Quote:
Just to make sure I wasn't seeing things, I just checked the toon I used on that run (my Fire Blaster who did not have any of the BAF badges other than the one for completion of the Trial), and sure enough, Lambda Looter was what we earned.|
Originally Posted by Ironblade
No, as far as I'm aware that's news.
Bad and unwelcome news, but still news.  |
So the "fix" is most definitely in...
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StainedGlassScarlet - L50 Spines/Inv Scrapper | Badges: 1,396
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Quote:
Perhaps...however, "not WAI" does not equal "exploit" (at least it doesn't to ME). Fixes to "not WAI" is exactly what you produce patch notes FOR.|
Originally Posted by Lothic
I'm pretty sure the Devs considered the "buggy" badge situation that allowed people to get MoLambda in one run to be at the very least not WAI.
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Meh, whatever, they obviously did what they did, and it is what it is.
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Quote:
As this game has evolved it's been interesting to see the broad spectrum of interpretation between what the Devs consider acceptable activity versus what they don't. What they define as an "exploit" or an "innocent bug" seems to vary depending on the circumstances. Finally what they consider "patch note worthy" also seems to be a random whim affair.|
Originally Posted by Eric Nelson
Perhaps...however, "not WAI" does not equal "exploit" (at least it doesn't to ME). Fixes to "not WAI" is exactly what you produce patch notes FOR.
Meh, whatever, they obviously did what they did, and it is what it is. |
Bottomline they were probably more embarrassed by this particular set of badge bugs than usual thus the "silent treatment" patch note wise. When we first started reporting these bugs the rednames took the dismissive tact that "the badges aren't broken, you players just don't know how to earn them properly". Once it became obvious to them that they were in fact broken it was probably hard for them to admit it.
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Quote:
That's interesting, because I don't think it's possible to earn more rewards doing LAM compared to BAF if you complete both trials successfully. I'm sure someone's done the breakdown, but it looks something like this, right?:|
Originally Posted by Lothic
He also addressed why the MoBAF was acceptable in one run if MoLambda wasn't by saying that they were going to continue to tweak these two trials to make their awards more "appropriate" to the level of effort involved. The implication was that they wanted the BAF to be effectively easier than Lambda but that Lambda would be worth more rewards per run to make up for that.
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LAM: astral for 1 synchronized, 2 all acids, 3 all grenades, 4 defeating M
BAF: astral for 1 not overriding, 2 defeating Siege, 3 NS, 4 defeating both, 5 defeating separated, 6 defeating when no reinforcements are present, 7 completing prisoner phase, 8 no prisoners escaping
And doing Mo runs makes LAM reward even less. I don't think threads drop faster during Lambda or the reward table is weighted any higher (in fact, some people believe they receive worse rewards on LAM tables)
Just for my own personal satisfaction, I lead a team 2 more times to complete the Lambda trial for the other badge requirements for the Well-Stocked and Antacid badge. Which were both successful and even though I didn't get those badges due to me already having them.
I have to say, I really don't understand the reasoning for having to fight him 3 separate times to earn the Master badge. I feel if you defeated the trial once by collecting all 20 temp powers without having used any of them, I think it should award all 3 badges.
Because in a sense, you've completed the trial using 0 temp powers once, why do it 3 times? Just doesn't make any sense to me, but oh well, good luck to anyone else that goes for them, it is very doable indeed.
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I've now been in 3 failed attempts at getting any of these badges, and I'm curious as to what the silver bullet is that we haven't chambered. In these attempts, we have brought large amounts of debuff, +damage and most of the league was +2 or +3 level shifted. I don't know how many had the Seer Lore pet. Is that the answer? Is that what we are missing?
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Beef, I think the reasoning is that getting just 10 acids or just 10 temps can cut your sabotage time down significantly.
You are awarded extra time during the sabotage phase for "dual assault", which I understand to mean that you have at least 1 container and 1 crate destroyed. If you only do containers or only crates (or do all containers first, then crates), you will not be awarded extra time. And the base amount of time is around 180 seconds to get 10 objects.
