Why are people calling these Raids
By
Aggelakis,
Posted on: 2011-04-07 01:52 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
I read the whole post and you seem to have forgot to add a point or conclusion to it.
Winner of Players' Choice Best Villainous Arc 2010: Fear and Loathing on Striga; ID #350522
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I think you mean "Omnipotent".|
Originally Posted by Battler
Now you to can become omnipresent in failure
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Simple really, Trials can be failed, TF's never fail unless you abandon them.
The devs want the incarnate content to be failable hence it's a trial.
You get rewards comparable to your level of success. iXP is just like XP, you learn something even when you fail. This all looks about right to me.
I lothe TFs but I don't have a problem with what we have so far (other than the bugs and wanting a bit more variety)
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Originally Posted by FredrikSvanberg
I read the whole post and you seem to have forgot to add a point or conclusion to it.
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A little bit like issue 20 then in the end, no point to it that is relevant to all that has gone before, also no real conclusion, the endless grind
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If you don't like it don't do it. It's not like the trials are the only content is Issue 20. The game that existed on Monday is still there. If you enjoyed that, then I don't understand what's changed to create this much ire.
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Originally Posted by Battler
A little bit like issue 20 then in the end, no point to it that is relevant to all that has gone before, also no real conclusion, the endless grind
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The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
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Well it's a moot point now anyway, I am not going to stand around paying money into a game that is trying to reinvent itself for the sake of a minority.|
Originally Posted by EvilGeko
If you don't like it don't do it. It's not like the trials are the only content is Issue 20. The game that existed on Monday is still there. If you enjoyed that, then I don't understand what's changed to create this much ire.
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This game used to always be about inclusiveity, ever since I started playing in 2005. I has 2 EU accounts and a NA account at one point. But I guess the 1000's of hours put in was fun till this started. Oh well, enjoy your grind and have fun in these huge faceplantfests.
Yes, the old game is still there,
It will get older and older as the blindly devote their time to new and exciting grindfests that shut out anyone that hasn't completed the previous Incarnate Slots till you all forgot that we played this game for,
fun.
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The game isn't what the OP is used to playing.|
Originally Posted by FredrikSvanberg
I read the whole post and you seem to have forgot to add a point or conclusion to it.
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You can send me the check later.
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You should know this by now Geko. |
Originally Posted by EvilGeko
If you don't like it don't do it. It's not like the trials are the only content is Issue 20. The game that existed on Monday is still there. If you enjoyed that, then I don't understand what's changed to create this much ire.
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Different = bad for a lot of people.
Whether the old stuff is still there or not is completely irrelevant to those who have decided that the Incarnate Trials are ruining the game.
It's like every other thing that has prompted DOOOOOM posts in the past, the new thing they don't like is killing the game and nothing will convince them otherwise. Not even the fact that 100% of the gamekilling doomposts of the past have been proven wrong.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
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Cheque |
Originally Posted by Gemini_2099
The game isn't what the OP is used to playing.
You can send me the check later. |
Also, really, if they WERE made TF like, in that you got nothing for failing, there'd be the biggest rage storm ever. Especially given how bloody hard the things are, and that you effectively need the rewards to have a hope in hell of doing them with- ok, doing Lambda at all. BAF is ok, completed that a few times already, and one run was cheated by 1% of health, the other two failed because prisoners suddenly started popping out the back of a building
But yeah, shock horror for once in that I'm agreeing with Geko and Claws on the matter of the Raids; What was your point again?
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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In other games it's not uncommon for raids to take months for hardcore guild groups to complete. Groups whose members have requirements for gear, raid participation and even try out for their slots. Both BAF and Lambda were completed by PUGs on the first day. If that's not inclusive I don't know what is.
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Originally Posted by Battler
Well it's a moot point now anyway, I am not going to stand around paying money into a game that is trying to reinvent itself for the sake of a minority.
