Incarnate rewards based on participation?
By
Abraxxus,
Posted on: 2011-04-11 11:46 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
11 Trails runs over the weekend on my Dark/Sonic Def.
9 Uncommon
2 Common
One fo these runs was a succesful MoBAF as well. This was since the last patch.
Prior to the patch, I was getting Rare and Very Rare tables every 2 or 3 runs.
Hell if I know how to get above Uncommon on my sonic or FF fenders. I bubble everyone, blast like nobody's business, heal with the FFer who has Aid Other, and use my toggle powers to great effect. Very discouraging when my blue bar is often empty from my playstyle and buffing everyone on the league, but the reward system thinks I deserve an uncommon at best.
Still better than my MMs, though.
I ran 2 trials with my Sonic/Cold Corr. Got a very rare and uncommon.
[U][URL="http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=251594"][/URL][/U]
Well after getting the other chars in my sig 4 slotted with mostly t3s, I started on my MM. I think I've gotten one uncommon, all the rest commons after unlocking the 2 BAF slots and about 50% of Interface. That's with summoning inside, directing my henches to attack things as opposed to letting them react in BG, tossing out debuffs, hitting things with Void, etc etc..
Furio--Lvl 50+3 Fire/Fire/Fire Blaster, Virtue
Megadeth--Lvl 50+3 Necro/DM/Soul MM, Virtue
Veriandros--Lvl 50+3 Crab Soldier, Virtue
"So come and get me! I'll be waiting for ye, with a whiff of the old brimstone. I'm a grim bloody fable, with an unhappy bloody end!" Demoman, TF2
If we're still collecting data, here's what I have so far.
Some of the totals don't match because I didn't record which specific trial I got a drop on:
bots/dark/mu
MM....G..U..R..VR
lam...4..1..0..0
baf...5..1..0..0
total.9..2..0..0
crab/scorp
CRAB..C..U..R..VR
lam...1..3..1..1
baf...6..5..0..0
total.1..9..6..1
fire/plant/mako dom
DOM...C..U..R..VR
lam...0..1..1..0
baf...0..4..2..0
total.0..9..3..1
Yes, I have yet to receive a single common on my dom. My kat/da scrapper (ran him through before I started tracking) has only received one common, and it was not until he had all his t3s completed.
The crab and dom are pretty much where you'd expect heavy aoe users to be. MM problem is already documented, so that's just kind of there.
I will say that, of the two, the Lambda seems harder to "game", and closer to random. There is definitely still some obnoxious "participation" code in there as I frequently see people who should not be getting threads (like the tank) get threads and other things that run counter to "participation" or "contribution" or whatever, BUT heavy aoe still seems to be key.
I've heard rumors of tankerminding being more effective for rewards than standard masterminding, so there may be something in there as well about...aggro? Damage taken *without getting killed*? (Dying definitely seems to lower your chances of quality).
I'll start my rad/cold/scorp or fire/storm/mu controller tonight. I really wanted to work on my MM, but that seems a really unwise use of time until some kind of fix goes in.
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I noticed that I got more Rares and very Rares before I had Lore Equipped. As a test I asked the people on the 2 BAF and 1 Lambda runs to not use lore pets and quite a few people on both of the baf runs recieved rares. that to me confirms the theory that something buggy with the lore pets is not counting for participation credit.
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Absolutely true. I've stopped summoning my Lore and my toons that were stuck on uncommons have shot back up to rares.
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Originally Posted by Desi_Nova
I noticed that I got more Rares and very Rares before I had Lore Equipped. As a test I asked the people on the 2 BAF and 1 Lambda runs to not use lore pets and quite a few people on both of the baf runs recieved rares. that to me confirms the theory that something buggy with the lore pets is not counting for participation credit.
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I'm not sure any pets count. I'm thinking it's exactly what I said upthread. Hit a lot of stuff, get good rewards.
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Originally Posted by Desi_Nova
I noticed that I got more Rares and very Rares before I had Lore Equipped. As a test I asked the people on the 2 BAF and 1 Lambda runs to not use lore pets and quite a few people on both of the baf runs recieved rares. that to me confirms the theory that something buggy with the lore pets is not counting for participation credit.
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The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
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Can't say my experience mimics this. |
Originally Posted by EvilGeko
I'm not sure any pets count. I'm thinking it's exactly what I said upthread. Hit a lot of stuff, get good rewards.
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I went from blasting more to debuffing/healing more on my Dark/Sonic defender and ended up with a VR and R. Then I ran it twice more and (doing the same thing) got two uncommons.
I then switched to my Fire/SD/Pyre scrapper and ran the trials for awhile. Keep in mind this scrapper farms +2/x8 all day so hitting mobs is his specialty. I ran enough trials to get Judgment at 84% and Interface to 23%. Not. One. Rare. Or. Very. Rare. Drop.
