Why are people calling these Raids
By
Aggelakis,
Posted on: 2011-04-07 01:52 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
Just curious, because I haven't personally seen it addressed, though I assume it has been:
What is the next "level" of content going to require?
Apex and Tin Mage require the Alpha slot unlock or you're effectively useless.
These new endgame trials require the Alpha slot(?) to do, and the slots they unlock make them increasingly easier to do.
At some point, will the next 'level' of content start requiring the previous 'level' rewards to even do? Much like in other games, without gear from or gear equivalent to the previous level content, you're never going to get anywhere.
Simply, right now we require Alpha slot. At what point do we start requiring Destiny and Lore? And then whatever is after those?
And once those are required, how do the devs plan to deal with the inevitable falloff of using the previous level's content?
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I thought they made a decent job at letting the rest of the team know what was going on and not just the team leader. You know, things we've been asking them to do since the Mission Architect came around and we noticed that only the leader got to read half the text in missions. Some of us noticed it sooner but that's when it became really annoying.
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Originally Posted by Eva Destruction
I haven't done Sutter so I can't speak for it, but Mortimer Kal isn't a good SF. It contains too much exposition in a format that isn't team-friendly. A well-designed TF must show, not tell, and Mortimer's SF tells too much. Although some of the fights were fun.
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Winner of Players' Choice Best Villainous Arc 2010: Fear and Loathing on Striga; ID #350522
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For that reason I expect them to not require anything except being level 50. The incarnate trials and other content might become easier with incarnate powers available but I suspect they will not be locking out anyone. Even Tin Mage and Apex aren't locking anyone out, just making things prohibitively difficult for the non-incarnates.
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Originally Posted by JKedan
What is the next "level" of content going to require?
(snip) Simply, right now we require Alpha slot. At what point do we start requiring Destiny and Lore? And then whatever is after those? And once those are required, how do the devs plan to deal with the inevitable falloff of using the previous level's content? |
Winner of Players' Choice Best Villainous Arc 2010: Fear and Loathing on Striga; ID #350522
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I actually think they did a great job with Mortimer Kal. I great mix of good story, various good/bad guys, and decent challenge level. Not too difficult or too easy.|
Originally Posted by Eva Destruction
I haven't done Sutter so I can't speak for it, but Mortimer Kal isn't a good SF. It contains too much exposition in a format that isn't team-friendly. A well-designed TF must show, not tell, and Mortimer's SF tells too much. Although some of the fights were fun.
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Admiral Sutter on the other hand, I thought it was too much like Apex and Tin Mage toned down for lower levels. Decent story bad implementation.
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I just find that amount of exposition just isn't team-friendly. As leader, I told the team "ok we have to talk to this guy" and still had people going "oh, he ran away? Chicken!" and had to explain what had actually happened. The TF could be told with less words. It's not that complicated of a story. In-mission conversations and contact dialogue trees can be useful, but I find they are being overused.|
Originally Posted by FredrikSvanberg
I thought they made a decent job at letting the rest of the team know what was going on and not just the team leader. You know, things we've been asking them to do since the Mission Architect came around and we noticed that only the leader got to read half the text in missions. Some of us noticed it sooner but that's when it became really annoying.
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There were points at which it was used well. The cutscene captions at the beginning of the final mission were very clear, for example. The conversations with the CoT guy and [name redacted due to spoilers] though, were unnecessarily long. Now I understand that a lot of players might be interested in talking to [name redacted], as he's a long established character that we don't know much about, but that kind of mostly non-combat mission is better suited to a soloable story arc than a team-required TF, IMO.
Edit: Until I made this post I hadn't realized just how many of the redside SFs are magic-focused. Virgil Tarikoss, Ice Mistral and the respec trial have a heavy magical bent, Operative Renault's SF involves quite a bit of magic, and now Mortimer Kal is a wizard who sends you off chasing magical MacGuffins.
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Nothing wrong with my comprehension. I just don't agree. But, nice Ad hominem. |
Originally Posted by Battler
Well I assume you haven't been fed yet, can you not work out that this issue is called Incarnates...who have 2 trials to ammuse themselves on. I know about the token TF/SF thrown in to.....
If you have a comprehension problem, then that's not my fault, but if you can't work out I have no problems with end games in any game. The way it has been implimented in this game just beggers belief. |
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| You can fail and still get rewarded and the marvelous endgame here involves running just TWO Trials over and over and over and over.... |
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Well if you are very happy with that then go knock yourself out, have fun with it. Go grind it 5 times a night till your eyes bleed and be happy. I for one am not happy with this. They have made themselves a paradox of grining and loosing but still getting rewards. |
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It's not even learning the tactics that is the problem, people know them. It is the way you are all...Alpha Slotted and IO'd to the hilt with billions of inf spent or SO's only....reduced by gimmicls to been wiped and given token rewards till you get slotted with these new powers....that ONLY work on these two grindfests to actually complete it properly. |
Don't assume so much. Me, personally, I have alpha slotted and have some IO sets frankenslotted but, have mostly have generic IOs.
