All Things Art - FX Edition
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AkuTenshiiZero,
Posted on: 2011-05-11 15:59 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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I'm one of those that like the current Granite Armor look.|
Originally Posted by Schismatrix
Would it be possible to implement the non-DE version of Granite as an alternate animation/effect, or does it have to be one or the other?
i'd prefer a more generic version that doesn't completely replace the costume, but i can understand the point of view of the players who like the current version. i've known several players who used the current version of Granite Armor to make characters who would transform from a petite character into hulking masses of rock and i can understand them not wanting to lose that ability. |
Would I like to be able to customize it? You betcha'....but...one or the other? Hmm....well....*shrugs* would like to see what the other option is before I say yes to it.
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Originally Posted by Tunnel Rat
You can have this RITE NAO! With I21's launch, Boils has a Head and Head and Arms option. (The Feathers aura should also have a light version.) I omitted it initially because I couldn't imagine anyone wanting boils on just their heads. Then I saw your awesome character concept and I was enlightened.
 Sorry about the wait on this one. Unfortunately I checked it in too late to make the I20.5 patches. |
Okay... I love you!
In a perfectly healthy, platonic way, of course!Do not apologize for anything!! You are too kind... and fantastic job!! That is awesome! Thank you!!
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Originally Posted by Tunnel Rat
I can understand your request for a Slime head aura, but unfortunately with the very vertical shape and movement of the sprites involved, they would either be obscured by or clip noticeably with the head.
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Also, I'm excited about what you may figure out regarding weapon auras! That is definitely something I would love to see in this game! Good luck!
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Originally Posted by Tunnel Rat
In other news, I expressed on the last Ustream marathon that I believed Granite Armor could be made customizable. I'll be devoting some of my free time to exploring this possibility. The trade-off would be that the Devouring Earth model is done away with, and replaced with a more generic-looking model that is placed over the character's body, similar to the rest of the Stone Armor powers.
I'd like to hear your thoughts on this trade-off. Thanks to those who have already posted their opinions! |
It's funny, I don't see myself making a Stone Armor character, mostly due to the look of Granite Armor... BUT I really wouldn't wish people who love it to have it removed.
I do believe in the old motto of, add, never remove... When it comes to things that people have grown attached to in these games.
I guess what exactly you mean by "a more generic-looking model" is crucial to a definite answer... because if it could somewhat replicate the current Granite Armor... then maybe it is better.
Still... I feel for people who are attached to things (especially for as many years as that option has existed).
I had a game company remove things that many of us loved for several years... then it was gone... and that wasn't cool! So, yeah... as awesome as your discovery sounds, I'm not sure I'd vote for it (although, I am completely curious what it would look like now, lol).
Way to go, Tunnel Rat! Thanks for being awesome!
@Zethustra
"Now at midnight all the agents and the superhuman crew come out
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
Absolutely against a Granite Armor removal. It's the only reason I play Stone Armor. I want to play as a big bulky thing occasionally. If you have to remove it, I'd sure want some free enhancement-unslotters to kill off my tank who's been 50 for, oh, I don't know how many years now. There is literally nothing you can do with crappy stackable armor graphics (even making me able to use other armors WITH Granite Armor) that would make this pleasing to me.
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Oh, hey...
I saw you guys asking about possible new emotes in the ustream, hehe...
Off the top of my head, there's one somewhat silly one I'd still like to see.
Another Air Guitar.
The one we have is a fast, bang-your-head punchy rhythm-guitar version...
But, I'd love to have a smooth, guitar solo looking one as well.
Something that looks more like you're playing air guitar to the solo in Stairway To Heaven. It may be best as a one-time animation, instead of a looped one.
Just a quick flourish, something like: arching your back, stepping forward and moving your hand up the guitar neck to hit that sweet note, hehe... Oh YEAH! 
lol
A Stretch emote (getting limbered up, usually while waiting for everyone to be ready to start combat) and/or a big Yawn are things I've noticed missing when hanging around and doing some role-playing and such.
Just figured I'd throw those out there (not sure if this is a good place for it).