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It's not a sure thing. I suspect that even at the best participation range, you still have a chance at uncommon. But hitting teammates (with buffs) in my experience counts as hitting stuff. My Cold/Ice has gotten a couple of very rares and quite a few rares and that isn't just luck. |
Originally Posted by Clouded
Can't say my experience mimics this.
I went from blasting more to debuffing/healing more on my Dark/Sonic defender and ended up with a VR and R. Then I ran it twice more and (doing the same thing) got two uncommons. I then switched to my Fire/SD/Pyre scrapper and ran the trials for awhile. Keep in mind this scrapper farms +2/x8 all day so hitting mobs is his specialty. I ran enough trials to get Judgment at 84% and Interface to 23%. Not. One. Rare. Or. Very. Rare. Drop. |
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
What do you guys think about the pseudopets? Blizzard, burn, ice storm, etc.
I've heard reports of blizzard & ice storm users getting better drops when they stopped using them.
Couple with the MM issues and the potential lore pet & traps pet issues...this wouldn't surprise me.
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Got a very rare on my 3rd run last night (after 2 uncommons) on my MM. I managed to only die once on the V.rare run, and also was in on the sabotage pretty heavily. I was resummoning my henches as they died, popped my lore pets for the Marauder fight and was pretty much spamming my secondary/patron/void powers as they recharged.....so, pretty much what I always do.
The only difference in the 3rd run from the others is that we *didn't* farm the sabotage maps when we got to 9/10 destroyed for iXP.
oh, this was all Lambda runs, in case that wasn't clear
Furio--Lvl 50+3 Fire/Fire/Fire Blaster, Virtue
Megadeth--Lvl 50+3 Necro/DM/Soul MM, Virtue
Veriandros--Lvl 50+3 Crab Soldier, Virtue
"So come and get me! I'll be waiting for ye, with a whiff of the old brimstone. I'm a grim bloody fable, with an unhappy bloody end!" Demoman, TF2
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Lambda seems to have much more variance than BAF, even when you do exactly the same thing. I'm much more inclined to believe that trial actually has semi-random drops than BAF, based on my personal experiences.|
Originally Posted by Furio
Got a very rare on my 3rd run last night (after 2 uncommons) on my MM. I managed to only die once on the V.rare run, and also was in on the sabotage pretty heavily. I was resummoning my henches as they died, popped my lore pets for the Marauder fight and was pretty much spamming my secondary/patron/void powers as they recharged.....so, pretty much what I always do.
The only difference in the 3rd run from the others is that we *didn't* farm the sabotage maps when we got to 9/10 destroyed for iXP. oh, this was all Lambda runs, in case that wasn't clear |
I got R & C on my stone tank the last 2 lambdas, both times on 8-9 man teams where I was the only tank, took the crate side & cleared it, handled the pacs, etc - I did everything pretty much exactly the same. Team composition was a little different - in the second run we had 2 teams of 4/5 instead of one team of 8, and had 3 debuffers instead of 1 kin.
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Speaking only from personal experience, in normal play, my namesake character, an Illusion/Emp controller, uses Ice Storm from his Epic pool fairly frequently. I've experimented with it a bit while on various runs, and I actually seem to do better on runs where it gets used. Raids where I'm able to keep Ice Storm and even my Phantom Army up as much as possible seem to result in better rewards, despite the fact that it's a lot of pets and pseudo-pets doing damage on my behalf (3 VRs, while my more direct-assault oriented Fortunata has received not-a-one). Perhaps it has to do with the frequency at which I summon them?
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Originally Posted by Lobster
What do you guys think about the pseudopets? Blizzard, burn, ice storm, etc.
I've heard reports of blizzard & ice storm users getting better drops when they stopped using them. |
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I'll echo this. Using sleet and ice storm regularly seems to help, not hurt my drops.
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Originally Posted by Lazarillo
Speaking only from personal experience, in normal play, my namesake character, an Illusion/Emp controller, uses Ice Storm from his Epic pool fairly frequently. I've experimented with it a bit while on various runs, and I actually seem to do better on runs where it gets used. Raids where I'm able to keep Ice Storm and even my Phantom Army up as much as possible seem to result in better rewards, despite the fact that it's a lot of pets and pseudo-pets doing damage on my behalf (3 VRs, while my more direct-assault oriented Fortunata has received not-a-one). Perhaps it has to do with the frequency at which I summon them?
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The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
I was on a 24-member BAF team attempting Gotta Keep 'Em Separated badge with my Ill/Rad troller. I was assigned to the adds team. From my experience, handling the adds is the easiest role compared to the teams that have to coordinate their damage on the two AVs in separate locations. Unless you have a simpleton who spreads out the adds without making much dent in their HPs, you can simply AOE them to death, amply aided by Judgement powers. And there were no simpletons, thankfully.
