Multi-group content is not the way.
By
Adeon Hawkwood,
Posted on: 2011-04-06 22:26 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
Quote:
Yeah. That does work I have used it.|
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
Ummmm.....the escaping prisoners don't attack, they are programmed to do nothing but run away. You can keep them in that alcove all day long and they will NEVER fire a shot at you.
Using FB at other times during that trial is probably a bad idea, but it's incredibly useful in the escaping prisoners phase (now that it has been confirmed to be an effective tactic) |
I revamped my IO sets a little more to provide large bonuses towards AOE and ranged AOE and attacks. I'm not 100% sure how it will work, considdering.
I also added sets with Large HP bonuses and I am hoping for more survivability to that I can handle things better In the Lambda Trial.
Heck I even respecced out of fire and went Psi because Psi is pretty much the only thing that gets through my shields a lot of the time.
Ill keep practicing though. Just don't wanna tweak so much that it feels like math...LOL
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I want to rephrase. I was talking about the people who get the rewards to unlock these. So far I see more Tanks, Scrappers and Brutes. (Why no Stalkers? I dunno, I see them benefitting from unlocks more than most AT's)|
Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood
Lots of excellent information that I agree with...But!.
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When I meant the more "Bang for your Buck" theory it only makes sense to choose these three AT's.
They already bring high resist/def and High HP, and can taunt. They have huge amounts of survivability which makes them desirable. However when you add these other effects they because Tank-Mages as opposed to some of the other squishies who don't, or have a difficult time during the trials to begin with just because of the damage the enemies dole out, in comparison with their HP.
When you are dealing in the case of trials to gain these wonderfull powers you need to look at the scheme of it all. You are not playing in a team of 24, you are playing on teams of 8 with up to 24 people. That means contribution needs to come from damage you team is doing.
Going by Lambda here
Controllers- Holds are good, but the enemies are highly resistant, depending on your secondary you may not contribute before death hits you.
Blasters- Damage! Yay! Aggro! Dead!
Stalkers- Rarely see em. I think it's because AOE takes em out of stealth minimizing their survivability
Defenders/Corrs One deals less damage and buffs the entire 24, while one does a bit of both, They would be in the mid range for me for as to how well they do in this trial, mainly because of the secondary
MM - Pets go Boom when the AOE Hits. You are left with a weak blaster with a defender secondary
Doms - might do better because of the single target nature of their powers, however I have never played with one in a trial.
Just saying...you want the most bang for your buck you take what will become the Swiss Army Knife...which Brutes/Tanks and Scrapper become more so than the others.
~~~~~
I do need to point out that I am not frustrated with this turn of events, just making the observation.
Ok. So YAY!
I actually ran two successful Lambda's in a row. We had an excellent leader however and that really does make a difference.
However I was the only controller, with 2 defenders. The rest were melee.
I did my job soft capping people defense, and even managed to unlock my interface slot to debuff accuracy soooo, maybe my shields will help.
Boosting my range defense and liberal use of Personal Force Field helped a lot.
This time, (Not because I unlocked something shiny) I had a good time. It seemed that things went smoother, and Im thinking it's because people were not doing it within their first week release.
Im not 100% on the band wagon as of yet, but If they tweak it more it could be achievable, however it's still destressing to see the lack of other AT types participating in these trials, and I still think it has to do with AT survivability and creating the Swiss Army Knife toon as oposed to anything else.
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To be honest, I see more benefit to my non-melee ATs than my melee ATs although I'll admit I'm slightly biased because I prefer non-melee ATs.|
Originally Posted by Nyx
I want to rephrase. I was talking about the people who get the rewards to unlock these. So far I see more Tanks, Scrappers and Brutes. (Why no Stalkers? I dunno, I see them benefitting from unlocks more than most AT's)
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My two melee characters (Inv/Axe Tanker and BS/Sword Scrapper) are already extremely tough running on simple SOs and deal adequate damage. My three "main" characters (an AR/Dev Blaster, a Traps/AR Defender and a Bots/Traps MM) are, through significant IO investment, relatively tough but lack the staying power that my melee characters have. Even my MM, who has one of the most broken combos in the game, can feel squishy if I get hit with significant AoE damage (the best example being enemies with Footstomp).