@Zethustra
"Now at midnight all the agents and the superhuman crew come out
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
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As my Stone/Fire tank is volcano themed and I already use all the alternative lava power effects I've always wanted to change Granite to look something like a Magmite Lord.|
Originally Posted by Tunnel Rat
In other news, I expressed on the last Ustream marathon that I believed Granite Armor could be made customizable. I'll be devoting some of my free time to exploring this possibility. The trade-off would be that the Devouring Earth model is done away with, and replaced with a more generic-looking model that is placed over the character's body, similar to the rest of the Stone Armor powers.
I'd like to hear your thoughts on this trade-off. Thanks to those who have already posted their opinions! |
http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Minions_...s#Magmite_Lord
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I can see why this would be an either-or decision, and I think that some players might rather like the granite tanks they've played the last seven years. So, I feel obliged to point out that this is only my personal opinion:|
Originally Posted by Tunnel Rat
In other news, I expressed on the last Ustream marathon that I believed Granite Armor could be made customizable. I'll be devoting some of my free time to exploring this possibility. The trade-off would be that the Devouring Earth model is done away with, and replaced with a more generic-looking model that is placed over the character's body, similar to the rest of the Stone Armor powers.
I'd like to hear your thoughts on this trade-off. Thanks to those who have already posted their opinions! |
YES! Yes, please.
I have started many characters in the game. Some of them made it to 50, some didn't. The one set I never even considered when rolling a new character was Stone Armor. And that's because I knew my character would look exactly like any other stone tank once he learned Granite Armor.
I don't know about other players, but in order to be played again, my characters need to grow their own identity. They have to "feel right". How they look is very much part of that.
Thank you,
10joy
I've always had a strange love-hate with granite. On the one hand, I like the shapeshift option for the aforementioned "tiny thing into towering giant" bit. On the other, customization is always good. Unfortunately, powers aspects would keep it from combining with other armors visually, so the Granite armor would have to stand alone.
Would it be possible, I'd kind of hope for similar customization to existing stone options (rock/lava/crystal Granite). I know the possibility to make a "diamond tank" would vastly outweigh the old granite model for me if the new model looked good. Hopefully it'd be symmetrical. The other stone armors looked...clunky in their asymmetry, compared to more symmetrical Granite.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
You're right: this whole issue is a money grab. We're going to be grabbing money from impatient people with money to burn and completionist complexes, and using it to make a better game for everyone, including the 99.9% of the rest of the playerbase that isn't going to be buying everything, multiple times, immediately upon release, and spending hundreds of dollars in the process.
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By the way - for those who want to be giant and made of stone, would using a separate costume with the Huge model and all the sliders maxed out work? That's probably what I'd do to retain my "giant stone thing" form if Granite were made to no longer be hideous.
Like I said, though, I'm biassed in that I never liked Granite Armour to begin with.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Wow! So many people with great ideas, I feel my request going be much too simple in comparison but if at all possible maybe the halo options could being moved from the auras? I would liking to use path aura rainbow and golden halo at same time if there was anyway possible.
Thank you Tunnel!
Soon�
"Originally Posted by Tunnel Rat
In other news, I expressed on the last Ustream marathon that I believed Granite Armor could be made customizable. I'll be devoting some of my free time to exploring this possibility. The trade-off would be that the Devouring Earth model is done away with, and replaced with a more generic-looking model that is placed over the character's body, similar to the rest of the Stone Armor powers.
I'd like to hear your thoughts on this trade-off. Thanks to those who have already posted their opinions!"
OK, I really do understand the transforming aspect of granite... I used it in my concept too knowing what was coming with granite armor.
But after 4 years of turning into "big pile o generic rocks that move" it's time to get some options there!
Definitely would like to see some of the concepts you can come up with based on a revised model.
Definitely need the basic categories of color differentiation and material differentiation.
I like the idea of being able to be a Magma Lord concept.
If the option were to be made available, perhaps a special character body type respec could be made available for purchase on the market? I've always wondered why we could replace the entire costume, even to the point of turning a human into a monster or robot, but we couldn't change size.
"It is that balance, the ground between EB and AV, where the PvP struggle should exist. Where a 1v1 becomes a struggle of equals, and 1vMany gives the benefit to the 1."
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A question, would it not be easier to just add a particle effect to a weapon, and then make that weapon a selectable option in the weapon menu?|
Originally Posted by Tunnel Rat
I wouldn't call it new tech, though maybe a new technique. I believe the solution would be similar to what we did for Path Auras, which activate with an indicated animation state. If each weapon has its own animation state, the need to add an unwieldy number of options in the menu may be eliminated.