For some reason, the Devs thought it was harder to get 10 objects in 3 mins (twice!) than it was to defeat a massive bag of HP with 100% S/L resistance and unstoppable. It sounds like the psi trick is out of the bag, which might make Marauder trivial, but still, it's a weird design.
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Originally Posted by Beef_Cake
I have to say, I really don't understand the reasoning for having to fight him 3 separate times to earn the Master badge. I feel if you defeated the trial once by collecting all 20 temp powers without having used any of them, I think it should award all 3 badges.
Because in a sense, you've completed the trial using 0 temp powers once, why do it 3 times? Just doesn't make any sense to me, but oh well, good luck to anyone else that goes for them, it is very doable indeed. |
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Originally Posted by makerian
You are awarded extra time during the sabotage phase for "dual assault", which I understand to mean that you have at least 1 container and 1 crate destroyed. If you only do containers or only crates (or do all containers first, then crates), you will not be awarded extra time. And the base amount of time is around 180 seconds to get 10 objects.
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But I think the real "challenge" of doing the trial multiple times is that you have to have enough control over the herd of cats (a.k.a. the League) to make sure that people not only get the right kind of temps at the right time but that they don't use them during prolonged fighting. It may be easy enough to slam through that trial once, but 3 times basically "proves" that you getting the Master badge wasn't by pure accident.
I've seen people "tag along" during successful all-in-one MoBAFs and comment after the trial that they weren't even trying for the MoBAF badge. People shouldn't really be getting Master badges as unplanned accidents.
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Quote:
I was simply relating what Posi was trying to explain during the Ustream chat.|
Originally Posted by makerian
That's interesting, because I don't think it's possible to earn more rewards doing LAM compared to BAF if you complete both trials successfully. I'm sure someone's done the breakdown, but it looks something like this, right?:
LAM: astral for 1 synchronized, 2 all acids, 3 all grenades, 4 defeating M BAF: astral for 1 not overriding, 2 defeating Siege, 3 NS, 4 defeating both, 5 defeating separated, 6 defeating when no reinforcements are present, 7 completing prisoner phase, 8 no prisoners escaping And doing Mo runs makes LAM reward even less. I don't think threads drop faster during Lambda or the reward table is weighted any higher (in fact, some people believe they receive worse rewards on LAM tables) |
If what he said doesn't seem possible that's his problem not mine.
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Quote:
Here are some key points that will help you:|
Originally Posted by flipside
I've now been in 3 failed attempts at getting any of these badges, and I'm curious as to what the silver bullet is that we haven't chambered. In these attempts, we have brought large amounts of debuff, +damage and most of the league was +2 or +3 level shifted. I don't know how many had the Seer Lore pet. Is that the answer? Is that what we are missing?
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- Bring as many Seer Lore Pets a you can, more the better.
- Wait until all mobs are gathered on Marauder before engaging him.Once all mobs are defeated cast your Lore Pets, doing this will give you enough time to cast them a second time before the timer runs out.
- When you engage him, use all your judgement powers at once, this will eliminate all mobs making it easier to concentrate on him much faster.
- Be fast getting to Marauder when he jumps to each location.
- Spam heals as much as possible that way you don't have to back up when Marauder uses his Nova Fist, this will save you a few minutes as well. You lose time when you back up, this will allow you to stay in close and do what you have to do.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by makerian
Beef, I think the reasoning is that getting just 10 acids or just 10 temps can cut your sabotage time down significantly.
