Speed TFs make me sad
By
Anti_Proton,
Posted on: 2011-02-22 08:46 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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This! I've gotten very tired of being on TF's where everyone is dying regularly because the team is split up trying to speed run it. I would always rather be on a steamroll team than a group of guys that happen to be in the same mission each trying to complete it as fast as possible. It doesn't take THAT much longer to do them that way and everyone on the team has fun, not just the guy who gets to the objective first.|
Originally Posted by Minotaur
Part of the problem is that there are a lot of bad speedruns about. People who "speedrun" an ITF in 45 minutes with bodies scattered everywhere who's be better just steamrollering in 50-55 for way better rewards.
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It's like the guy that passes you in a dangerous way on the street and speeds away then you end up parking next to him in the same lot a few minutes later while he's just now getting out of his car... lots of stupid, dangerous driving to save 30 seconds.
If you are forming up a PUG then you probably shouldn't assume the team is capable of doing a successful speed run unless you are sure you can solo the thing yourself.
It's a vet thing... after running the same TF more then 100 times it gets old. Since you need the rewards the TF provides if you want to further develop your toons it is an appropriate way, in my opinion, of doing it and fun in its own way. I understand it's not everyone's cup of tea but thank carrots it is a possibility.
If you are a new player, by all means take your time and do it slowly, learn the ropes and bask in the lore. In fact I encourage it. But trust me, after a time you too will feel the need to bypass certain sections/missions/whatever as fast as possible.
YMMV.
Rabbits & Hares:Blue (Mind/Emp Controller)Maroon (Rad/Thermal Corruptor)and one of each AT all at 50
MA Arcs: Apples of Contention - 3184; Zen & Relaxation - 35392; Tears of Leviathan - 121733 | All posts are rated "R" for "R-r-rrrrr, baby!"|Now, and this is very important... do you want a hug? COH Faces @Blue Rabbit
I usually play scrappers, and I'm frequently on speed TFs. I take great pride in having builds that allow me to stealth, teleport team members in, in knowing how to get to missions fast and using all the various tricks and shortcuts at the right time (is this the right mission to use my Mission Transporter?) and in being able to solo a large group of enemies or free a hostage when needed. We did a Sister Psyche in 1 hour 16 minutes last night, that's moving quite fast and I was able to get to bed on time. ^_^ It can be a lot of fun to see how fast you can zerg a TF, and to run several in a row.
But I like kill-alls too. What scrapper doesn't? Killing everything is the scrapper way of doing it. I've never been on a kill absolutely everything ITF yet, but I know I'd enjoy it. A couple of weeks ago we ran a +4 kill most Citadel, meant for helping people level up. That got to be a bit of a grind at the end, we didn't have the ideal team for it, but overall I enjoy that kind of TF too.
What's important is that people know what kind of TF you're running before you start it.
my lil RWZ Challenge vid
Go slow if you like to go slow. Find people that like to go slow and do it with them
Go fast if you like to go fast. Find people that like to go fast and do it with them.
Don't force someone to go slow or fast if they don't want to.
Don't tell someone that doing it their way instead of your way is wrong. There is no right or wrong in this particular discussion. Only preferences.
Unless you disagree with me. In which case you are obviously wrong.
50s: Inv/SS PB Emp/Dark Grav/FF DM/Regen TA/A Sonic/Elec MA/Regen Fire/Kin Sonic/Rad Ice/Kin Crab Fire/Cold NW Merc/Dark Emp/Sonic Rad/Psy Emp/Ice WP/DB FA/SM
Overlord of Dream Team and Nightmare Squad
Play on Virtue. I semi-regularly run TF's (usually ends up being either ITF, KHAAAAAAANNN!!!, or Sister Psyche. My method is to get a well organized team (generally, I'll end up with about 6 people from the group I run with nightly, plus 2 extras from Virtue TFs 2010), and just run the TF. My routine (since 90% of the time, I'm tanking) is "If it's between the door, and the objective, it's hitting the floor". That said, I've done 2 or 3 speed runs, just in the interest of time (not time/rewards, mind you, just time concerns). 36 minute MoKhan was actually fun, despite missing 80% of the rewards...
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No, it's not just you. And it's not just being newish. I have been playing for well over 3 years and totally agree with you!|
Originally Posted by Irish Fury
Rewards which are used to run speed TFs more effectively. It just seems a bit...redundant. I guess it's just my newbie naivete talking.
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I hate when TFs are Speed Run. I try not to do them that way when I lead either... but sometimes a person on the team doesn't get that, and does things anyway, (depending on that player's usefulness) they will usually get a warning then a kick from me. Granted, there are some TFs (like those found in the Shards) that are endlessly repetitive and so, to me, it is cool to skip a bit here and shorten something there... but just to run them fast for the sake of being fast is dumb to me.
Since the incarnate system has come out, I truefully can't see any point what so every in ghosting mish's were the npcs are lvl 50 or higher.
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Time constraints. Which is why it's important to be upfront about needs/requests.
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Originally Posted by midgard2
Since the incarnate system has come out, I truefully can't see any point what so every in ghosting mish's were the npcs are lvl 50 or higher.
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Let's Dance!
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Not so, I'm afraid, when the original six TFs were in the game, if you logged out or DCed you were off the TF. In fact worse then that, with no auto-exemping, if you were exemped down and your mentor logged or DCed you were off the TF. It wasn't until a few issues in that tech was added so you could log off and log back on and still be on the TF. The original design, I believe, was that the TFs would be the kind of "raid" content other games had, which would take hours to complete with a dedicated team. |
Originally Posted by Dr_Mechano
Plus most of the older Taskforces (the original six heroside except Positron) were designed with the idea that they would be done over a period of several days rather than run all in one big chunk by comparrison the modern taskforces are shorter but more intense in the action (compare say the 12-13 missions of a Sister Psyche TF to the 6 in Lady Grey TF).