I am not, for the most part, feeling the need for more survivability on my melee characters but for my ranged characters the Incarnate system is awesome. For Destiny I am taking Rebirth on all three of them, I have used IOs to build up reasonable defenses on all three and I have significant resistances to some damage types (S/L/E mostly) but when I do take damage I lack any response other than inspirations. Rebirth closes that hole and adds another layer to my defenses improving my survivability substantially.
Similarly the DoT Reactive Interface helps all three characters a lot when soloing. AR/Dev is a set that has always been slow against single tough targets so adding an extra DoT and resistance debuff helps melt bosses faster which is nice since he lacks the staying power of the other two. For the Traps/AR the damage boost to my AoEs helps a lot with large spawns (the combo of Acid Mortar and blaster damage Ignite means he actually has an easier time with bosses than the AR/Dev). For the MM the reactive Interface improves the value of BG mode. When soloing I tend to keep my Battle Drones and Protector Bots in BG mode (out of laziness mostly) which has the unfortunate side effect of spreading their damage out. With the Reactive interface this works to my advantage, since the Interface stacks are target based, not caster based, and not affected by the purple patch having my lower level bots spread their attacks amongst different targets gets me the most bang for my buck since they can build up DoTs on lots of targets while my Assault Bot focuses on large groups or tough targets.
Judgement/Lore I don't have much to say about. both give me more damage which is always nice but neither really change the way I play beyond making the occasional tough fight a bit easier.
At the end of the day I guess my point is that people will play what they want to play. The Incarnate abilities provide strong benefits for all ATs by allowing them to select powers that shore up their existing weaknesses. Melee ATs will continue to be popular because they are easy to play and relatively self-sufficient but the other ATs get just as much bang for their buck if not more.
[edit]Just coming back in to add something here. Rereading the next section is comes across as somewhat lrn2play. That is not my intent at all. The general point I am trying to show is that the non-melee ATs have always had a different play style from melee ATs. The incarnate system does not change that at all. However, it is less forgiving for them than it is for melee ATs. Melee ATs have always favored a "damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead" approach to the game and for the most part the incarnate system does not change that (except maybe encouraging them to go in as a group). The other ATs, on the other hand, have always favored a more careful approach to groups, making sure they have sufficient support before leaping in, especially on teams. The problem is that while the "damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead" approach was not ideal for non-melee ATs it worked well enough that a lot of people (including me) used it anyway (especially on IO'd characters). The incarnate content is much less forgiving and as such non-melee ATs need to take more care than they are generally used to.[/edit]
More specific responses:
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| Controllers- Holds are good, but the enemies are highly resistant, depending on your secondary you may not contribute before death hits you. |
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| Blasters- Damage! Yay! Aggro! Dead! |
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| Stalkers- Rarely see em. I think it's because AOE takes em out of stealth minimizing their survivability |
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| Defenders/Corrs One deals less damage and buffs the entire 24, while one does a bit of both, They would be in the mid range for me for as to how well they do in this trial, mainly because of the secondary |
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| MM - Pets go Boom when the AOE Hits. You are left with a weak blaster with a defender secondary |
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| Doms - might do better because of the single target nature of their powers, however I have never played with one in a trial. |
To date, my Plant/Storm Controller is the toon with T3s in almost all slots
My current project is a SoA Crab (tank death incarnate)...
all I'm really after for my Thug/Dark MM is a Lore pet (but my pets are a hindrance for phase 2 of Lambda)
I don't know if I want to Ascend my WP Brute (more of a concept thing that I'll have to figure out later)
and I'm almost at a no-go for my Ice/Ice Dom; the one that actually should be an Incarnate (again, a concept thing that I'll have to figure out later)
and the 2 I really want to level up is a Widow (Stalker) and another MM
Brutes, Tanks and Scrappers really don't do it for me... I guess I have a preference for 'green deck' and/or 'blue deck' character types
Apparently, I play "City of Shakespeare"
*Arc #95278-Gathering the Four Winds -3 step arc; challenging - 5 Ratings/3 Stars (still working out the kinks)
*Arc #177826-Lights, Camera, Scream! - 3 step arc, camp horror; try out in 1st person POV - 35 Ratings/4 Stars
Going back to the original post in this thread....
