Update to test (05/17/11)

For the same reason you would want a respec for regular powers: you invested a chunk of time getting an ability only to realize that it doesn't perform in the way you hoped and you'd like to go with something else. Or in this case, the devs have nerfed or "bug fixed" certain abilities so that they are no longer desired (the broken reactive fix isn't surprising, the second nerf to ion is ridiculous and doubt many people will want it in lieu of straight up damage from one of the other paths).

I've gotten incarnate abilities on three characters now. In some cases it took weeks to get a vr drop. I don't want to have to sit through endless BAFs in order to switch over to another configuration. I don't know what's hard to get about that unless maybe you just delete characters and re-level them every time you want to make a change.

Get off your high and mighty chair if you want anyone to take anything you say serious. Because I sure as hell didn't form an opinion off anyone here other than you. I don't accept the statement he made as a valid reason for a fix. Given how long the power has indeed been out and the number of red names that said it was working as intended. I think rather than admit they made a mistake in judgment when creating this power they would rather say it was a bug just to nerf it. Its not the first time it's happened and it certainly won't be the last. (see blessing of zephyr nerf)

They never said BotZ was a bug. As a matter of fact they specifically admitted they made a mistake in judgment.

As far as I know, we had only one red-name say Interface+rains/patches/auras was working as intended and they retracted that pretty quickly. It seems pretty likely they wanted Reactive to act like any other proc, just that it would work in all your powers instead of just one and that the higher tiers could be more potent.

Dev post on the BotZ change.

Relevant quote for those who would rather not link to that thread.

I think it's safe to assume very few if no one is taking *you* seriously right now, sir, so I'm not really all that worried. Also, people can make up their own minds about weather to take me seriously or not, no skin off my nose if they choose not to.

Seems like you formed the opinion that black scorpion is a liar. by "not accepting the statement he made as a valid reason for a fix", you are in a roundabout way, without saying the exact words, calling him a liar, because you're saying his statement is untrue.

"How long the power has been out" has nothing to do with weather this particular event/effect is a bug or not. Hell, Rikti Pylons have been using ranged defense values to calculate their swarm missile strike since the day they came into the game, but that was just recently repaired to correctly use AOE defense values (which is a "nerf" to the players, since generally people have lower AoE def than they do ranged def).

That's beisde the point though, the thread made clear that another fix a patch or two back that fixed a pet issue with the Incarnate powers caused this bug, and it's now being fixed, it hasn't been there since i20 launched, nor has it been there since i20 beta, as it never came up in beta, so complaining about the Beta process and/or the QA department won't help you here either.

How many red names said it was working as intended? What are their board handles, can you link to posts made by them that indcate such, or link to the ustream chat, and give time coordinates where it was stated?

Don't need to touch this part, the rest of the thread respondants have handled it. I think we're done here.

The powers team never said it was WAI. After a Q&A person said it was WAI, it was later clarified that it was being looked at. Back in the day the controller epics were doing too much damage. The player base even admitted as such during beta. It went live as is and they were deemed WAI. About 6 issues later, the epics get nerfed because in the end they found out those powers were too powerful. In short, to raise issue with this is completely ignoring this game's history in changes. Hell, I saw this type of change coming from a mile away.

This has been my point the entire time. Rains were rediculously OP, and now that the "Broken Fix" has gone live, the some of us get to be punished because one tiny subset of powers were insanely OP.

No one was standing around with a damage aura going and wiping out +4 spawns in seconds - not even with 2 auras could I approach that level of damage from Interface as it originally worked. Was I getting too much out of them? Sure, but seriously, would it have been so bad if it were an 8 sec timer? Or 6? 2 or 4 would probably still be OP. But a faster tick timer would be good for the ones that don't have a damage component also. I know they are numerically "better" than IO procs - but why *shouldn't* they be?

I hate to be a jerk about it; but you guys (imo) dropped the ball on sending the broken patch live. Period. I'm saying that as a player who doesn't have any ATs that carry Rains, much less do I actively play any Rains. None. I have to say that it feels like I am being punished because my delinquint (sp) younger brother broke all the fancy dinner plates.

I would have settled for the lousy 10s thing; even though I personally don't see the harm in compromising and giving Interface a better proc rate than invention procs - but whatever. It would have made ALL interface choices more desirable. But no.

10secs it is, okay, fine. Grudging acceptance here. The 1 target bug is just unacceptable though.

The problem is that, if anything, it makes the rest of Interface even LESS desirable for any character that is damage oriented. Why bother with a trivial debuff when there is damage to be had? I STILL can't think of any reason why I would take any of the other ones on any characters I would play through to 50. I guess it's just the irony. In trying to make Reactive less powerful and the other interface powers more desirable; you have achieved the former, and the opposite of the latter.

