by Another_Fan
Sure reactive had to be nerfed, either that or the rest of interface rebalanced but why state that it was working as intended on the ustream only to 180 on that 1 week later ?
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the devs are most likely trying to rebalance it because of the feedback, ect from the players
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Thats not the problem. The problem is anyone that took an interface on the basis it would be best for them is going to quite likely find they have a load of garbage. Some way to break down crafted interfaces seems in order.
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Originally Posted by Necrotech_Master
the power was working as intended, but there was a lot of poeple complaining that reactive specifically was overpowered in stuff like rains and patches (which it kind of was)
the devs are most likely trying to rebalance it because of the feedback, ect from the players |
the only interface that was overpowered was the reactive DoT, pretty much all the debuff effects of interface i would consider extremely underpowered and hardly if even noticeable
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You seriously need a change of perspective if you think Reactive is garbage just because it doesn't turn rains into nukes.
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Originally Posted by Another_Fan
Thats not the problem. The problem is anyone that took an interface on the basis it would be best for them is going to quite likely find they have a load of garbage. Some way to break down crafted interfaces seems in order.
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Issue 16 made me feel like this.
Warning: This poster likes to play Devil's Advocate.
Huh. I was wondering why my RoF was being so awesome lately. Oh well.
Craft your inventions in AE!!
Play "Crafter's Cafe" - Arc #487283. A 1 mission, NON-COMBAT AE arc with workable invention tables!
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It's not the first time they have said something is WAI until the point they actually take the time to look at it and see it is working as anything but intended.|
Originally Posted by Another_Fan
Sure reactive had to be nerfed, either that or the rest of interface rebalanced but why state that it was working as intended on the ustream only to 180 on that 1 week later ?
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The most likely explanation is that no one really bothered to look closely at how rains were operating and it wasn't until a mounting concern from the player base drew their attention to it.
If it was WAI the player call for examination would have been met with "we have examined it and it is working how we intended it to work in rains". End of story. Similar to shield charge it was probably just overlooked and even when initially brought to Castles attention he didn't take a close look.
The alternative is that it WAS working how they wanted it to work in rains and they are just really bad game designers... and the handful of people on the forums/ingame complaining about it got them to rethink their stance on designing their game. I don't think that is likely though.
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Not in rains they weren't. They just didn't hold a candle to the nuke rain power, but rest assured something like diamagnetic stacked to the limit (almost instantly) over a large aoe was very good indeed. Just why would anyone go that route when you could nuke that same spawn?
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Originally Posted by Necrotech_Master
the only interface that was overpowered was the reactive DoT, pretty much all the debuff effects of interface i would consider extremely underpowered and hardly if even noticeable
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I have now tested Diamagnetic, and it works the same as reactive, proccing every 10 seconds in rains and auras.
HOWEVER
There is another change to how Interface works in rains and auras. It only procs on one target. That is right, AoE powers which are rains, patches, or auras can now only proc the interface on one target at a time (regular AoEs still proc the Interface on everything they hit).
Please let that last part be a bug, because that seems WRONG.
Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
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the debuffs can only stack a max of 4 times while the DoT had a higher stack limit|
Originally Posted by FrostyG
Not in rains they weren't. They just didn't hold a candle to the nuke rain power, but rest assured something like diamagnetic stacked to the limit (almost instantly) over a large aoe was very good indeed. Just why would anyone go that route when you could nuke that same spawn?
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the debuffs are also so small and the fact they are resistable means they do diddly to a tough target like an AV and weaker baddies die too fast anyway for the full debuff to really mean anything
Regarding the Ustream comment about Interface in rains being WAI... did it ever occur to you guys that maybe the devs are individuals rather than brain-linked to a game design hive mind? And maybe they don't all know everything about every aspect of the game?
Issue 16 made me feel like this.
Warning: This poster likes to play Devil's Advocate.
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You need to learn how to read|
Originally Posted by Vanden
You seriously need a change of perspective if you think Reactive is garbage just because it doesn't turn rains into nukes.
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| Thats not the problem. The problem is anyone that took an interface on the basis it would be best for them is going to quite likely find they have a load of garbage. Some way to break down crafted interfaces seems in order. |
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Someone from QA said it was WAI. QA is not Powers Team. QA thinks in terms of "is that a bug?" not "is that overpowered?". |
Originally Posted by Another_Fan
Sure reactive had to be nerfed, either that or the rest of interface rebalanced but why state that it was working as intended on the ustream only to 180 on that 1 week later ?