I agree with BaBs that having to implement all those menu options would be a deal-breaker. I'll spend some time on this and see what's possible. |
I can see where allowing an aura to be placed on it would be the better option because of the range of effects it would allow, but I can also see where it may be the harder option.
Now, I will admit I don't know how your system functions. So I know I may be way off base here. I do know I would prefer to add the aura to my weapon from the aura menu, but at this point I would also be happy with a version of weapons with just the standard 4 elements.
As for granite armor changes, I would prefer anything over looking like a walking turd. I tend to skip any power that obliterates my costume. Many of us spend hours making costumes, and we have no desire to wipe them out using a power.
Oh, and just about ANY change to Hasten FX would be better than what we have now. Again, I would like the 4 elements in the long run, but I would just be happy for the effing flaming hands to go away for now. I really can't stress (within the forum rules) how much I hate the Hasten FX. Pretty sure I am not alone in that.
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This would actually entice me to play a stone tank. I've always wanted to as I've heard the talk of Granite Armor basically making you unkillable, but not being able to customize the look made it a deal breaker. "Yeah, you can be one of those super-tough tanks! You'll look just like every other guy that uses it too!" Bleh.|
Originally Posted by Tunnel Rat
In other news, I expressed on the last Ustream marathon that I believed Granite Armor could be made customizable. I'll be devoting some of my free time to exploring this possibility. The trade-off would be that the Devouring Earth model is done away with, and replaced with a more generic-looking model that is placed over the character's body, similar to the rest of the Stone Armor powers.
I'd like to hear your thoughts on this trade-off. Thanks to those who have already posted their opinions! |
In the interest of fairness, I'd feel compelled to ask if there would be a legacy model option though? Perhaps you can have the classic model as the default and under customization you have the new model?
Also, is it possible to give us a couple of options for the alternate models? Perhaps a big lumbering rock monster type option (Available in standard, gem and magma options of course!) and a sleeker "greek statuesque" style option (Again with the three options available), perhaps one or two more options if someone can come up with something else suiting? I know the power basically replaces the playe rmodel with a new one, that much has been made clear, but if we're going as far as to offer customization for it then we might as well have a couple options for those of us who'd like to make a big, hulking behemoth of stone who smashes things to bits with super strength, or those who would rather have a slender, graceful pillar of strength who uses kinetic melee.
And last comment I swear, if we DO get new options and they include a slender-type model, could that possibly open up the door for Stone/Claws brutes?
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You can with the super tailer make a huge model with alot of the omega parts in your second slot and make a macro for granite that switches you to that other slot and turns on granite (and do a costume change emote along with it!). That should get you the rock monster transform that is fully customizable without the game forcing all granites to look the same. It would also be nice if via power customization some powers like granite would allow us to pick a costume slot that could skirt the 30 second rule and just switch to that whenever the power is activated and switch back to slot 1 when the power shuts off.
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
On the downside, transforming my character into a giant monster of solid rock was fun, and it was the cornerstone - if you'll pardon the pun - of one of my signature characters. On the upside, the existing model is terribad and I would not be sad to see it go for a moment.
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No. BABs told us this straight to our faces several years ago and Tunnel Rat just confirmed this in pretty unambiguous terms, as well. Adding Painted Broadsword, Painted Broadsword Fire, Painted Broadsword Glow, Painted Broadsword Smoke, etc. all to the same linear list is not acceptable, is far too much work and is far too difficult to maintain if any changes need to be done to anything. Making multiple duplicates of every weapon is not a workable solution.|
Originally Posted by Zyphoid
A question, would it not be easier to just add a particle effect to a weapon, and then make that weapon a selectable option in the weapon menu?
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What Tunnel Rat suggested - at least what I infer she was implying - was to add an aura similar to Costume Auras in the form of a weapon held in the hand of a player model, keyed to only play when a weapon was drawn in a similar way that Combat Auras only play when a character in any of the many combat mode activation sequences. This has the upside of only needing a small selection of auras to be made, which would then apply to all weapons as well as keeping the lists from being cluttered. This also has the downside of this aura not matching most weapons very closely and possibly tying up our sole aura slot.