Which is just ... sad ... The rest of Interface needs some love.

So my only question is this:

When can we expect a fix?


Edit:

I did want ask a question to those concerned over "fairness" in power choices - do you consider it unfair that the only way to buff Judgement damage is to carry Musculature? This effectively locks you into your Alpha choice if you are overly concerned about such things.

It's worth noting that the Rain powers and others like them are pseudopet powers. They themselves activate a damage aura, so damage auras and rain powers and the like are indellibly linked, they work of the same tech, so unless the game were re-coded (which is silly for this minor of an issue) both will have to be affected at once. Also, every other proc obeys the 10 second rule. It has nothing to do with them "needing a little more" it's the fact that interface's stated power 'goal' is to behave as those you had a global proc in each of your damage powers. That's exactly what it does (not counting the 1 target bug that will be fixed). So by that logic, it should obey the rules of every other proc, it's just a global proc.

You *will* settle for the "lousy 10s thing" because that's how procs work, that's just how it is.

Sure, it's unacceptable, but it's more unacceptable for the rest of us to sit and watch the fire rain guys slaughter an entire spawn, and clean up while the bug stays in place. This is the lesser of two evils.

That logic is rediculous. It's a strawman at best. My Inv/SS tank was planning on taking the reactive -Res debuff since before Interface was released, she still plans on doing it, and neither the previou state nor the current "fix" changes that. For the majority of us not using the affected powers, life goes on, and nothing changes.


In the interest of getting the issue resolved and to stop the complaining, I am also curious about this, any ETA?


That's not an issue. That's like saying "I can't maximize the damage of foot stomp unless I put 3 damages in it, but if I do that I can only put so many accuracies/recharges/endurance reducers in it." It's simply a playstyle choice. if damage matters that much to you, you'll slot the alpha for damage, that's pretty much common sense. It's what I did with my tank, because out of all the things she has, her damage is her weakest point. That's not the same as an issue with a bug, that's just a play choice, games are full of those.

That's not the only reason. The Steam Punk Pack goes on sale in 6 days. It was also included in this patch. There probably wasn't enough time to decouple the two (or fix the bug for that matter), get it through QA, prepared for download, and in place in time for that launch.

If it had been a game breaking bug, they would have delayed the patch. However it's not. It's inconvenient, and a bit unfair, but in the end it's a minor bit of pain that will be resolved soon.

Thank you for the coding breakdown. I had the basic idea, but see below for why I wanted to comment on this thread post live.


I am, just like everyone else on this board, a paying customer of this game. As such I am fully within my rights to express my opinion on aspects of said game. Saying "That's just how it is," is of no import. Over the course of this game mane things that were "just how it is" have been changed, and even if there is 0 possiblity if it being changed or completely unreasonable to code I still have the right, as a paying customer, to express my opinion on said same.


I cannot be the only person who was never bothered by this, can I? Who cares if the guy over my shoulder just nuked a spawn with a broken power? A: The broken-ness will get fixed soon enough, and B: we just got through this (tip mission for the 11ty-th time, trial for the 17th time, task force for the 5th time, itf for the 30th time, insert anything here) that much faster.

We'll agree to disagree on which evil was lesser. I'd rather have something patched once and be done than sit through another round of broken.

Except that you've made half of my point (as also expressed earlier in this thread); that the other Interface powers are effectively pointless for the types of characters that many people play, and that even "fixing" reactive doesn't change that.

Why not make the other ones better, although perhaps that's just a separate issue.

I was geniunely curious. I don't see it as an issue, but it's not all that different from the idea that Reactive did, and in many ways still does, favor certain powers and power sets.

Lol yes I expressed this sentiment earlier and nobody replied. We are talking about level 50 characters with incarnate buffs. Not only are you wading through content that has been done over and over again, there are plenty of high damage powers in play that are going to do the same thing. When someone talks about the reactive rains as the "greater evil", to the extent they would prefer a broken fix go into play..honestly I feel that these people probably just don't know how to build or run their teams efficiently. "The rain guys throw their nukes and we're left cleaning up"--really?

Also, I have heard this from people ingame but I haven't come across a post on the forums--apparently reactive is bugged by more than just the "1 target on aoe powers" glitch. I've been told that it is also glitched so that if reactive does proc, then none of the other IO procs slotted in that power will work. If someone can confirm this one way or the other that would be great. For the time being i'm holding off slotting it in my characters.