I have to agree. I've cancelled my account after seeing Issue 20, clearly seeing where the Devs were taking this game. I had my reservations after 19, but 20 sealed the deal that actually made my cancel my sub after 4+ years.
When I first joined CoH, it was my first MMO and I was recruited by two friends who also play casually. We eventually brought in another friend, who also plays casually. We have jobs and lives, so play time is limited. The two friends who recruited me barely play anymore (and do not participate in this incarnate stuff) and one plans to just keep on playing the lower characters and ignoring these incarnate systems.
What I enjoyed about CoH from the beginning was that the game itself was soloable. Sure you had difficult challenges at the end levels with the elite bosses but for the most part you could handle those dependent on your AT. You could actually reach level 50 on your own - a team was not absolutely needed to play the game.
Obviously teams had a benefit with leveling faster and interesting content (the task forces) but you were not forced to play them to advance and the the developers constantly added new content that could keep you interested in all of your characters at any level. And even where the content that teams were needed, they were fun and presented a challenge that made you think about the best strategy to complete the task. The task forces were interesting and the two end game raids were fun and anyone could participate.
With Issue 19 and 20 however, it's clear that the mindset has moved completely towards building these extremely frustrating and difficult incarnate missions and pretty much ignoring the rest of the game - sure two task forces were added but that is pretty much it in terms of content for this issue - and not everyone likes to team but the lack of solo content since issue 18 is for another thread.
With the incarnate trials, not only do you exclude people who haven't purchased GR, you exclude the people who haven't run the unlock yet. And even those who have must have it slotted, which excludes even more.
Then when you jump all those hurdles, you get into these trials and they aren't fun. They are just massive computer kills everything in site trials that require the right set up of a team - and that right there eliminates any casual player who has decided to even travel this far into this extremely complicated system as it is.
Then you get into the issues of how poorly these were thought out....when I ran the Lambada sector, the league decided to all attack the turrets up top. Which is great and all except for the fact that the developers had the brilliant idea to restrict temp. powers so my super-speeder basically had to twirl his thumbs and do nothing for that part of the strike. I won't even go into how frustrating the rest of the trial was with the constant death and face planting because of how this was set up - a lot of it had to do with the fact that it was new and no one knew what they were doing but even allowing for that type of massacre is part of the gaming style I don't enjoy.
I've enjoyed the game for its casual play and fun content (solo and team). These last two issues have moved from the casual and fun to the elite hardcore play tests that include grinding at ridiculous levlels to get your character up to par to even compete in these.
I had my reservations after seeing Issue 19 and seeing even worse of this type of content being added in 20 with absolutely nothing else made me see that this game is headed towards trying to retain the hardcore players rather than building the casual fan base.
So after a lengthy tl;dr, I've cancelled my sub after four years due to this new grind and elite play style they are pushing in favor of the casual player.
Not sure how well that will work out for them as this game is already on the older end, it seems like they want to keep the hardcore players interested at the expense of the casual player - but I'm not sure how many of those exist to cover the costs of the casual players leaving.
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Time will tell. I WANT to love this. I really really want to love this, and half of me does. I really enjoy taking my controller out on suicdal missions because with Grav/FF/Psi it's been not hard. Or I just don't notice it being hard and I do like this challenge...sort of.|
Originally Posted by Yogi_Bare
To date, my Plant/Storm Controller is the toon with T3s in almost all slots
My current project is a SoA Crab (tank death incarnate)... all I'm really after for my Thug/Dark MM is a Lore pet (but my pets are a hindrance for phase 2 of Lambda) I don't know if I want to Ascend my WP Brute (more of a concept thing that I'll have to figure out later) and I'm almost at a no-go for my Ice/Ice Dom; the one that actually should be an Incarnate (again, a concept thing that I'll have to figure out later) and the 2 I really want to level up is a Widow (Stalker) and another MM Brutes, Tanks and Scrappers really don't do it for me... I guess I have a preference for 'green deck' and/or 'blue deck' character types |
I only bring up this because when I join forces in trials I am and have been the only controller for the last 9 trials.
As a Controller player I ask you...whats wrong with us? I like us? But why am I usually the one and only?