This game used to always be about inclusiveity, ever since I started playing in 2005. I has 2 EU accounts and a NA account at one point. But I guess the 1000's of hours put in was fun till this started. Oh well, enjoy your grind and have fun in these huge faceplantfests. Yes, the old game is still there, It will get older and older as the blindly devote their time to new and exciting grindfests that shut out anyone that hasn't completed the previous Incarnate Slots till you all forgot that we played this game for, fun. |
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
What has me kinda puzzled is that for a bunch of devs who apparently didn't like Farming in their game these new trials reek of MA horticultural activities in many ways.
Repeat this content over and over again to earn thingies you can use to buy shinies with.
Tis puzzling.
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Would you like a match or a flamethrower for that army of strawmen you've got there? |
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
You should know this by now Geko.
Different = bad for a lot of people. Whether the old stuff is still there or not is completely irrelevant to those who have decided that the Incarnate Trials are ruining the game. It's like every other thing that has prompted DOOOOOM posts in the past, the new thing they don't like is killing the game and nothing will convince them otherwise. Not even the fact that 100% of the gamekilling doomposts of the past have been proven wrong. |
Edit: Agreeing with Carni though, what is this if not farming/grinding? When did that stance change?
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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The devs have never been against repeating interesting and difficult content. That's not farming a TV map of family for purples.
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Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
Would you like a match or a flamethrower for that army of strawmen you've got there?
Edit: Agreeing with Carni though, what is this if not farming/grinding? When did that stance change? |
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
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Your whole argument falls flat here. Not only did this issue have those trials, it also gave a new TF and a new SF for those levels between 1 and 50. So, if you do not wish to partake of the endgame (like the other "90%" of the playerbase), then you have options to do so.|
Originally Posted by Battler
Why on earth are you doing them as two trials....an entire ENDGAME ISSUE OF TWO TRIALS..
Also, City of Heroes is taking an alarming direction change. Do you honestly think 90% of the playerbase is here for endgame and raids. Yes they all like a new TF evey issue or 2, a nice lvl 50 one pls, but all the ones inbetween 1 and 50 are great to, nice lore, nice new content...maybe a nice new shiney powerset or two to play about with and some new cossie pieces and the majority of your playerbase is fine. |
--Rad
/whereami:
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It indeed is a double standard.|
Originally Posted by Carnifax_NA
What has me kinda puzzled is that for a bunch of devs who apparently didn't like Farming in their game these new trials reek of MA horticultural activities in many ways.
Repeat this content over and over again to earn thingies you can use to buy shinies with. Tis puzzling. |
Farming, and speed runs were looked down upon, but now this design is embraced.
lol?
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It's not unheard of for devs to change their mind. Perhaps their datamining showed reasonable evidence to support a raid or grind style end game. So far, they were right. |
Originally Posted by Gemini_2099
It indeed is a double standard.
Farming, and speed runs were looked down upon, but now this design is embraced. lol? |
Now if they could just get the bugs worked out so I stopped getting booted from raids...
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Freedoms taking over baby! Their just giving the majority what they want even if the vocal minority on the forums like to think other wise.
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Originally Posted by Gemini_2099
It indeed is a double standard.
Farming, and speed runs were looked down upon, but now this design is embraced. lol? |
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This. There's some kinks to work out, but I'm having a ton of fun.
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Originally Posted by Clouded
Now if they could just get the bugs worked out so I stopped getting booted from raids...
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The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
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The game is still here. |
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
Would you like a match or a flamethrower for that army of strawmen you've got there?
Edit: Agreeing with Carni though, what is this if not farming/grinding? When did that stance change? |
Therefore: The people who predicted that Issue X or Feature Y would be the death of the game in the past have been completely wrong. And that simple fact is not stopping anyone from crying doom now.
So far, it has just been "I hate this new thing". But that's how all the "This will kill the game" doomcrying started before too.
I suppose there is a slight possibility that they may be proven right this time, but the chance is pretty minute.