You are awarded extra time during the sabotage phase for "dual assault", which I understand to mean that you have at least 1 container and 1 crate destroyed. If you only do containers or only crates (or do all containers first, then crates), you will not be awarded extra time. And the base amount of time is around 180 seconds to get 10 objects. For some reason, the Devs thought it was harder to get 10 objects in 3 mins (twice!) than it was to defeat a massive bag of HP with 100% S/L resistance and unstoppable. It sounds like the psi trick is out of the bag, which might make Marauder trivial, but still, it's a weird design. |
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Quote:
Honestly, it's much easier when most of the people on those teams are Incarnate shifted to +2 or +3 and there's at least one person leading the League around who knows exactly where all the specific temps are. Three minutes is "more than enough" time for some Leagues but probably not -all- Leagues. This is why that activity is worth a badge.|
Originally Posted by Beef_Cake
Honestly, it's much easier having both teams going in a single area and collecting the temps. 3 Minutes is more than enough time for 16 people to rush the area.
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But don't get me wrong Beefy, I happen to think the badges for this trial don't really make much sense either. Having one badge be basically the exact sum of what you do to get two other badges is a bit lame. I imagine if they had figured out some badge requirements for this trial that were more uniquely different then the idea of having to run it multiple times to get the Master might make more sense to most people.
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I still think the way it's laid out is pretty meh.
As I've mentioned in another thread I'd like to see the following changes myself.
Antacid: all the Cylinders in the sabotage portion, none of the Crates. You CAN use any grenades you can find in the courtyard. Don't destroy any Cylinders.
Well Stocked: all the Creates in the sabotage portion, none of the Cylinders. You CAN use any acids you can find in the courtyard. Don't destroy any Crates.
Lambda Looter: all the Cylinders and Crates in the Sabotage portion. None of the Courtyard deliveries can be used/destroyed. (I still think this should award all three badges, but I doubt the devs would go for that)
At least allowing people to grab deliveries in the courtyard would change the requirements up enough to make it less repetitive than to do it the way it's set now.
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Quote:
Quote:
Actually it is a lot easier to get 10 instead of all 20.|
Originally Posted by Lothic
The irony here is that getting only 10 of one type or the other at a time is probably harder than getting all 20 at once.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Lothic
But I think the real "challenge" of doing the trial multiple times is that you have to have enough control over the herd of cats (a.k.a. the League) to make sure that people not only get the right kind of temps at the right time but that they don't use them during prolonged fighting. It may be easy enough to slam through that trial once, but 3 times basically "proves" that you getting the Master badge wasn't by pure accident.
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I think they are counting on people wanting the rare component from the Master badge to entice people with doing it. However, given the increased difficulty that component should be increased to a very rare component.
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Quote:
There's no irony there, that's literally what they want. They intended for Antacid and Well-Stocked to be the hard ones, not Lambda Looter.
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Originally Posted by Lothic
The irony here is that getting only 10 of one type or the other at a time is probably harder than getting all 20 at once.
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Issue 16 made me feel like this.
Warning: This poster likes to play Devil's Advocate.
Quote:
The base time is 5 minutes. It even tells you that when you start. You can increase it by up to 9 minutes, since the 10th dual assault ends the phase. You end up getting half of the objects in a little over a third of the time, but with double the firepower concentrated on that half of the objects. They might be marginally more difficult.
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Originally Posted by makerian
Beef, I think the reasoning is that getting just 10 acids or just 10 temps can cut your sabotage time down significantly.
You are awarded extra time during the sabotage phase for "dual assault", which I understand to mean that you have at least 1 container and 1 crate destroyed. If you only do containers or only crates (or do all containers first, then crates), you will not be awarded extra time. And the base amount of time is around 180 seconds to get 10 objects. For some reason, the Devs thought it was harder to get 10 objects in 3 mins (twice!) than it was to defeat a massive bag of HP with 100% S/L resistance and unstoppable. It sounds like the psi trick is out of the bag, which might make Marauder trivial, but still, it's a weird design. |
"I wish my life was a non-stop Hollywood movie show,
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Quote:
I would disagree on that, due to the time bonuses handed out for getting one of each item. I'm frequently on leagues that end up with more than 5 minutes remaining at the end of that phase.
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Originally Posted by Snow Globe
Actually it is a lot easier to get 10 instead of all 20.
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Quote:
Our strategy on guardian was to open with non-seer pets and activate the seers when Marauder is at 25%, to help with the unstoppable phase.