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It wasn't a bug. It was an unintended function of rains that hadn't been reined in yet.
And if the change is overcompensated (it only procs on one target), then, let them know as feedback rather than running around with hair on fire. The balancing of the power is obviously in flux. It wouldn't be a sure thing to think that the way it is on test will be the way it will be forever.
Speeding Through New DA Repeatables || Spreadsheet o' Enhancements || Zombie Skins: better skins for these forums || Guide to Guides
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Would it have killed the powers team to say it was being looked at ?
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Originally Posted by Zombie Man
Someone for QA said it was WAI. QA is not Powers Team. QA thinks in terms of "is that a bug?" not "is that overpowered?".
It wasn't a bug. It was an unintended function of rains that hadn't been reined in yet. |
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Only a few days after The Net said it was working as intended he posted that they were looking into the issue. They did exactly what you said they should have. Are you happy now?|
Originally Posted by Another_Fan
Would it have killed the powers team to say it was being looked at ?
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As far as more testing goes, I have confirmed with my /Fire blaster that while running Hot Feet, the proc only goes off every 10 seconds, just like my Armageddon proc. However, the Armageddon proc will still hit multiple targets but the Interface is only affecting one at a time.
I believe the interface procs should not have the target limit. They do not have a target limit in standard AoEs, the 10 second rule is an appropriate limiter for rains and auras, the target limit is not.
Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
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Wow you really stretch. After searching I managed to find his post in the D.O.T and procs thread. A thread that the original post was about how they worked|
Originally Posted by StratoNexus
Only a few days after The Net said it was working as intended he posted that they were looking into the issue. They did exactly what you said they should have. Are you happy now?
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Originally Posted by Angelic_EU
It might be a long-held misunderstanding of mine. But I kept thinking that DoT powers (like those in Fire Melee) have a big chance of triggering a proc.
Recently I am levelling up a Traps/DPs. I slot a +smashing damage proc into Empty Clips to see the effect. But it does not go off as often I originally thought. I thought as a DoT (with fire ammo too) it would go off almost every time I use it. But it only goes off once in a while. So, it is not true that DoT powers trigger Procs more often? Thanks for the clarification. |
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Unresistable effects are a can of worms that are hard to deal with. It's why so few player powers are unresistable. It isn't by accident.|
Originally Posted by Necrotech_Master
the debuffs can only stack a max of 4 times while the DoT had a higher stack limit
the debuffs are also so small and the fact they are resistable means they do diddly to a tough target like an AV and weaker baddies die too fast anyway for the full debuff to really mean anything |
That said, turning sleet into a 20% tohit debuff on top of everything else it already does is not a trivial or meaningless debuff (pre changes). But again, no one in their right mind would have taken that path when you could turn it into a sleet-nuke.
The initial reports sound like the changes are too harsh, or not quite working the way they probably should be, but that can hopefully be hashed out.
Either way, this is called the Test Server for a reason....
Don't I know you???
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yes -20% tohit can be a high amount of debuff, but the only things that will get the full effect of a resistable debuff is even con baddies that do not have any resistance to it, a lvl 54 AV will resist that by ~85% and it will drop that -20% tohit maybe -4% which is negligible (purple patch doesnt apply because the debuff is applied to self)|
Originally Posted by FrostyG
Unresistable effects are a can of worms that are hard to deal with. It's why so few player powers are unresistable. It isn't by accident.
That said, turning sleet into a 20% tohit debuff on top of everything else it already does is not a trivial or meaningless debuff (pre changes). But again, no one in their right mind would have taken that path when you could turn it into a sleet-nuke. The initial reports sound like the changes are too harsh, or not quite working the way they probably should be, but that can hopefully be hashed out. |
most minions and LTs would be dead prolly before you got to that -20% tohit anyway and they would always take the full debuff hit since they dont have resistance to it, the only thing it might help you with is bosses, which on teams still dont last very long to matter
the only other reason i say they should be unresistable is because the stack limit is very very low and it takes ALL sources into account, so 24 poeple in a BAF cant stack more than x4 of the debuff on one of the AVs
while solo it would help a lot but in a team setting it does little to nothing, which is why i still think they would be unresistable, i mean it is an incarnate ability and the current version of it feels extremely underpowered unless your using reactive for the DoT
Looks like a 52MB patch hitting Test (US).
Are we gonna see Patch notes on this soon?
Thank you for the time...