Multi-group content is not the way.

Well, those numbers assume a fair amount of victories. The most random drops I've gotten in a trial was 6. If you are on trials which never succeed then you are missing out on astrals and emp merits which convert to a lot of shards. And the progression is a lot slower.

The PUG unfriendly nature of the Trials can be a problem. Some have said that as people try them more and learn them that they will get better. But, there is the first impression problem as well. If the first 10 attempts at a LFG PUG group are all disasters, the negative impressions can push players from continuing with the content.

Yes, you're right.

They MUST give every possible preferred playstyle something new to do with every single conceivable issue or they fail as a dev team.

This issue was focused around large group content. Find me an issue that catered to every possible subset of players all at once. I can't think of a single one that didn't leave someone out in the cold.

Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately.

I disagree! This has been a blast so far, probably the most fun I've had in a while on CoH/V. Doing these with my friends and SG mates has been incredibly fun and rewarding! Have you seen the new powers? Holy crap they're so freakin' awesome!

I swear I'll never understand this kind of /ragequit. City of Heroes has had large scaled multi-group encounters for years. It's still a tiny fraction of the overall content in the game. The devs devote 1/2 of 1 issue to adding a couple of these types of encounters and people are bolting for the door.

As someone who has turned off their auto renew, I'll take a stab at this...

I like CoH for what is it and how it plays.

I wanted something new, and got it. While the trials are fun in their own way, it is not in the same way as most of the rest of the content. It has been discussed to death, but I am firmly in the camp that acknowledge that incarnates abilities have made character(s) stronger the trials do very little to make me feel more super.

Next, while it isn't yet, I know the trials will get old. I am not one that runs the same TF every day, nor the same arcs. I'll go months without having to repeat anything. The Trials are set up to foster a play it again and again mentally.

And the crafting element feels fiddly. I can't help but feel it could have been implemented cleaner... but that is a minor picking of nits.

Long story short, I'm glad many people like the trials. I wish the Devs weren't being so darn close mouthed and would make some sort of directional statement that lets me know something beyond trials for my incarnates. In the past, no matter what was in an issue I felt confident that the long term game arc was promising. I lack that feeling this time.

When 99% of the content hasn't changed, I don't understand what's motivated you to not renew.

Is that any different that the LGTF or the ITF? Is it only the new abilities that make it different? If so, then are you really leaving because you want the new abilities but are not happy with what you have to do to earn them?

Listen I tried to present that last sentence in the most neutral and non-confrontational means possible. Reason being is that I really want to understand this. Because, the stated reasons people tend to give for quitting over Incarnates tend to be some variation of:

1) I don't like the trials (for various reasons);
2) I don't like the direction the game is going in.

That's puzzling to me because the answer to the first is "Don't do them." The answer to the second is that 1/2 of 1 issue of content does not constitute a change of direction. These responses are obvious, so it appears to me that the real reason people are upset is that all these cool new abilities are being added and they want them, but don't want to do the content that awards them. Nevermind you don't actually have to.

If that's the reason, there's nothing wrong with that reason. I've left other games for the same reason. Raiding in some games is so casual unfriendly that it REALLY becomes work (I'm not sure what people are talking about here).

You have them. You just choose not to use them. Don't confuse things.

The equivalent of a slap to the face isn't an option. Let me also add that such responses will only entrench both sides of the argument, and creates a greater divide amongst the player base.

Speaking personally if I'm not logging into the game much before a new issue, then the new issue comes along and doesn't bring anything really I want to do much then not renewing for a few months and letting the heart grow fonder is a logical thing to do.


When the Jam Tomorrow turns out to be gooseberry you're probably better off taking a break for a bit to, erm ...[warning : AnalogyParseError: Redo from start]

That's a different issue. If you weren't having fun before, then yes, you should probably leave or take a break. I can understand that. But people aren't saying that for the most part. Many folks are placing the blame for their leaving solely at the feet of Issue 20.

I'll stop as soon as people stop using dumb hyperboles like "slap in the face".

Talk about entrenching responses.

I merely reciprocate the spirit of your post, and you apparently aren't amused when the tables are turned with a snarky retort to your snarky comment.

But I like fleas. They taste good with catsup!

If you're having fun pre-Incarnates then leaving is cutting your nose of to spite your face. Once the shiny wears off there'll be plenty around who can just ignore the dogpile for what it is and play the game just like we used to

"You got to dig it to dig it, you dig?"
Thelonious Monk

(again, personal viewpoint - not pretending to speak for all with similar opinions. and not a ragequit, a sadness for inevitable change)

To be fair, after playing for years, there has been some general slow down in my play anyway... it has actually gravitated to more solo activity - I like to play because it is a good game, not because it is an MMO.

There is no denying that this content is MMO targeted, which is absolutely fine but does not fit my current play activity.