And we succeeded. What did I get for my role as adds eliminator? A Very Rare loot table. The team was jubilant at getting the badge, of course, and I didn't have the heart to dampen their spirits by announcing my drop to hear what they got. No one reported getting any Rares or Very Rares, so it's safe to assume their drops were unremarkable, unless they shared my sentiment of not spoiling the moment by broadcasting their good drops.
If it is true that doing damage to many mobs, like the adds, earned me my Very Rare, while the folks who had the harder task of managing their damage, slowing down if necessary, got poor drops, then this "participation" system needs a serious revamp. The AV teams played the pivotal role in winning the badge, but got poorer loot tables because they didn't do as much damage or tag enough mobs as the adds team is just bizarre.
Well, the new information that's leaked out around the edges of the moderation trying to cover it all up is very disappointing. Also really explains why Masterminds are behind the curve too (even if pet participation wasn't an issue).
I hope they can do something to fix the participation system sharpish.
My Mind/Bubbler has been pulling Rares or Very Rares with alarming regularity.
A normal BAF run is as follows:
*Shields on all teammates
*Fireball + Void on a large spawn
*Terrify/Mass Confuse on stragglers
*Single target status effects on other mobs
*Force Bubble up during prisoner phase, cornering outgoing mobs
Basically repeat as needed, lots of activity and a Rare.
I *did* experiment with the idea of Power Activation being a key by rapid-toggling Personal Force Field for a good 5-10 minutes but that got me an Uncommon menu. Seems you really do need to interact with objectives out there.
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That sounds like good play.
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Originally Posted by Neuronia
My Mind/Bubbler has been pulling Rares or Very Rares with alarming regularity.
A normal BAF run is as follows: *Shields on all teammates *Fireball + Void on a large spawn *Terrify/Mass Confuse on stragglers *Single target status effects on other mobs *Force Bubble up during prisoner phase, cornering outgoing mobs |
Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
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http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=258774
NEW INFO!
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
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I kinda wonder if they are lying. I mean, I don't know half of these new devs... not like we "knew" Castle or Babs who would actually interact and post with us.|
Originally Posted by EvilGeko
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PR for the game is more important than being completely honest, to a business, I would think.
I hope that they found what was causing the drop variations that screwed the mms and seemed to be gameable by some and are just fixing it on the DL and just trying not to alert the masses that it exists.
Because, at this point, I'm not sure I could be convinced that it doesn't. I've come across too many leaguemates who have gotten half a dozen Rares or even VRs compared to my 3 total VRs (across 5 alts). I do have alts that have gotten gluts of rares... but certainly not my Mastermind.
Maybe it was just the uncommon table weight that threw everything off - hell, that's certainly a good cover, right? Fix that uncommon weight and hey, suddenly certain players aren't able to stack VRs anymore. I'm sure that's all that was/is wrong.
<.<
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It's certainly possible, but I find it unlikely. If they are lying then someone will eventually figure it out in a way that proves it which will have a HUGE backlash in terms of PR. So while it is a possibility I find it a very shortsighted one on their part.|
Originally Posted by Lobster
I kinda wonder if they are lying. I mean, I don't know half of these new devs... not like we "knew" Castle or Babs who would actually interact and post with us.
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Also what's the benefit? Saying "yes, it does work that way, we screwed up and will change it in the next patch" is probably a better PR move than lying and leaving a broken system in place.
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I was being a bit crass and angry with the usage of "lying" (although it would technically fall under this term, IMHO)... "damage control" or "image management" might be better terms. Saying something that appears to convey a mollifying message but, if it comes out later that X bug was in place, can then be re-interpreted to say something a little different. Politician-speak.|
Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood
It's certainly possible, but I find it unlikely. If they are lying then someone will eventually figure it out in a way that proves it which will have a HUGE backlash in terms of PR. So while it is a possibility I find it a very shortsighted one on their part.
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The failure to follow up on the comment about MM drop rates just struck a chord with me I guess.
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| Also what's the benefit? Saying "yes, it does work that way, we screwed up and will change it in the next patch" is probably a better PR move than lying and leaving a broken system in place. |
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Very nice to see. As long as it does work that way there should be no issues. Lovin the changes.... assuming they actually work.
I've been experimenting with different things in the BAF to see what may affect what reward table I get with my nrg/nrg blaster. A normal run of me blasting/nuking/punching everything I target gets me an Uncommon, with a few commons here and there. Before experimenting I've only gotten the rare reward twice.
Since experimenting, the only thing I have noticed is in the BAF if I do nothing but attack the Warworks during the first phase and attack the escapees (in other words, just stand around during the fights with the AVs), I consistently get a rare reward table.
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