Kinetics is kinda messed up...

IMO

Kin is just fine and balanced as a set, as is.

On my fire/kin I use IR as my sole travel power, well I did until ninja/beast came along. It supplements them very nicely. No wasting a prereq to get a travel power. Besides all the other details everyone else has provided.

On my Bots/FF MM I have a functional clone of repel and use it frequently, it doesn't mix well with fire control, hot feet being what it is, with other sets it can be very useful. I have had multiple bosses locked down with repulsion field, walk them into a corner and watch them bounce like popcorn while the pets eat them.

The problem with /Kin is that you have to many choices and to many powers just in /kin much less your other set to try and keep going while everyone is demanding SB pls, SB now, OMG give me SB, SBSBSBSBSBSB the second it runs out no matter how far away they have run.

I'd argue that /Kin is one of the strongest buff/debuff sets in the game, a little narrow in its focus, but very strong, as it now stands. There are other sets in much more need of developer attention. If it needs anything it is attention to the psuedo-pet it drops to heal or recover endurance. Make them more like lighting rod or static field.

I like Kinetics, but it does have flaws. There are almost certainly sets that deserve attention first, but nonetheless it would be nice to see them addressed.

There are two major issues: one is the buff-bot aspect, with Increase Density useful only situationally given its very short duration, and Speed Boost on a full team being a significant and needlessly repetitive fraction of play time; and the second is the lack of self-protection in a set which by design has the defender both near the action and drawing a lot of agro.

There is also the inconsistency of Repel: it doesn't fit thematically with the set, and acts against the nature of the set, which encourages the defender to be close to enemies. I'm sure some people love it, but to me it shouldn't even be in the set.

Before Siphon Speed was given a +recharge component, it was a disaster of a power. Temporary superspeed and single-target slow without stealth, with a long recharge, requiring a to-hit, which drew agro. It was debt in a can if used for travel, and woeful as a slow power. When people take it now, it is because of the +recharge.

Many suggestions have been made to improve the quality of life issues associated with keeping SB up on a team, and many of these replace it with some variation on a PBAoE power. Let's do that, making Siphon Speed redundant and saving buffing grief (I don't think most people enjoy the mechanical aspect of incessant single-target buffing. Someone referred to it as balance-through-tedium.) Siphon Speed is then freed to be an intrinsically useful power, rather than a sop to the inability for kinetics defenders to Speed Boost themselves.

The lack of self-defence is a real issue. Transfusion, Transference, Siphon Power, Fulcrum Shift, Siphon Speed — they all attract a lot of unwelcome attention. Yet the debuffs from these powers are nowhere near enough to deal with the consequences. As described above, Siphon Power's not much of a damage boost power, and its damage debuff ability is single-target and not enough without stacking to help much with survivability even with a single opponent. The stamina drain of Transference is not backed by any -recovery. The -regen with Transfusion is small (it would be nice to see this boosted to match some of the other defender primaries!) and not relevant to survivability. Siphon Speed is a single-target slow with a long recharge, that doesn't debuff recharge. Only Fulcrum Shift has the ability to make a measurable impact on incoming damage, and it is still insufficient to protect the defender.

My wishlist includes: remove the needless repetitiveness of the buffs; distribute -recharge and slows in various enemy-targeting powers to assist thematically in self protection; improve Siphon Power (e.g. with -recharge and slows!); add some -recovery to Transference and more -regen to Transfusion; add some -recovery and -recharge debuff protection to the buffs. Of course, fixing the issue with defeated foes would be very welcome, especially in these fairly laggy new trials.

EDIT: My mistake, Siphon Speed does indeed debuff recharge ... but only by 20% (on a single target, and barely stackable given the recharge time.) Certainly never noticed it making a significant difference in game play.

Mmm, just occured to me. What if Repel were replaced with a PBAoE toggle that did -damage and slow, but had an Afraid component. Like Hot Feet, but with debuffs instead of damage. Would have similar effects in terms of foe movement, while being more thematic, avoiding problematic issues of knockback, and also providing a bit of safety.

Is it just me or do people who play overpowered stuff in general clamor for being even more OP, or nerfing everyone else, since I20?

First it was softcapped defense toons complaining about defense supposedly being shafted in incarnate content, the other day a bots/traps MM complaining that he couldn't solo a particular AV, then an illusion controller whining that PA wasn't the I win button it always is everywhere else against escapees, then a kinetic complaining judgement powers make it hard for him to get FS off, now another kin asking for a buff...

Sure seems like tons of people who flock to easy mode FOTYs are now unhappy because they aren't that special snowflake anymore.

Some will see this is as a pointless and cheap flamebait, I'm sure, and maybe they are right to an extent ; but I shake my head in disbelief more and more as these topics keep popping up one after another. No rant would be complete with a random ill-suited analogy - this kind of stuff just seems to me like some random guy coming in Haïti and complaining that his 401k won't allow him to buy a third house. Do yourself a favor - play a peacebringer, have some perspective.

Personally, I like Repel on a few of my Kinetics characters. I was recently on an ITF with my Plant/Kin. Since Plant control relies heavily on Seeds of Confusion and Creepers, both on longish timers, once both powers have been used and are recharging, my Plant/Kin is kind of a sitting duck. Repel is the only significant defensive power in the Kinetics set, and it let me handle ambushes quite well . . .

Repel was especially great for that moment in the last phase of taking down the computer, when the large group of Robots come to life . . . Repel sent the ones around me flying and let me survive long enough for the computer to go down.

Situationally, Repel can be quite good.

Hard to complain about one of the best sets in the game. I have 2 fire/kins. an arrow/kin def. a dark/kin def. All power sets have skipable powers so that's not a broken set issue. And IR + Ninja run = no travel powers needed. Sometimes i'll even add SS to that but it's fast w/o it. I like hearing other people opinions on things but any set that has a power like fulcrum shift should have more crappy powers like repel... but then that's my opinion.

There is nothing wrong with a Power Set where there are some powers you would prefer not to take. In fact, in my opinion, it's a good thing. I don't want to have to take every power that a primary or secondary offer. I like having choices and variety. It allows me to pick Pool powers that I find useful. I'm not a fan of Repel and Inertial Reduction. I would rather take Hasten and Recall Friend. If other people do like those powers? Great! It adds variety and makes each character unique.

tl;dr

Kinetics is fine.

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Speed Boost and Siphon Speed are the same thing? That's good to know.

I love a powerset with a few powers I hate. Makes it easier to get the whole leadership pool.

let's take a set that can neuter AVs damage (not just debuff), cap the teams damage (key word is CAP), has the best team heal, can buff team +rech and +recov, and can refill team end in one click, and buff it.

seriously, siphon power (not power siphon, that's from kinetic melee) is great pre-38 and it would be overpowered if FS was available at lvl 4/1.

oh, and complaining that there is danger involved in using FS, transfusion and transference? big deal. what do they do? see the first sentence. then think - what other sets can do that? ZERO. none. nada. sure, other can do some of the same things, but no where near the magnitude. very few can even buff damage directly and no other can cap. lots of sets give +recovery but few have near the same numbers (cold via heat loss and empathy through adrenaline boost and RA - and the former is single target only). but few can recover endurance directly (static field from elec control - what others are there?) and what other sets can essentially fill the entire teams end all at once in one click (plus a tohit check)?

i love kinetics, but if anything its overpowered, not in need of a buff.

This thread is a great example of why I gave up posting to the forums after 3 am.

Even better!