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I think it's mostly a matter of player demographics. The more self-sufficient ATs (mostly melee ATs) have always been quite a bit more popular than other ATs due to being able to solo very well. Prior to the incarnate system this didn't really matter much since it was self-selecting. People who liked to team tended not to worry about being self-sufficient while those who liked to solo weren't joining teams very often. The Incarnate system gives a very strong incentive to team so people who were previously solo-focused are teaming a lot more. This shifts the AT demographics in favor of ATs popular with soloists.|
Originally Posted by Nyx
As a Controller player I ask you...whats wrong with us? I like us? But why am I usually the one and only?
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That being said I give the devs credit for making team content that does not require a careful balance of ATs. Yes, at the moment we are seeing a higher portion of melee ATs but that isn't really impacting our ability to do a trial.
Compare that to a certain other MMO where you need a fixed ratio of Damage, Healing and Tanking with the net result of a huge shortage of Healing and Tanking.
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Originally Posted by Lucenter
Alot of the same concerned shared...but!.
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Ok. Don't cancel. It's been just more than a week, and you're still not lacking. I have my reservation and I will until I am proven wrong, but dicerning the Dev concept of what will be in the future is not something you can determine unless you are a precog.
I canceled my sub when AE came out.
Why, because it was the new thing that hindered me in grouping for nomal content, however in this content it only ever applies to those above or seeking to become 50 incarnates. Not all will want to do this.
Anything 46 and above might me affected but generally speaking they have done the best the can by limiting this by setting up Weekly Tf's in whihc your alpha and incarante powers are null.
While I have mixed reservations of this issue, because it's become a 50's play ground, I also have to keep rational thought that this is like offering a unicorn! Everyone wants one for the first month and then things gradually head back to normal. It's the nature of most MMO's
And while I still feel some AT's get the short end of the stick, I really dont believe that it will remain that way. If I did I would cancel like I did when AE came into play.
However, this is a passing fancy. some people will always have altitis and want to try new things, however this will come in time.
My 36 Widow who I adore has no hope in hades to level anytime soon as grouping is slim because people are playing their50's now. and while that frustrates me, quitting to join...I dunno...another game in which already implements the things you dislike about the changes made here, seems pointless.
The only thing reasonable is to post concerns and hope someone generally reads them, and takes the feedback to the people who need it. Once this is done then you can enjoy the game again.
Even though I find the facination of proliferation and losing unique AT status frustrating, I have to also realize that when things come down to it, those tho need to run a Sister Psyche TF have to play art 24 or something, which means all their magical well power is useless and they...even if they hate it they need my contribution.
Now...this contradicts my oppinions thus far because I am very frustrated with the entire incarnate system, however I have to be rational in my voicings because the only way I can make changes it to point out virtues and flaws of said system, and if It falls on dead ears then and only then can I truely quit because the "Fun Factor" is replaced by something Id rather do elseware.
The game is still soloable. That wont change but the dynamic has, and for good or for bad, I have yet to conlude.
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I agree...however this just supports my theory of certain AT's benifiting from the changes and not effectively addressing the rest. If you have something HP based, then HP with the bells and whistles becomes the top choice, and if half the player base realizes this then the concept of AT strengths and weaknesses boils down to what they can become later when they recieve these shiny things. Which undermines the grounds on which the game was created on.
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Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood
I think it's mostly a matter of player demographics. The more self-sufficient ATs (mostly melee ATs) have always been quite a bit more popular than other ATs due to being able to solo very well. Prior to the incarnate system this didn't really matter much since it was self-selecting. People who liked to team tended not to worry about being self-sufficient while those who liked to solo weren't joining teams very often. The Incarnate system gives a very strong incentive to team so people who were previously solo-focused are teaming a lot more. This shifts the AT demographics in favor of ATs popular with soloists.
That being said I give the devs credit for making team content that does not require a careful balance of ATs. Yes, at the moment we are seeing a higher portion of melee ATs but that isn't really impacting our ability to do a trial. Compare that to a certain other MMO where you need a fixed ratio of Damage, Healing and Tanking with the net result of a huge shortage of Healing and Tanking. |
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Its clear to you, and if you wish to quit on that basis, that's your prerogative. Just like it was clear after I9 that this game was going to focus on nothing but gear, just like it was clear after I18 that this game was going to focus on nothing but Praetoria, just like after I11 it was clear the devs didn't want to make any new content anymore and was just throwing Ourorboros at us to package up old content as new content.|
Originally Posted by Lucenter
With Issue 19 and 20 however, it's clear that the mindset has moved completely towards building these extremely frustrating and difficult incarnate missions and pretty much ignoring the rest of the game - sure two task forces were added but that is pretty much it in terms of content for this issue - and not everyone likes to team but the lack of solo content since issue 18 is for another thread.