That is a layered and nuanced question. Yes, it is different than an LGTF or ITF and it isn't any different at the same time.

While I recognize that people do run ITF religiously for the rewards, that is not my style. I'll run it maybe once a week. Maybe every other. The merits, and even the shards, haven't been worth my doing the same thing over and over. And, I don't need to - there are other avenues and activities that can provide equivalent benefit, solo, duo, team, whatever.

(Let me add here I think the WST has been a excellent way to drive some variety in repeating content for special reward.)

Well, I haven't left yet...
(GG, get away from my keyboard!)

That is a blunt way to state it... but perhaps it is accurate.

I have many characters I enjoy, many of those are 50 and don't get a tour around the block as often as I'd like. Of those I have... 3-4 Alpha shifted. I'd like the same ones to get additional slots... I've worked one so far, and well, we'll see how many others get attention.

I like to play all my characters, I want them all to be nifty. That is the heart of altitis, perhaps. It doesn't feel like this avenue of advancement embraces the altitis mentality lovingly.

Have no fear, I read no confrontation into the question.

(My response is also perhaps blunt, but not meant confrontationally)

"Don't do them," is a valid and accurate reponse, but seems undeniably trite on the surface. Because I don't like the trials suddenly my characters can't get Destiny, or Judgement, or Interface powers? That locks out a significant segment of future content I bet - for when future new incarnate content comes out... Then the game has kicked me out even if I wanted to stay. CoH has, to this point, been flexible enough to allow many activities to advance. This is a major change in approach, no matter how you look at it. Right or wrong, it feels off putting given my love for that previous flexibility.

As to change of direction, again, it is supposition on my part, but I don't see the future path changing any time soon. There has been enough rumor that we know more trials in the Praetorian story are likely looming. So that's I21, at a guess, with the barest of barest hints at anything else beyond that.

If it is incarnate targeted - even if it is traditional story arcs or TF - is it going to be gated or challenge designed based on the premise that those participating are 50+3, or with powerful debuffs and aoe that a normal 50 doesn't have? Or Lore pets running about? If even partially true... again then the game has "kicked players out" of new content due to flexible play style choices. Which is in contrast to previous CoH style.

As it is, I've put a good 12-15 50s on the shelf with the idea that they won't ever advance as incarnates - which means they aren't getting played at all now. And I've been dreading pillaging them for recipes to sell.
And I have multiple characters sitting in the 40s that leveling feels almost pointless now... Let alone various lowbies I had been looking forward too, or hoping for proliferation in the future.

That is part of it... it feels like a must do, because unless they tell me different I suspect my favorite characters are going to be capped out of future new content. And, lets be fair as much as I enjoy the old content that I've played the heck out of, it is that new stuff that is exciting.
But it is the sudden and abrupt carving of pathing down to a narrow, repeating margin (poorly narrated at that - but that is another conversation) with a hurdle that limits my character and play choices that feels unsatisfactory.

This, seriously. If you enjoyed playing the game before i20, and i20 took nothing away, why would you quit the game now that i20 is here and you don't want to do the content? All the things you enjoy about CoX are still there, with some new shiny things to try out (or not try out and ragepost about anyway). I certainly don't begrudge anyone not wanting to play some part of the game; I have been playing since launch and have never set foot near a Hami raid. However, I don't cry on the forums about how I have to get my Hami-Os the hard way because the devs refuse to cater to my non-Hami-raiding playstyle.

This is also true. These options are available to everyone and if you choose not to use them, that doesn't mean they don't exist.

Bottom line on the whole deal for me is that if you want the slots in a timely fashion, you are going to have to run the content that grants it. If you don't want to run the content, things are gonna be a lot slower. We can all choose whether we want to run the content or not. It's only a few people who choose not to do it and then complain that they don't get the associated rewards as fast as those people who do run the content.

Issue 21 appears to have more of the same on the way, so I can understand that view point.

Because the option exists... you could skip the hami raids and still get hami-os if you want.

You can skip pvp and get pvp ios if you want.

You can skip all TFs and still get reward merits.

You cannot skip the trial content if you want incarnate abilities.


And I do not expect this requirement to shift given current available information.

And sure all the old content is there... but is it irrational to want to continue progress the characters I've taken the time to progress so far?

So, you're a hypocrite. Congratulations.

And you got it wrong. Eva Destructions post miffed me. You're just amusing.

Oh, really? Because I was under the impression that you could now get shards from any content, convert shards to threads, and convert threads to iXP, thus getting the rewards without having to do the new content. I think what you mean is that you can't do it very quickly, which is as it should be. I don't really understand why people think they should get the shinies as fast as people who actually do the legwork.

Yes you can. It might take a lot of Shards, Inf and time, an amount some might find unreasonable, to do it, but you can still get the powers without doing any Trials