How to Prepare for Future Content
By
Arilou,
Posted on: 2011-02-12 20:58 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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Warning: Is about to engage in hyperbole|
Originally Posted by Toony
No, I never changed my build for new content or studies spread sheets or read up on strategies.
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So what you want is to be able to walk into a mish, press the 'r' button to run forward with an macro on auto that lets you target next enemy and cue up an attack?
/hyperbole
In all seriousness you absolutely learn new strategies in this game, and tailor your play style around beating up on new enemies. Otherwise you would have a far more difficult time. You focus on the sapper if you're fighting Malta. You beat down the Ring Mistresses and MI's if you're fighting Carnies. Observers if you're fighting Rularru. Medics if you're fighting Cimerorans, Gaurdians and Comm officers if you're fighting Rikti. All of that is tailoring play style to enemy, so it's not likely that you don't do it. And if you don't then you deserve to have a more difficult time than people who do.
The biggest problem with all of this is this: on the Apex runs I've been on, it actually matters more than someone have the Incarnate slot than any IO'd build. On a team IO's matter, but team work matters ten times more.
"Be a beacon?"
Blue Mourning: lvl. 50 Katana/DA
Bree the Barricade: lvl 50 Stone/Axe
Last Chance for Eden: lvl 50 Fire/Kin
Myra the Grey: lvl 50 Bots/Traps
1 Minute to Midnight lvl 50 Spines/DA
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Clipping and quoting this for emphasis. It does not matter how pimped you build is with IOs. You can have a SO char with the incarnate. If you have a slotted brain you can do fine cause you know how you character and build works.|
Originally Posted by Blue_Mourning
The biggest problem with all of this is this: on the Apex runs I've been on, it actually matters more than someone have the Incarnate slot than any IO'd build. On a team IO's matter, but team work matters ten times more.
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Also with everyone working as a team, will always clean house or be easier than a team with one or two (or whole team) that will not work together.
What to bring for the new content?
A really BIG gun.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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What is a Mastermind? |
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
Unfortunately, nothing player-based will fix Masterminds pets to stop them spacking out and acting like Captain McDerpyPants, running up and attempting to brawl with a War Walker. Or from getting mown down by Clockwork AoE -Def spam.
Currently messing around with more macros and even more stringent control of the flipping blighters, but Id much prefer someone to actually FIX the little pissants... |
Virtue: @Santorican
Dark/Shield Build Thread
When new content is introduced there will always be a delay before the majority of the playerbase is able to complete it in a PuG environment.
Its all well and good saying "teams give up on the Apex and Tin Mage" but do you know waht their compliment was? How the team was arranged and whether they were even alpha'd.
Now if I look at the STF when it came out, it took me like 3 months to get a successful team through, that was with some of the more experienced unionite players, and my SG who were all very compotent players, but it just took a while to get down.
Flashback to last week, and I ran the thing so many times I lost count including on my then previous only level 50, and not a problem, even thew quickest arranged PuGs where I recognised few global names.
The same when Khan was put out, my first attempt was an utter failure.
It will be the same as this, people will fail alot, probably more because theres so many involved. But eventually the critical mass of experience vs new will pass, and people will start passing it.
Taking steps to prepare for the higher level enemies is a good thing, but in general, its just gonna be a time thing.
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Originally Posted by VoodooGirl
[*]Watching out for the Spinning Disco Portal of D00M!*
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Meanwhile, the new content on Test was beaten 4 times (that I know of; maybe more) in the first 3 days. I don't think we have anything to worry about.
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Originally Posted by Mega_Jamie
Now if I look at the STF when it came out, it took me like 3 months to get a successful team through, that was with some of the more experienced unionite players, and my SG who were all very compotent players, but it just took a while to get down.
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This is what 3700 heroes in a single zone looks like.
Thanks to @EnsonsDeath for the GVE code that made me VIP again!
Apex/Tin Mage is perfectly doable with just SO's (or generic IO's) It's a bit more annoying, but it's not a real problem assuming people know what they're doing have at least slightly team-oriented builds (inherent stamina has helped a lot with this, since a lot of people pick up leadership powers, which are very helpful)
"Men strunt �r strunt och snus �r snus
om ock i gyllne dosor.
Och rosor i ett sprucket krus
�r st�ndigt alltid rosor."
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Most likely because, casuals don't bother with test.|
Originally Posted by Leandro
Meanwhile, the new content on Test was beaten 4 times (that I know of; maybe more) in the first 3 days. I don't think we have anything to worry about.
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ITF was beaten early in Beta, Etc etc.
Many of those on test/beta are hardcore players with tweaked out toons.
I know because you and I are two of them... >.>
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They could just cheat them like other MMOs do. Give them a ridiculous level of AE evasion if they aren't being specifically targetted with them. It's suboptimal [and would seriously change the mechanics of Tankerminding], and I think the specific mechanics of this game would make it far too much of a bullet buff, but it is an 'easy' solution [that just carries a lot of baggage]. Still wouldn't solve the "WRAA MELEE SLAM TIME", but may help.