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Of course, I'm wondering how you managed to survive the four issue and 17 month gap between Issue 13 and Issue 17 when there was also no solo story arc content added to the game.
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| Not sure how well that will work out for them as this game is already on the older end, it seems like they want to keep the hardcore players interested at the expense of the casual player - but I'm not sure how many of those exist to cover the costs of the casual players leaving. |
In other words, they have decided to add something to the game that you don't like, and you could choose to ignore but choose not to. It happens. One day, it may happen to me, although my tolerant gameplay choices make it probably much less likely. Its not personal, and its not deliberately targeted at you, and its not specifically choosing one group of players over another. Its making an addition to the game that not everyone will like, just like all other additions to the game that not everyone ended up liking. I don't specifically enjoy the thought of losing anyone as a player, but neither would I sacrifice the end game to keep you, just like I wouldn't sacrifice the invention system to keep the players we lost to it, or Going Rogue itself to the players we lost to that.
I'm not going to ask you to stay. I'm not going to ask you to leave. You should do what you think makes the most sense to you, and there comes a point in most gamers lives when they decide to move on from a game. But if you're moving on because you think Paragon Studios is "abandoning" non-Incarnate content or solo players or casual players or whatever else, I'm saying you're leaving because of a false conclusion. But that is still your choice to make.
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I'm sorry you feel that you have to cancel your subscription, but obviously that is a personal choice only you can make.|
Originally Posted by Lucenter
With Issue 19 and 20 however, it's clear that the mindset has moved completely towards building these extremely frustrating and difficult incarnate missions and pretty much ignoring the rest of the game - sure two task forces were added but that is pretty much it in terms of content for this issue - and not everyone likes to team but the lack of solo content since issue 18 is for another thread.
With the incarnate trials, not only do you exclude people who haven't purchased GR, you exclude the people who haven't run the unlock yet. And even those who have must have it slotted, which excludes even more. Then when you jump all those hurdles, you get into these trials and they aren't fun. They are just massive computer kills everything in site trials that require the right set up of a team - and that right there eliminates any casual player who has decided to even travel this far into this extremely complicated system as it is. Then you get into the issues of how poorly these were thought out....when I ran the Lambada sector, the league decided to all attack the turrets up top. Which is great and all except for the fact that the developers had the brilliant idea to restrict temp. powers so my super-speeder basically had to twirl his thumbs and do nothing for that part of the strike. I won't even go into how frustrating the rest of the trial was with the constant death and face planting because of how this was set up - a lot of it had to do with the fact that it was new and no one knew what they were doing but even allowing for that type of massacre is part of the gaming style I don't enjoy. I've enjoyed the game for its casual play and fun content (solo and team). These last two issues have moved from the casual and fun to the elite hardcore play tests that include grinding at ridiculous levlels to get your character up to par to even compete in these. |
However, I did want to correct some misconceptions before you left. Whether that affects your decision or not only you will know.
1) Neither the Alpha Slot, nor any other slot or Incarnate power is required to run Lambda and BAF -- the two new trials. Sure, those things make it easier and some doofus on some server might only invite incarnates to his league, but the game does not require it for the trials. It is, however, required to have the Alpha slot unlocked to participate in Apex and Tin Mage and slotted to avoid the -4 level debuff.
2) I agree with you that speedsters are at a disadvantage against the turrets in the Lambda trial. But if you have the jump pack from the Good vs. Evil Pack ($9.99 from the online store), that is one of the few temp powers that works in the trials, as do beast run and ninja run. Using one of those should get you to the first turret and then you can run along the wall to reach the others.
I hope you decide to stay, or at least come back soon. If not, have a good one and be careful out there! *Cues Hill Street Blues Theme*
P.S. Minor nitpick with Arcanaville:
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Of course, I'm wondering how you managed to survive the four issue and 17 month gap between Issue 13 and Issue 17 when there was also no solo story arc content added to the game.