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You are right, though, that as time went on and devs saw the popularity of shorter, more interesting TFs (Hess was the first of the "new breed", I believe) they went that direction, which is why all the redside SFs are shorter then any of the original 6 heroside TFs. New ones also don't have the "run all over to missions in various random zones" aspect either.
To the OP, I know what you mean. I also prefer TFs where you actually fight some things, and if I have the time I don't mind fighting more. Definitely try to either form your own or hook up with folks who are doing "kill most" TFs, or you could even consider joining a roleplaying sg on Virtue that would run them for the stories.
I can see the appeal to speeding them for folks who actually have more then a couple hours per week to play so have done them many dozens of times. Though I have also seen some "speed" ones that weren't, because everyone ran off in different directions and died (couple of ITF missions in particular) which made them slower then if the team had just stuck together and fought stuff. Its at least pretty rare to find a high level TF team that can't steamroller the TFs at a brisk pace.
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So.... if I feel the same way about, say, the Sister Psyche TF, that it's "endlessly repetitive" and that it's "cool to skip a bit here and shorten something there" does that make me "dumb"?|
Originally Posted by Thirty-Seven
Granted, there are some TFs (like those found in the Shards) that are endlessly repetitive and so, to me, it is cool to skip a bit here and shorten something there... but just to run them fast for the sake of being fast is dumb to me.
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Or do I have to evaluate each TF exactly as you do to avoid being considered "dumb"?
Never argue with stupid people. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
@vanda1 and @nakoa2
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Consider this: some of us have more than enough shards for crafting our goodies. In fact, if you run a lot of TFs (which running them faster facilitates) you need less shards, because you don't have to spend shards creating components. Because this is how I plan and play, I have four level 50s with their very rare, and three of them have at least 30 shards left over. (I have five more 50s on their way to the very rare, and all of them also have more than enough shards.|
Originally Posted by midgard2
Since the incarnate system has come out, I truefully can't see any point what so every in ghosting mish's were the npcs are lvl 50 or higher.
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Now, I certainly expect to need more shards, but I get shards from playing the game, and it looks like we've got at least several weeks before I20 lands. (I am expecting an open beta beyond just the Trial "sneak peeks", and regular betas usually take a couple of weeks at least.)
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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This.|
Originally Posted by UberGuy
Consider this: some of us have more than enough shards for crafting our goodies. In fact, if you run a lot of TFs (which running them faster facilitates) you need less shards, because you don't have to spend shards creating components. Because this is how I plan and play, I have four level 50s with their very rare, and three of them have at least 30 shards left over. (I have five more 50s on their way to the very rare, and all of them also have more than enough shards.
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I have no 50s with very rares, because I used the Sister Psyche WST week to get all my lowbies some progress toward the TFC and catch up the few toons that were behind from the weeks before. By the end of this Apex week, I should have 9 toons with very rare, and other one with enough Notices but not enough shards because I only recently unlocked alpha on him.
Running fast may not drop as many shards (but I don't think the difference is as extreme as people are making it out to be. Hell, last night on a 23-minute ITF, one of us got 7 shards!), but I have three of just about every component on all my active 50s. I rarely have to craft anything out of shards. And I don't do this out of planning out what each toon needs. I just run it ALL, quickly, and I end up with what I need when I need it.
Run slow if you want to go slow, but saying that there is no reason to run quickly is missing the point.
Never argue with stupid people. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
@vanda1 and @nakoa2
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Speed ITFs are the best rewards by far since you get the end reward, you are *required* to defeat lots of mobs and it's over in 20 minutes give or take.|
Originally Posted by PuceNonagon
Running fast may not drop as many shards (but I don't think the difference is as extreme as people are making it out to be. Hell, last night on a 23-minute ITF, one of us got 7 shards!), but I have three of just about every component on all my active 50s. I rarely have to craft anything out of shards. And I don't do this out of planning out what each toon needs. I just run it ALL, quickly, and I end up with what I need when I need it.
Run slow if you want to go slow, but saying that there is no reason to run quickly is missing the point. |
Also the mobs are mostly immune to knockback and like to melee, which means they get nice and bunched up for AoEs and fulcrum shifts. Shards and purple drops occur more often on Speed ITFs over any other speed TF.
Making it the WST will be icing on the cake.
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God yes. I've gotten four purple drops, and all have been during the ITF. Totally looking forward to it.
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Originally Posted by PumBumbler
Making it the WST will be icing on the cake.
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De minimis non curat Lex Luthor.
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And for those who don't, it's not like the very rare boosts are even worth the effort. I don't have the very rare boost on any character and I don't plan on 'grinding' for them, I'll get them when I get them.
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Originally Posted by UberGuy
Consider this: some of us have more than enough shards for crafting our goodies.
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[U][URL="http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=251594"][/URL][/U]
I am predicting that the Apex, TM2 and ITF WSTs will get me significant progress on my badger towards the "50 WSTs you didn't need to be on" badge.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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Fo' sho. I can't wait to run a ton of Apexs this week. What a great TF, and now with spectacular WST rewards. Sign me up.
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Originally Posted by UberGuy
I am predicting that the Apex, TM2 and ITF WSTs will get me significant progress on my badger towards the "50 WSTs you didn't need to be on" badge.
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Never argue with stupid people. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
@vanda1 and @nakoa2
Enemies kill-stealing my other enemies. What has the world come to...