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Originally Posted by Schismatrix
The Devs have been metaphorically bashing their heads against brick walls for years trying to improve pet AI. They've had some incremental (and slightly more than incremental) successes doing so over the years, but i don't expect a dramatic increase in pet AI "intelligence" any time in the near future.
Maybe they'll come up with some other way of making pets more effective against higher conning enemies. At least the pets already inherit the level shift. That's a nice start. |
Let's Dance!
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That's very useful to know. It also helps hammer GuyPerfect's point home: Incarnate Content Mobs (InCoM, for short! Like InCoMpetent!) have the level advantage on this one. It's preparation and smart play that pays dividends, now. Honestly, that doesn't really sound counterintuitive, disingenuous, or even out of line with the rest of the game's design, so I'm a little surprised there're complaints.
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Originally Posted by Chaos Creator
Good stuff GuyPerfect. With inherent fitness lots of people are taking tactics and/or assault. These also help to future proof your build. Then there is the incarnate cap to keep in mind. For incarnate content the new soft cap is 59% defense.
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Yes, because Masterminds need to suffer even more from the Incarnate stuff.|
Originally Posted by reiella
They could just cheat them like other MMOs do. Give them a ridiculous level of AE evasion if they aren't being specifically targetted with them. It's suboptimal [and would seriously change the mechanics of Tankerminding], and I think the specific mechanics of this game would make it far too much of a bullet buff, but it is an 'easy' solution [that just carries a lot of baggage]. Still wouldn't solve the "WRAA MELEE SLAM TIME", but may help.
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Oh, wait, No. Hell freaking NO.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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The problem really is that while general survivability goes up, that's not true of MM pets.
"Men strunt �r strunt och snus �r snus
om ock i gyllne dosor.
Och rosor i ett sprucket krus
�r st�ndigt alltid rosor."
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It wouldn't be half so bad if the little bleeders didnt insist on running into melee with a War Walker. It's often not even the Walkers attacks that are the problem; I've lost more pets to the damn thing doing damage when it falls over then to their actual attacks.|
Originally Posted by Arilou
The problem really is that while general survivability goes up, that's not true of MM pets.
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Oh, and Battle Maiden's patches of doom. I spent more time running around than I did fighting in that final fight...
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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Every time someone complains about having to figure out new content I'm reminded of whenever a super team gets a new foe and gets wiped a few times and then goes "We've learned what's going on this is how we should use our abilities" and suddenly the blood bath is turned around and some subplot happens and then Robin and Starfire kiss.
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I actually came in to say exactly this.|
Originally Posted by Steelclaw
The Steelclaw Guide to Preparing for Future Content:
1) Revamp Spreadsheets. 2) Delete Characters. |
How to Prepare for Future Content... unless you're Steelclaw.
Just a note on the whole "need IOs to be able to do stuff" sentiment. I rolled a 3 characters, a Traps/DP, a Warshade, and a Necro/Dark. Each of these is completely unslotted. Traps/DP has TF commander, saved the world and has been on numerous speed STFs, LGTF, ITF, and when I feel like getting back to that character (currently working on a Dark/Fire tank) I'll do the Incarnate stuff. The warshade is lvl 46, and is working just fine without an uber build, and I keep planning to slot the Necro/Dark, but then I play him and forget he needs it.
The player is more important than the build. The build makes things easier, but thats just because you add potency to what you already use. So I have no empathy for people who say "I cant do that it's too hard and I want to use just SO's". It's just not true, your either lying or have no clue what your talking about. May sound harsh, but it's true.
Taking my Traps onto the BAF, It was player error that caused us to fail, not the lack of any super build. We got through the first part no problem, then didn't coordinate with Nightstar. The second group I tried with were coordinated and got to siege, but lost their cool when the puller got lost and couldn't find Siege.
Teamwork, and not playing like an idiot trumps purple builds. I'd take an unslotted stalker who knows what their doing before I take an idiot who coppied Dechs Dark/Fire tank build any day.
Murphys Military Law
#23. Teamwork is essential; it gives the enemy other people to shoot at.
#46. If you can't remember, the Claymore is pointed towards you.
#54. Killing for peace is like screwing for virginity.
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Knowledge is key. |
Originally Posted by MunkiLord
Or you could simply learn about game mechanics. Knowledge is much more important than any of those things.
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If you ask pretty much anyone if soloing a MoLRSF with a Mind Dom is difficult, I'm sure they would say yes. If you ask me, I would honestly say it wasn't difficult at all (for me) and I completed it the first try. Do you wanna know why it wasn't difficult? Yes, being knowledgeable about the TF and game mechanics made it easy. Sure, having an uber build was a necessity, but that was more about the game mechanics requiring one.