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50s: Inv/SS PB Emp/Dark Grav/FF DM/Regen TA/A Sonic/Elec MA/Regen Fire/Kin Sonic/Rad Ice/Kin Crab Fire/Cold NW Merc/Dark Emp/Sonic Rad/Psy Emp/Ice WP/DB FA/SM
Overlord of Dream Team and Nightmare Squad
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I disagree, I think that the incarnate abilities are very useful for all ATs. The abilities that they provide do not change by AT which means that they provide a static boost to everyone. However this static boost is less powerful than the equivalent power-set from a specialized AT. The net effect of this is that the difference in power levels between the ATs is actually narrowing slightly with the addition of Incarnate content. Look at it this way, Judgment provides an equal damage bonus to all ATs but it will have a larger percentage increase an a Defender's damage output than that of a Scrapper. Conversely Scrappers gain some force multiplication abilities but Defenders get the same force multiplication abilities on top of their existing ones.|
Originally Posted by Nyx
I agree...however this just supports my theory of certain AT's benifiting from the changes and not effectively addressing the rest. If you have something HP based, then HP with the bells and whistles becomes the top choice, and if half the player base realizes this then the concept of AT strengths and weaknesses boils down to what they can become later when they recieve these shiny things. Which undermines the grounds on which the game was created on.
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So at the end of the day I do not think any single AT is getting more from it than any other. However, some ATs do perform better in certain situations than others, that is undeniable. For example, a Scrapper solos a lot faster than a Defender but the Defender is more useful to a team (since he's a force multiplier). I don't particularly care for this method of balance but that is another discussion entirely.
In fact, from what I can see the Incarnate system is actually going some way to rectify this balance decision. If you go back to my previous post I talked about how the slots made soloing my Traps/AR Defender easier. I didn't talk about how it improved his teaming ability because the benefits are minor compared to his current team support powers. The main benefit is that having additional buffs allows me to make up some holes in my current array while solo. Conversely for a Scrapper having a few force multiplication abilities makes him more appealing to a team since he can provide more than damage.
The simple fact is that teaming in CoX has been hideously broken in favor of Force Multiplication ATs (witness the exploits of Fire/Rad super teams, Green Machine or the Repeat Offenders) because buffs and debuffs are multiplicative while damage is additive. Adding limited force multipliers to the incarnate system makes ATs that aren't force multipliers more useful.
However the inverse is that Force Multiplier ATs have always had soloing issues and again the Incarnate systems is designed to address that. A damage buff in the form of Judegment/Lore increases their average solo speed somewhat, Destiny allows them to get some of the benefits of defense powers (notably mez protection if they lack it) while Interface allows them to round out their array of debuffs or increase their damage.
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I think I've been more fortunate and have been on teams that typically had 2 or more Controllers (besides myself).|
Originally Posted by Nyx
Time will tell. I WANT to love this. I really really want to love this, and half of me does. I really enjoy taking my controller out on suicdal missions because with Grav/FF/Psi it's been not hard. Or I just don't notice it being hard and I do like this challenge...sort of.
I only bring up this because when I join forces in trials I am and have been the only controller for the last 9 trials. As a Controller player I ask you...whats wrong with us? I like us? But why am I usually the one and only? |
But, speaking as a solo player (primarily), it is a pain in the butt to level up a 'troller without that team support or a secondary like /Storm; IMO. Hence why you're not seeing as many floating around the trials. I have an Elec/Rad that I would like to level up to 50... but geez; seriously?
Apparently, I play "City of Shakespeare"
*Arc #95278-Gathering the Four Winds -3 step arc; challenging - 5 Ratings/3 Stars (still working out the kinks)
*Arc #177826-Lights, Camera, Scream! - 3 step arc, camp horror; try out in 1st person POV - 35 Ratings/4 Stars
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Potential which was promptly ignored in favor of farm after farm after farm.|
Originally Posted by Bionic_Flea
Issue 14 was the Mission Architect, which created the potential for limitless solo arcs.
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Not That I'm Bitter.
My characters at Virtueverse
Faces of the City
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Take a number.