An additional solution which I suspect may be viable, but for which Standard Code Rant applies, would be to code weapons like Shields. If you've noticed, a shield is essentially a separate model linked to our character rig, but that model has its own mounting points for things like spikes, skulls, emblems, effects and so forth. Weapons should be able to be done the same way, so that a sword could have a single mounting point for an aura out of a list of auras made specifically for that sword. The upside of this would be that each weapon would have an aura that fits it and that would still not clutter the list or create multiple duplicates. The downside to this is that it requires a lot of work to make several auras per weapon, and it probably requires even more work to re-rig existing weapons to have mounting points for auras in the first place.
In either case, I'm optimistic about Tunnel Rat's "can do" attitude towards the problem and I'm keeping my fingers crossed that my fears are just a combination of paranoia and my profound ignorance of the underlying systems.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Yeah, I kind of had a similar idea here:|
Originally Posted by Mephe
You can with the super tailer make a huge model with alot of the omega parts in your second slot and make a macro for granite that switches you to that other slot and turns on granite (and do a costume change emote along with it!). That should get you the rock monster transform that is fully customizable without the game forcing all granites to look the same. It would also be nice if via power customization some powers like granite would allow us to pick a costume slot that could skirt the 30 second rule and just switch to that whenever the power is activated and switch back to slot 1 when the power shuts off.
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
By the way - for those who want to be giant and made of stone, would using a separate costume with the Huge model and all the sliders maxed out work? That's probably what I'd do to retain my "giant stone thing" form if Granite were made to no longer be hideous.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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+1 x 1,000 I would love to see this. |
Originally Posted by X_the_Gambler
Could we get an Aura, which looks like the Rocket Boots, just that it would work with fly and jump/superjump?
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| In other news, I expressed on the last Ustream marathon that I believed Granite Armor could be made customizable. I'll be devoting some of my free time to exploring this possibility. The trade-off would be that the Devouring Earth model is done away with, and replaced with a more generic-looking model that is placed over the character's body, similar to the rest of the Stone Armor powers. |
I could see Granite Armor having the following options.
Crystal
Lava
Stone
Crystal Huge
Lava Huge
Stone Huge
I am not that familiar with all of stones customizations, so if I missed any fill in the blanks as needed. The first set would be more standard sized models, the second set would be sized to match the current size of Granite Armor.
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Any chance that working it into the Costume Editor could happen AFTER Weapon Auras were added to the game? By which I mean, I think that it would be a good enough compromise to add Weapon Auras to the game that are initiated with slash-commands for many of us who want them, and have done so for years.|
Originally Posted by Tunnel Rat
I wouldn't call it new tech, though maybe a new technique. I believe the solution would be similar to what we did for Path Auras, which activate with an indicated animation state. If each weapon has its own animation state, the need to add an unwieldy number of options in the menu may be eliminated.
I agree with BaBs that having to implement all those menu options would be a deal-breaker. I'll spend some time on this and see what's possible. |
Just an idea for you, in case it becomes problematic to add Weapon Auras to the Costume Editor. I say this because I'd be willing to use slash-commands in-game for Power Customization, say, using something like the Nuke ccemote for Super Strength Foot Stomp by way of macros or keybinds.
(Or Air Guitar for Sonic Emission powers, or the Come Get Some / Bring It emotes for taunting, etc. The list is endless what we could do if there were an ability to use emotes for power animations by way of slash-commands.)
Rough examples? I know my syntax will be wrong but bear with me...
/weaponaura_Lightning
/weaponaura_Fire $$ /send local "Kill it with FIRE!"
/anireplace "Nuke ccemote $$ Foot Stomp"
/anireplace "airguitar $$ Sonic Cage"
I know that the slash-command system isn't the most user-friendly, but if - IF - it's easier for you to do them that way than adding these same options to the Costume Editor, perhaps they'd be a superior choice until they WERE added to the Editor? Food for thought...
@Raven Lord
EDIT: On further thought, I guess what I'm proposing as a compromise is Weapon Auras as an emote, like the Fly Poses are. Sure, you'd have to activate it via keybind or macro frequently during one's gaming session, but that would seem better to me than not having them at all, right?
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In this case, Who first.|
Originally Posted by Tunnel Rat
Hi guys! First off, thanks for all the fantastic footage and information on Dr. Who! Looks like I have another TV show to get into (maybe after I see Ghostbusters 2).