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Originally Posted by Beef_Cake
Here are some key points that will help you:
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Shoot on sight, please.
Personally, I think that they should have made it so that you can get either acids or paci's, and use neither, and that would award 1 badge. The two different ones for doing [almost] the exact same thing is pretty ridiculous.
Edit: I'm also a bit disgruntled that I didn't get the badges before they "fixed" them.
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Quote:
Sorry to say this but each time I ran the requirements for these badges, when the league entered only one side or the other, we had well over a minute left on the timer when we collected all 10 temps, so yeah it's not hard at all when you have 2 teams rushing the objectives.|
Originally Posted by Ironblade
I would disagree on that, due to the time bonuses handed out for getting one of each item. I'm frequently on leagues that end up with more than 5 minutes remaining at the end of that phase.
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I've done it 4 times now and each time was very easy and the teams were normal team makeup no min macing on these runs and all went perfectly fine. All you need is 2 people that know where the objectives are. And by now many should know where they are.
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Quote:
I use to do that too, and that worked, but you can get your pets out twice in the time you're taking on the AV. Just cast them out as soon as you exit the Sabatoge phase.
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Originally Posted by Ullikummis
Our strategy on guardian was to open with non-seer pets and activate the seers when Marauder is at 25%, to help with the unstoppable phase.
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Quote:
I'm to the point where, even if I die halfway through and spend some time coming back, I can predict which ones haven't been hit by the time I return.|
Originally Posted by Beef_Cake
Sorry to say this but each time I ran the requirements for these badges, when the league entered only one side or the other, we had well over a minute left on the timer when we collected all 10 temps, so yeah it's not hard at all when you have 2 teams rushing the objectives.
I've done it 4 times now and each time was very easy and the teams were normal team makeup no min macing on these runs and all went perfectly fine. All you need is 2 people that know where the objectives are. And by now many should know where they are. |
"I wish my life was a non-stop Hollywood movie show,
A fantasy world of celluloid villains and heroes."
Quote:
While I might agree that the Lambda badge requirements are a bit shortsighted trying to equate this situation to RV Isolator is taking this about 19 steps too far. I realize you were trying to use that as a related example of bad badge requirements, but don't toss in a verbal nuclear bomb where a standard hand grenade will suffice. |
Originally Posted by Snow Globe
Actually I think all that proves is whoever designed the Lambda badge requirements didn't care that they were essentially making 3 badges with one requirement. Additionally I think the same "stick it to them" attitude that got us the RV Isolator solution is in play here.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Beef_Cake
Here are some key points that will help you:
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ullikummis
Our strategy on guardian was to open with non-seer pets and activate the seers when Marauder is at 25%, to help with the unstoppable phase.
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Question here for everyone: which branch of Seer is the best for this? I'm currently swimming in extra Rare and Uncommon Incarnate salvages and could build up to a Rare Seer, but not sure which one to choose. I know the obvious answer is "the one which does the most psi damage", but which one is that?
Thanks in advance.
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Quote:
I still find it strange that obviously elite players such as yourselves still find it hard to understand that not everyone can play this game as well as you can.|
Originally Posted by Ms. Mesmer
Quote:
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I'm not saying I've personally had any more difficulty with this portion of this trial than you have. But at least I'm willing to accept the likelihood that the people you and I tend to play with are far more experienced with this game than the "average" player.
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He also addressed why the MoBAF was acceptable in one run if MoLambda wasn't by saying that they were going to continue to tweak these two trials to make their awards more "appropriate" to the level of effort involved. The implication was that they wanted the BAF to be effectively easier than Lambda but that Lambda would be worth more rewards per run to make up for that.
Loth 50 Fire/Rad Controller [1392 Badges] [300 non-AE Souvenirs]
Ryver 50 Ele� Blaster [1392 Badges]
Silandra 50 Peacebringer [1138 Badges] [No Redside Badges]
--{=====> Virtue ♀