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Originally Posted by Megajoule
Potential which was promptly ignored in favor of farm after farm after farm.
Not That I'm Bitter. |
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But if the person I was responding to was willing to count that, then there has been solo story arc content added in every issue, including every week since I18 released.
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Originally Posted by Bionic_Flea
P.S. Minor nitpick with Arcanaville:
Issue 14 was the Mission Architect, which created the potential for limitless solo arcs. |
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My number reads "01". I was saying for months that the devs would be crazy to add rewards to a player-authored mission editing system, before the devs announced they were adding rewards to a player-authored mission editing system and proved that neither of us was as smart as anyone thought I or the devs actually were.
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Originally Posted by Venture
Take a number.
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Good post.|
Originally Posted by Lucenter
Going back to the original post in this thread....
I have to agree. I've cancelled my account after seeing Issue 20, clearly seeing where the Devs were taking this game. I had my reservations after 19, but 20 sealed the deal that actually made my cancel my sub after 4+ years. When I first joined CoH, it was my first MMO and I was recruited by two friends who also play casually. We eventually brought in another friend, who also plays casually. We have jobs and lives, so play time is limited. The two friends who recruited me barely play anymore (and do not participate in this incarnate stuff) and one plans to just keep on playing the lower characters and ignoring these incarnate systems. What I enjoyed about CoH from the beginning was that the game itself was soloable. Sure you had difficult challenges at the end levels with the elite bosses but for the most part you could handle those dependent on your AT. You could actually reach level 50 on your own - a team was not absolutely needed to play the game. Obviously teams had a benefit with leveling faster and interesting content (the task forces) but you were not forced to play them to advance and the the developers constantly added new content that could keep you interested in all of your characters at any level. And even where the content that teams were needed, they were fun and presented a challenge that made you think about the best strategy to complete the task. The task forces were interesting and the two end game raids were fun and anyone could participate. With Issue 19 and 20 however, it's clear that the mindset has moved completely towards building these extremely frustrating and difficult incarnate missions and pretty much ignoring the rest of the game - sure two task forces were added but that is pretty much it in terms of content for this issue - and not everyone likes to team but the lack of solo content since issue 18 is for another thread. With the incarnate trials, not only do you exclude people who haven't purchased GR, you exclude the people who haven't run the unlock yet. And even those who have must have it slotted, which excludes even more. Then when you jump all those hurdles, you get into these trials and they aren't fun. They are just massive computer kills everything in site trials that require the right set up of a team - and that right there eliminates any casual player who has decided to even travel this far into this extremely complicated system as it is. Then you get into the issues of how poorly these were thought out....when I ran the Lambada sector, the league decided to all attack the turrets up top. Which is great and all except for the fact that the developers had the brilliant idea to restrict temp. powers so my super-speeder basically had to twirl his thumbs and do nothing for that part of the strike. I won't even go into how frustrating the rest of the trial was with the constant death and face planting because of how this was set up - a lot of it had to do with the fact that it was new and no one knew what they were doing but even allowing for that type of massacre is part of the gaming style I don't enjoy. I've enjoyed the game for its casual play and fun content (solo and team). These last two issues have moved from the casual and fun to the elite hardcore play tests that include grinding at ridiculous levlels to get your character up to par to even compete in these. I had my reservations after seeing Issue 19 and seeing even worse of this type of content being added in 20 with absolutely nothing else made me see that this game is headed towards trying to retain the hardcore players rather than building the casual fan base. So after a lengthy tl;dr, I've cancelled my sub after four years due to this new grind and elite play style they are pushing in favor of the casual player. Not sure how well that will work out for them as this game is already on the older end, it seems like they want to keep the hardcore players interested at the expense of the casual player - but I'm not sure how many of those exist to cover the costs of the casual players leaving. |
Let me add that, failure to release any new costume pieces in Issue 21 will cause people to question the direction of the game.
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I wouldn't restrict that to costume pieces, myself. Failure to release any of the following would definitely count, however:|
Originally Posted by Gemini_2099
Let me add that, failure to release any new costume pieces in Issue 21 will cause people to question the direction of the game.
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*Costume pieces
*Power customization options of ANY kind
*New weapons (Um... Hello, dual pistols?)