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In other news, I expressed on the last Ustream marathon that I believed Granite Armor could be made customizable. I'll be devoting some of my free time to exploring this possibility. The trade-off would be that the Devouring Earth model is done away with, and replaced with a more generic-looking model that is placed over the character's body, similar to the rest of the Stone Armor powers. I'd like to hear your thoughts on this trade-off. Thanks to those who have already posted their opinions! |
(Ask Beastyle, he'll get it.)
I'm never been a fan of the DE 'Rocksuit' as it completely removes the costume I spent hours on getting right! (yes, hours).
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I don't know.
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Originally Posted by Derangedpolygot
In this case, Who first.
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@Zethustra
"Now at midnight all the agents and the superhuman crew come out
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
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I'm thinking that allowing a two color custom tint for it, which basically divides into waist-up and waist-down would probably be the best. That way players can color match to the "dominant" color of their Tops and Bottoms as closely as is reasonable for their costumes would be the way to go with this ... if you port over Synapse's blur aura. Expecting something which would "copy/paste" the outlines of the character's costume(s) as completely as the custom build for Synapse would be ... a bit much. That sort of customization is "fine" for an NPC who only wears 1 costume, but wouldn't really "work" all that well for PCs with costumes that can vary as much as PCs do.|
Originally Posted by Tunnel Rat
Something like the Synapse aura is simple enough to implement for players. It can't be custom-tailored to the pattern of your costume like Synapse's is, but it can certainly be color customizable with one color as an aura, or with two colors as a theoretical alternative to Speed pool power effects.
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Here's a trick question I have for people with respect to Tunnel Rat's experimentation with reworking Granite.
- Is it *reasonable* to expect Granite to be a Costume Obscuring power?
This is important, because as soon as you abandon the notion that you *have to* be able to see your Character's Base Costume underneath the Granite ... you liberate the artist (in this case, Tunnel Rat) to explore all kinds of other "looks" that you simply can't do if you have to adhere strictly to a "show the costume" limitation.
Another important question that needs to be answered with any remake of Granite is ...
- Should the Granite power maintain the Character's size? Or should Granite remain a "Huge-ish" Model (just not a DE copy)?
It's the end. But the moment has been prepared for ...
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Not really. I'll admit I spent about 5 minutes throwing this costume together, but style was less important to me then comparing size and proportion. All sliders are maxed and I used the biggest costume options I could think of.|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
By the way - for those who want to be giant and made of stone, would using a separate costume with the Huge model and all the sliders maxed out work? That's probably what I'd do to retain my "giant stone thing" form if Granite were made to no longer be hideous.
Like I said, though, I'm biassed in that I never liked Granite Armour to begin with. |
Height wise is pretty much the same. The costume option came out a little thicker. The point where the npc option pulls ahead with me is the proportions. The npc model looks more like a monster to me especially with the longer arms. It also has the slabs of rock that currently can not be replicated in the character creator.
There are three flowers in a vase, the third flower is green.
Hey Tunnel Rat, remember that thing you said last time you posted here about putting additive particles in from of nonadditive particles? I think you really ought to consider doing that for the new Volcanic Aura, because right now the "lava" is too transparent to actually look like lava.
Issue 16 made me feel like this.
Warning: This poster likes to play Devil's Advocate.
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You know there would be actual rock geometry added, right?
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Originally Posted by Strigadi
Not really. I'll admit I spent about 5 minutes throwing this costume together, but style was less important to me then comparing size and proportion. All sliders are maxed and I used the biggest costume options I could think of.
Height wise is pretty much the same. The costume option came out a little thicker. The point where the npc option pulls ahead with me is the proportions. The npc model looks more like a monster to me especially with the longer arms. It also has the slabs of rock that currently can not be replicated in the character creator. |
Issue 16 made me feel like this.
Warning: This poster likes to play Devil's Advocate.
Hey Tunnel Rat, any chance that we could get a "dark" version of the new Volcano aura? Similar to how many powersets have both dark and light versions in terms of luma and alpha relationships.
Edit to add: I agree with Vanden regarding the opacity of this aura. Also, I get what the animator (whether it was you or another art team member) was after with this, it feels like it would read better as lava if it moved a bit more sluggishly. Feels very fast currently. Perhaps if it could be stretched to 200% or more duration, it will more successfully convey that heavy gloppy lava feeling. But as a poster above indicates, yes, it does make great splashy water right now when recolored.
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