I give it about a week before the first "This is killing the game" thread appears, maybe (probably) less than that.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
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Well I assume you haven't been fed yet, can you not work out that this issue is called Incarnates...who have 2 trials to ammuse themselves on. I know about the token TF/SF thrown in to.....|
Originally Posted by Radionuclide
Your whole argument falls flat here. Not only did this issue have those trials, it also gave a new TF and a new SF for those levels between 1 and 50. So, if you do not wish to partake of the endgame (like the other "90%" of the playerbase), then you have options to do so.
--Rad |
I have no problems with end games in any game. The way it has been implimented in this game just beggers belief.
You can fail and still get rewarded and the marvelous endgame here involves running just TWO Trials over and over and over and over....
Well if you are very happy with that then go knock yourself out, have fun with it. Go grind it 5 times a night till your eyes bleed and be happy.
I for one am not happy with this. They have made themselves a paradox of grining and loosing but still getting rewards.
It's not even learning the tactics that is the problem, people know them.
It is the way you are all...Alpha Slotted and IO'd to the hilt with billions of inf spent or SO's only....reduced by gimmicls to been wiped and given token rewards till you get slotted with these new powers....that ONLY work on these two grindfests to actually complete it properly.
You don't have to learn the tactics...go to the forums, read them, print them out, have them next to you as you fight. Won't help you though till you get all those new powers and then you stand a chance on a random LFG tool.
Serious failure and let down in my opinion. But if you're happy you go for it. I for one am not, I am oh so happy I didn't do a 6 month sub like I was actually going to, and I am out of here on the 9th, well just the forums till then.
One TF for everyone and Two limited Grindfests, nice really for the time they had I suppose but not progression raiding where they could of had the Alpha slot beginner slotted and SO's as the entrance benchmark and gone from there with proper tactics and a few differant ways you could complete it, but no, they went for the happy endgame most of you seem ok with.
Depressing really what people will be happy with these days.
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For as much as they beat us over the head how everyone from Cryptic who was working on City of Heroes jumped ship to NCsoft NorCal, it certainly feels like the people working on the game NOW are a completely different bunch from the people who used to work on the game back in 2004 and 2005. I don't know if they actually are different people, if they have different leadership, if they're doing things now they plain couldn't before or if people just change over time, but that's just what it feels like.
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Originally Posted by Carnifax_NA
What has me kinda puzzled is that for a bunch of devs who apparently didn't like Farming in their game these new trials reek of MA horticultural activities in many ways.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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From what I can tell there are 5 more slots. So the entire endgame has not arrived yet.
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Originally Posted by Battler
Why on earth are you doing them as two trials....an entire ENDGAME ISSUE OF TWO TRIALS.
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Many people have lowered their standards. An issue that doesn't release a new costume piece, but a booster is on its way? In the past that would have caused the forums to melt down, but now it is met with a resounding meh.|
Originally Posted by Battler
Depressing really what people will be happy with these days.
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I have to agree that the design that you need the incarnate powers to grind the two task forces more efficiently is a viscious circle, and the worst kind of end game design to embrace.
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Originally Posted by Clouded
It's not unheard of for devs to change their mind. Perhaps their datamining showed reasonable evidence to support a raid or grind style end game. So far, they were right.
Now if they could just get the bugs worked out so I stopped getting booted from raids... |
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Claws, I used to love this game with a passion and I have even Alpha slotted 7 of my 50s on the EU server already. I am a bit mad with myself to, got really into a new game from headstart, something I have never done before, I usually wait a month or 2. But it's not that the have an endgame now. It is just how it works.|
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
The game is still here.
Therefore: The people who predicted that Issue X or Feature Y would be the death of the game in the past have been completely wrong. And that simple fact is not stopping anyone from crying doom now. So far, it has just been "I hate this new thing". But that's how all the "This will kill the game" doomcrying started before too. I suppose there is a slight possibility that they may be proven right this time, but the chance is pretty minute. I give it about a week before the first "This is killing the game" thread appears, maybe (probably) less than that. |
I like to do everything on at least one or 2 characters. Faceplanting continuously becasue they can't be bothered to make nice inovative content and use gimmicks instead is not one of them. I don't care if I wipe as I am learning. But what are you learning when they just mass the gimmicks so you need the new powers to do the content.
This could have been oh so much better. But they just seem to be forgetting why people like me and I don't know how many more actually play this game. I love all the TF's so far, don't like most of the trials as they always seem to be more gimmicky, but I have tried everything in the game at least once apart from maybe one or 2 TFs for one reason or another.
The building and execution of this issue just flies in the face of everything they have done before. I am not afraid of change, was worried about some things, pointed out a few things they did wrong (AE anyone) in the past, but they tend to ignore a lot of feedback anyway, and some bugs you report in closed beta that make it to live to, butthats by the by.
Progression Raiding should not exclude peopl;e at the point of entry. Yes by definitition it resets onec a week usually, but the people that beat out of 10 encounters 1 to 6 the week before can still have people join them on a new run the week after as the encouintersa are geared up for the entry level to start. SO's with Alpha Slot beginner slotted. That should have been the starting point.
Not die die die...oh you still got some xp and rewards...die die die.
Oh byem have fun
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Probably by PuGs that had people that beat it in the beta.|
Originally Posted by EvilGeko
In other games it's not uncommon for raids to take months for hardcore guild groups to complete. Groups whose members have requirements for gear, raid participation and even try out for their slots. Both BAF and Lambda were completed by PUGs on the first day. If that's not inclusive I don't know what is.
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For the record I've done Lambda twice and won completely both times, but on both occasions (one in beta one in production) I was with people that had completed it before.
Not done BAF yet.
Calling these raids is fair, I know we're not allowed to compare games, but I play another MMO and the characteristics of:
Normal mobs that are harder than you see outside in the normal world
Tough bosses with a trick to them
Are common to dungeons/raids in that game and the incarnate trials in this one.
It's true. This game is NOT rocket surgery. - BillZBubba
After mod 5 closed the last thread saying all the heated discussion was Flaming, well that got me thinking.
. It was just after you changed the graphics package on a 5 year old game and annoyed a few people as ther machines that were working fine one day stopped been good enough to give the same look the next.
I know Positron doesn't like critisism really, bit like the boss in Clichequest haha...joke btw.
But these Trials for Incarnates are just masquerading as endgame content. Why do I come to this conclusion you may ask. Well to me, Trials, apart from the Villains Respec, have always been the weak cousin of the Task Force. In task Forces you progress accross a variety of Missions, facing progressively harder foes, till at the end you face your biggest challenge of all.
Why on earth are you doing them as two trials....an entire ENDGAME ISSUE OF TWO TRIALS.
They are not even progression raids. Worst of all heroes (and villains) can still progress for failing them.
Imagine it "It's ok Superdude, 9 out of the 10 bombs still went off, but you did manage to save 2 of the 100 people and apprehend one of the villains, here's your key to the City, you managed to perform like this the last 50 times in action so despite all the loss of life because we put our trust in you , You still win"
I don't mind the incidental random drops on any TF or Trial, its part of this games loot system, but before major rewards were only given out for success. Now you to can become omnipresent in failure.
Also, City of Heroes is taking an alarming direction change. Do you honestly think 90% of the playerbase is here for endgame and raids. Yes they all like a new TF evey issue or 2, a nice lvl 50 one pls, but all the ones inbetween 1 and 50 are great to, nice lore, nice new content...maybe a nice new shiney powerset or two to play about with and some new cossie pieces and the majority of your playerbase is fine.
I took a break last year due to financial constraints, moving and my irl friends fancied having a go at that game that no one likes to talk about, the fantasy one
City of Heroes will always probably be my favourite MMo to be honest.
But with these so called endgame raids, I don't know anymore.