*New powersets or proliferated powersets
*Anything doable or attainable solo
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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I agree completely.|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
I wouldn't restrict that to costume pieces, myself. Failure to release any of the following would definitely count, however:
*Costume pieces *Power customization options of ANY kind *New weapons (Um... Hello, dual pistols?) *New powersets or proliferated powersets *Anything doable or attainable solo |
As things stand right now those of us who do not wish to participate in the Incarnate system are reduced to soloing most of the time. I just checked and right now on Liberty, a search returns fifty people online. Forty-six of them are 50's. To say that low level teaming is dead is a bit of an understatement. Doing any of the things in Sam's list would at least help those of us that don't want to grind the Incarnate system to have something fresh to do upon occasion.
At this point I'm not even asking for new story arcs. SOMETHING new to occupy my time would be nice.
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So did everyone just forget that major solo friendly system added in I18?|
Originally Posted by Lucenter
Going back to the original post in this thread....
I have to agree. I've cancelled my account after seeing Issue 20, clearly seeing where the Devs were taking this game. I had my reservations after 19, but 20 sealed the deal that actually made my cancel my sub after 4+ years. |
Tips provide story based missions, most of them divorced from Praetoria. These missions are all soloable. If you have Going Rogue, these missions can be highly rewarding, both from a RP standpoint (alignment), badges (for changing alignments and doing other faction's missions), and power (inventions). These missions opened up the strongest inventions in the game to everyone. They made formerly pricey inventions, like LoTG 7.5% easy to obtain for a casual time commitment. In Issue 19, they added more of these missions as well as adding more Morality missions to cap them off.
How do people reconcile to themselves the belief that the devs are making a major change in focus? That's the most patently ridiculous complaint about Issue 20. The devs decided to create a highly casual friendly endgame system. For the first issue in three, we don't have specific soloable content added and this apparently constitutes a major change in focus.
If you want to quit fine, that is your choice. But the devs haven't abandoned casual gamers in ANY way.
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
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Made me smile. Thank you.
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
I have to stand with Moo here. This reading between the lines is... Wait a minute... What is that?
 Can you see it? There's something there, I'm sure of it. Let's look a little closer.  There is! There is something there! What is that? It looks like text. Let's see...  Is that? No... You can't mean that... It's too small to read.  Oh, man, yes, it is. I can't believe this. That can't be right. It must be...  Oh, come on, now! Moo! I'm ashamed of you, man. I'm ashamed of you. I never thought to read between the lines of your posts, but who would have thought THAT was there? Well, I am sickened and disgusted! |
Enjoy your day please.
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I was going to respond about how I 100% disagree on the tip missions and then I saw:|
Originally Posted by EvilGeko
So did everyone just forget that major solo friendly system added in I18?
Tips provide story based missions, most of them divorced from Praetoria. These missions are all soloable. If you have Going Rogue, these missions can be highly rewarding, both from a RP standpoint (alignment), badges (for changing alignments and doing other faction's missions), and power (inventions). These missions opened up the strongest inventions in the game to everyone. They made formerly pricey inventions, like LoTG 7.5% easy to obtain for a casual time commitment. In Issue 19, they added more of these missions as well as adding more Morality missions to cap them off. How do people reconcile to themselves the belief that the devs are making a major change in focus? That's the most patently ridiculous complaint about Issue 20. The devs decided to create a highly casual friendly endgame system. For the first issue in three, we don't have specific soloable content added and this apparently constitutes a major change in focus. If you want to quit fine, that is your choice. But the devs haven't abandoned casual gamers in ANY way. |
"The devs decided to create a highly casual friendly endgame system. "
Then the post lost all credibility.
I don't know how even the most ardent supporters can classify that system as "highly casual friendly".
In response to everyone else, I understand why some like it. I just personally do not like where this is going and none of the people I play with do either, so it's not like this is one persons opinion. Most just up and leave instead of explaining why.
My subscription ends this week sometime, I may come back and try in a few issues if I see them taking a new path of development but I really do not see that happening and if I wanted to grind I'd go play one of the other 10 million MMORPG's.
Using FB at other times during that trial is probably a bad idea, but it's incredibly useful in the escaping prisoners phase (now that it has been confirmed to be an effective tactic)
See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately.