So, I did a Sutter TF today.

Well, I like pretty much everything about the Sutter TF. I organized one on Protector this weekend and we did it in about an hour and I'm fairly sure everyone had fun (and I found 3 shards and the Notice which was my motivation).

I was the only one to die to the air strikes (right after telling everyone not to depend on their defense ). Duray didn't teleport for us but we (or rather "they" since I was heading back from the hospital) did kill him pretty darn fast. I was very proud of my team.

I've run it twice now, both on relatively random teams, both with only one controller, and while we had to chase him around a lot on the first run, it was by no means impossible... full of debt for the non-50's certainly which is why I hope they slow down the teleports in a near-future patch.

I love this TF. Had tons of fun. I'd play these new TFs over the old crap like Manti/Synapse/etc. any day.

I did the Sutter TF recently for the first time, and while we had a good time with it, I was thinking if we'd tried it with a team in the 20s, it might have been impossibly difficult. Just the groups of Warwalkers could be rough on a minimally slotted tank, let alone trying to deal with multiple AVs and air attacks and the teleporting thing. One of the lvl 50s on the team with us had to be persuaded to come along by a friend, because he had been on 2 tries of it previously that failed. Our team had 5 defenders, all of us who regularly played with each other, and we still had easily 15 deaths in the air attack mission. I was also only able to find the exit from the hospital area because I followed someone else, and had to be teleported out of the first ship because I couldn't find the exit.

I think it could be made a bit more reasonable for newer/lower level players to run by making a few tweaks, as have been suggested in this thread.

So far it looks like Golden Girl is the only one who likes the TF.

The only real problem I've had with the final fight in Sutter is the sudden, without warning airstrikes that were one-shotting my Defender through Temp Invuln. I love the strafing runs, but the bombs suck and I still don't know how they work. Also, bizarrely, I don't think either time I've run it I've ever seen Praetorian Duray summon clones...

I also strongly dislike how hyped the floating fortress was considering we don't really DO anything on it. And similarly, I strongly dislike the pointless optional objectives. I assume they can change the dialogue to some degree (the Admiral certainly can't remark that he's never lost a ship in the fleet yet if you don't save the one in danger), but that's largely meaningless when that dialogue is never seen by the whole team.

I should add that I also really like Sutter. It's rapidly becoming one of my favourite TFs but I also recognise there are huge problems with it.

I mostly play controllers and blasters and they don't have a problem getting around too much, especially with fly or a jetpack but being ranged are more flexible than others. I think I'd probably HATE to take on the Duray bros with an MM though.

It is significantly tougher for lower level characters - I've done it a few times and if on my IO'd 50s, it's a fun whizzthrough. If it's on a level 20 or thereabouts it's a seriously tough challenge that requires commitment and forethought.

And when I first saw the carnage in Skyway I was seriously taken aback - I was like "look what the bastards did to our home" - and that could be a serious story breaker because Skyway is fine the moment you come out of the mission. But now, players into RP would want to take the Skyraiders apart so we have a situation where the players are encouraged to move the story forward but unable to.

GG is kind of right, in that it does give the feel of our home being under threat - that atmosphere is very well created (even bombing the hospital - personally that's just another challenge to be avoided and it's easy enough to do as a non-pet player but I think MMs and some trollers could find it a problem) but once complete it's like it never happened.

"You got to dig it to dig it, you dig?"
Thelonious Monk

I like Sutter mechanically. The variety of threats and goals was fun, fighting giant robots on a battle fleet is awesome, and so are air strikes. I agree with Bill that a team of all level 20s would probably have some major trouble with it, but vast majority of TFs I've been on recently have been mostly people's exemplared 50s.

There is some master-class trolling going on in this thread.

But, just to reiterate, in case anyone missed it, I do enjoy the Sutter TF for the most part. I also do think it's a terrible mistake to add interesting optional objectives and then not have them actually do anything.

I think it's unfair to call GG a lamprey, though. She strikes me as having more of a commensal relationship with the developers: she depends on them, and they barely notice her one way or another. Just like the rest of us, pretty much.

Ran it last night. My Katana/Fire Aura scrapper laughed off most of the ghoul bombs but everyone else was making constant hospital runs. Durray was annoying beyond belief and mitigated any enjoyment I had experienced up to that point. I think we spent 45min on him.

I suppose more holds would help on Durray but, since there's no more substantial reward to entice me (like the Kal power), I can't see myself playing it again. There's more fun things to do in CoH.

Eh, it might be fun on my Earth/Storm 'troller.

That's the other thing that made me go 'wha?'.

Having now played them both the Kal SF has a significantly easier end encounter AND awards you a permatemp (until 50) which makes life easier as well as awarding a notice once you hit 50.

So...erm...why does the Kal SF award a pretty substantial reward and the Sutter SF award sweet FA beyond the usual merits and badge?

Another 'what the hell?' on the Kal/Sutter Reward differences.

Kal grants you something that boosts your stats until you hit 50. You can then turn that into an item that lets you get a rare Alpha slot without having to run the WTF.

Sutter gives nothing of the sort.

I'm undecided about some of the new content.

On the positive side I like Kal's SF it's great fun and some different enemies.

BAF I enjoy but not to do it more then twice in a session.

Negative side Apex. My hatred of this Trial is such that I don't do it now. After one which five times running as I was zoning back in a patch was laid. By the time I had zoned and was able to move again it was too late back to hospital.

In the middle.

Sutter is a bit like a curates egg good in parts. But another I won't lose any sleep if I don't run again.

Lambda I can take it or leave it. But I still need the Master Of, so I'll be running it a few more times yet.

One other thing I dislike is the Trial Master Ofs, call me old fashioned but I think a Master Of is for a perfect run not getting a badge today another in a few days time until you have them all. But that is me other I know prefer the new system.