Now, I don't expect anyone to be able to complete some things that I have, not by a long shot. All I'm saying is that if you take even just a little time to understand how things in the game works, even if it's minor, it can go a long way and make tasks that much easier. It's not the devs fault if you refuse not to think and learn new things.
[U][URL="http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=251594"][/URL][/U]
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I disagree with you on this one, Golden_Girl
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Originally Posted by bAss_ackwards
I hope people aren't confusing me with another person again.
It's happened before with stuff like the Imperious, Apex, and Tin Mage TF. People will understand, exploit, and conquer the new content as they have in the past. |
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...dude, what ails you? Are you really talking about how the sky is falling and crushing everyone's daisies because the developers are focusing on a tough endgame for the time being?|
Originally Posted by Lycaeus
That's fine. But it's a wound caused by items that were knowingly designed by the devs knowing that some of their players would run into it and get hurt.
Presumably, they are betting that enough players will shrug it off as a flesh wound, stand up again, and learn how to clamber around the obstacle. Now the manner in which they encourage and slowly offer help and assistance for those who are having trouble to get around it, will affect the number of players who would put up with the obstacle being there in the first place. Too abruptly, too dismissively, and one is liable to get players who decide that the meadow they originally picked to play in, is now full of falling boulders from the sky getting in their way, and deciding to head off to greener pastures. |
Look, man, be the witness of your own thoughts, so to speak. You're not in a rational mood when discussing this stuff. You didn't even understand what bAss was saying about self-inflicted wounds: nobody but you can choose whether or not to participate in the newest content.
61866 - A Series of Unfortunate Kidnappings - More than a coincidence?
2260 - The Burning of Hearts - A green-eyed monster holds the match.
379248 - The Spider Without Fangs - NEW - Some lessons learned (more or less.)
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Well fine, go ahead and be the Disagree Desperado. |
Originally Posted by Silverado
I disagree with you on this one, Golden_Girl
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Remember kids, crack is whack!
Samuel_Tow: Your avatar is... I think I like it
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You take that back! |
Originally Posted by LISAR
Every time someone complains about having to figure out new content I'm reminded of whenever a super team gets a new foe and gets wiped a few times and then goes "We've learned what's going on this is how we should use our abilities" and suddenly the blood bath is turned around and some subplot happens and then Robin and Starfire kiss.
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When I was growing up, I was always told that knowing is only half the battle.|
Originally Posted by Fiery-Enforcer
Knowledge is key.
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Originally Posted by Lycaeus
And what would you advise players who cannot or will not or choose not to prepare for this future content?
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Originally Posted by Lycaeus
If you -just- tried, you can do it, really! Here I'll take you!...Without acknowledging that some people have no interest in getting better at it, period.
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Or put another way, just because you don't like the concept of end-game raid-type systems, I think it's extremely prejudicial to make up your mind without even trying it that you're going to hate our developer's implementation of an end-game raid-type system and that it is so irredeemably bad that there's literally nothing in it that could change your mind.
But hey, it's your mind, so you can make it up whenever and however you want. I just hope that you realize that the devs aren't catering specifically to you, a mistaken assumption I've seen propagated lately. They are designing the game with the goal of being the most fun for the most people, and from what I've seen in terms of server load and activity lately, they're doing a really good job of it. You have to understand that if they worked under the notion that they can't do anything that someone might not care for, they'd be paralyzed and never able to release anything else.
Personally, I'm always excited to get new content, even knowing that eventually, I might grow bored or disillusioned with some of it. I'm not a huge fan of end-game raid-type systems myself, but I don't hate it, and I trust our devs to come up with something fun and compelling to play. My only regret is that I had back surgery three weeks ago and haven't really been physically able to play as much as I want to, so my main focus for "preparing for future content" right now is to get better.
We've been saving Paragon City for eight and a half years. It's time to do it one more time.
(If you love this game as much as I do, please read that post.)
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That was the first thing that came to mind when I read the thread title, you deleting toons. I think I spend too much time here. |
Originally Posted by Steelclaw
The Steelclaw Guide to Preparing for Future Content:
1) Revamp Spreadsheets. 2) Delete Characters. |
Replace "future content" with "fighting level 54 enemies" and this thread becomes a lot more grounded.
For the longest time, this game was balanced against even level enemies, where enemy powers and mission design were used to provide quote-unquote "challenge." Everyone built for what the game was balanced around. Not everyone will rebuild for the poor man's version of challenge, otherwise known as "the computer is a cheating *******."
Historically, jacking up enemy stats and giving them palette swaps has been just about the cheapest, least inspiring method of adding fake difficulty, just trailing behind "supposed to lose" fights.
I will say one thing, though - it's becoming quite obvious that a completely different development team is working on the Incarnate system.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Real Advice:
Farm moar shards!
srsly
You'll be glad you did.
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