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| You don't have to learn the tactics...go to the forums, read them, print them out, have them next to you as you fight. Won't help you though till you get all those new powers and then you stand a chance on a random LFG tool. |
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| Serious failure and let down in my opinion. But if you're happy you go for it. I for one am not, I am oh so happy I didn't do a 6 month sub like I was actually going to, and I am out of here on the 9th, well just the forums till then. |
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One TF for everyone and Two limited Grindfests, nice really for the time they had I suppose but not progression raiding where they could of had the Alpha slot beginner slotted and SO's as the entrance benchmark and gone from there with proper tactics and a few differant ways you could complete it, but no, they went for the happy endgame most of you seem ok with. Depressing really what people will be happy with these days. |
I am sorry you are disappointed. I really am. You have every right to feel that way. But, it seems most (as you pointed out) feel the differently . The Devs cannot please everyone.
--Rad
/whereami:
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while i agree with most of your post, i thought i would add a bit to this, because part of the battle on the forum seems to involve an idea that there are only 2 sides to the issue, pro and anti endgame. and really i find myself being described by your point but still enjoying the endgame(well, the alpha, due to time constraints i wont get to play till saturday.and looking at the current issues, that seems like it works out really) but i have played a lot of mmos, endgame usually is a bad thing for me, 5-8 hour raids with large groups of people, just to get random drops of gear that just allows you access to the next level of raiding to do it all over again, that sounds like dental surgery. the endgame here so far has worked for me, and given that these raids give progress even if you fail and that they themselves are sub an hour (one unverified source said they last 35 mins) that is exactly the time commitment that i can go for, and the reward scheme is accommodating, and better still, unlike games where gear goes obsolete, these are powers that will simply become another tool in your toolkit for the duration of your character's career. So basically its not the dreaded endgame that many of us have come to fear from other games, instead its integrated in a manner that sidesteps a lot of the pitfalls of those games, and that becomes something quite workable.|
Originally Posted by InfamousBrad
It is absolutely true that the players who've stuck with CoH after all these years are obviously the people who didn't give a rat's raw hindquarters whether or not there was end-game content. (Or at least, most of us don't.) But the game's population is way, way down; how many of the people quit, quit because they didn't like being told, once they hit 50, "okay, that character is done, now roll another one"? |
So i suspect a few of us are in the appended category of. "didnt want endgame, but now that its out, its not that bad"
Well, if people start quitting the game, i20 will be a mistake. If they don't, we'll get more 50+ grindfests. Pretty simple.
people quit the game over any number of reasons, rational or not. furthermore there are people coming back because they have felt that coh finally got something integral to their mmo experience, endgame. so its not that cut and dried, and again, try other game's endgame before you call this a grindfest, i have a boss on ffXI that took several hours for a optimally armed team to take down, and there was a percentage chance of him dropping something good.
Why are people saying the trials are so different from the rest of the game? Everything still plays the same except you do these with more people and they are more difficult than everything else, like it's suppose to be.
[U][URL="http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=251594"][/URL][/U]
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Right- after playing the Praetorian zone events, you can see the natural progression to trials-- multistage, often timed events that can take planning, preparation, and teamwork to succeed (or just bring in a much-higher-level character :P ). |
Originally Posted by Fiery-Enforcer
Why are people saying the trials are so different from the rest of the game? Everything still plays the same except you do these with more people and they are more difficult than everything else, like it's suppose to be.
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Personally, I'd love to see MORE of these trials masquerading as revamped zone events through all the levels. Redo the troll raver so they have GM Code, the progress meters of the syndicate trial, and an indoor "destroy the dyne lab" stage, for example.
I generally dislike the high-level gameplay (much prefer the feel of the game in the teens through mid 30's) so I'd love to see more of the "trial/zone event" type of event... just not at the level cap
Issue 20 came out TWO DAYS AGO. I think pitching a witch fit this early is HUGELY overreacting. PUGs are completing the trials. Non-PUGs are completing the trials. You get rewarded for EXPERIENCING the trial, not for completing the trial. Isn't that kind of what the points are called... "EXPERIENCE" points? Not "COMPLETION" points?
This is not the endgame. This is THE START OF the endgame. There are more trials to come. There are more slots to come. There will be more ways to get what's currently out there when new stuff comes (just like there's now another wya to get the Alpha stuff, now that I20 is here).
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Originally Posted by Dispari
I don't know why Dink thinks she's not as sexy as Jay was. In 5 posts she's already upstaged his entire career.
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Technically the start of end game was the Alpha slot.
Nitpicking. You'll notice I also mentioned the Alpha slots in my post.
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Originally Posted by Dispari
I don't know why Dink thinks she's not as sexy as Jay was. In 5 posts she's already upstaged his entire career.
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Fair enough.
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Originally Posted by Aggelakis
Nitpicking. You'll notice I also mentioned the Alpha slots in my post.
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How about you just ignore the incarnate trials and accept that two good TF/SFs were added to the game?
Eva Destruction AR/Fire/Munitions Blaster
Darkfire Avenger DM/SD/Body Scrapper
Arc ID#161629 Freaks, Geeks, and Men in Black
Arc ID#431270 Until the End of the World