Want a Notice of the Well solo? That'll be...


Adeon Hawkwood

 

Posted

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Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
There was also the Hamidon enhancement thread, the loot and marketeering threads surrounding I9 (anyone remember the "Cornering the market for Freebird" thread? Kinda funny now), the name purge threads, the market purge threads, and of course the I13 PvP threads.


I have survived your predecessors, and I will survive you.
Yeah, but ED actually destroyed the forums. Now *that* was an epic fail on the Devs' part, not seeing that fiasco coming. We even told them it was going to and they still did it.


The Alt Alphabet ~ OPC: Other People's Characters ~ Terrific Screenshots of Cool ~ Superhero Fiction

 

Posted

Where did this come from, Test or Beta?


My Lego Models http://www.flickr.com/photos/30369639@N07/ lemur lad: God you can't be that stupid... I'm on at the same time as you for once, and not 20 minutes into it you give me something worth petitioning?
Lady-Dee: Hey my fat keeps me warm in the winter and shady in the summer.

 

Posted

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Originally Posted by Ironik View Post
Sure they can. Make it a little less steep of an incline for soloers.

As I just posted, I can make about 1 million Influence an hour. So that's 100 hours to earn the money to buy one of these Notice dealies, whatever they are. I'm not 15 without a life outside school, I can't play 60 hours a week. Some weeks I'm lucky to get 3 hours. That level 50 character I just posted pictures of has 295 hours on patrol as of 1 minute ago.
So if you play an hour a day you'll have it in about three months.* That sounds pretty reasonable.

* Assuming you don't get any good drops in that time, which seems unlikely. Chances are you'd get a purple, or at least one of the good rare recipes, and that'd cut into your time considerably.


"Men strunt �r strunt och snus �r snus
om ock i gyllne dosor.
Och rosor i ett sprucket krus
�r st�ndigt alltid rosor."

 

Posted

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Originally Posted by Ironik View Post
As I just posted, I can make about 1 million Influence an hour.
I can make a lot more than that in an hour. At 10 million an hour (conservative estimate) you can have the Inf for it in 10 hours, or about 3 days playing 3 hours a day. Maybe you can't put that much time into playing in one week, but that just means it takes you 2 weeks, or 3 weeks, instead. This is an end-game, long-term reward system, anyway.


 

Posted

I would strongly suggest removing the 40 shard cost, and leaving the rest as is.


"I do so love taking a nice, well thought out character and putting them through hell. It's like tossing a Faberge Egg onto the stage during a Gallagher concert." - me

@Palador / @Rabid Unicorn

 

Posted

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Originally Posted by Rabid_Metroid View Post
I would strongly suggest removing the 40 shard cost, and leaving the rest as is.
I wouldn't actually disagree with that, but in that case I'd double or triple the influence cost.


"Men strunt �r strunt och snus �r snus
om ock i gyllne dosor.
Och rosor i ett sprucket krus
�r st�ndigt alltid rosor."

 

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Originally Posted by Arilou View Post
I wouldn't actually disagree with that, but in that case I'd double or triple the influence cost.
500 million is my suggestion.


 

Posted

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Originally Posted by Arilou View Post
I wouldn't actually disagree with that, but in that case I'd double or triple the influence cost.
I think something like the following would be more appropriate:

<those same various incarnate salvage pieces>
20 or 25 shards
250 million Inf

That would bring the total amount of shards needed down to 68 or 73, which is still enough to incentivize the WTF, I think.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironik View Post
Yeah, but ED actually destroyed the forums. Now *that* was an epic fail on the Devs' part, not seeing that fiasco coming. We even told them it was going to and they still did it.
Sometimes you just have to let the children cry before they realize that it ain't so bad, after all.


 

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Originally Posted by Vanden View Post
They never said that everyone was going to be able to make all the abilities.
You're wrong.
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Originally Posted by Second Measure View Post
In issue 20, you will be able to craft all abilities from the Incarnate trees that are available via Incarnate Trials using Incarnate Shards and some INF.
And Black Scorpion has already verified that Incarnate Trials are an alternative to the WST.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironik View Post
Sure they can. Make it a little less steep of an incline for soloers.

As I just posted, I can make about 1 million Influence an hour. So that's 100 hours to earn the money to buy one of these Notice dealies, whatever they are. I'm not 15 without a life outside school, I can't play 60 hours a week. Some weeks I'm lucky to get 3 hours. That level 50 character I just posted pictures of has 295 hours on patrol as of 1 minute ago.
Honestly, I don't think its reasonable to balance medium and long-term pursuit rewards around a three hour a week activity rate. I think the proper normalization is to look at average time to 50, and scale Incarnate earning activity in terms of either fractions of or multiples of that time, regardless of how many hours a week an individual player plays. That way, the time it will take to earn Incarnate abilities will be comparable (meaning: actually comparable to, not equal to) something else they are already familiar with and probably have made peace with. If we say that the average player takes, say, 200-250 hours to level 50, and we then say that some particular Incarnate task (I'm not specifically picking any one in particular) takes 100 hours because its intended to take about half the time it took to level from one to 50, then if some players play 50 hours a week they'll get it in two weeks. If another player plays 1 hour a week, it will take them two years. But they also took four years to get to fifty, and that's just the way it goes.

Just for a data point I think to within an order of magnitude the effort to unlock an Incarnate slot should be somewhere around the amount of time it takes to earn a new power at the high levels: i.e. about three levels in the high 40s. So say three times the time it takes to get from 49 to 50. If it takes the average player ten hours to get from 49 to 50, then 30 hours to unlock one Incarnate slot, plus or minus, would not be out of bounds. Or to be more precise, 30 hours to unlock, and then craft one common ability within that slot, would "feel" right to me if it took about 30 hours on average. The other slots would then take some multiple of that time.

Unlocking all of the Incarnate system from Alpha to Omega would be the rough equivalent of earning thirty levels, not ten, at the same or higher costs as level 49 to 50.

I'm sure other people have different ideas, but those are the numbers I feel most comfortable guestimating, with large margins for error, as appropriate for the Incarnate system, given what I know about its intentions. Most of which is deduced from its structure, not from conversations with the devs. Positron has not shared his insight into whether I'm wildly right or wildly wrong about the Incarnate system intent to this point. Some sort of hint would be nice at some point, but they are pretty busy right now and I'm not going to bother them with that particular question.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arilou View Post
So if you play an hour a day you'll have it in about three months.* That sounds pretty reasonable.

* Assuming you don't get any good drops in that time, which seems unlikely. Chances are you'd get a purple, or at least one of the good rare recipes, and that'd cut into your time considerably.
I just got a purple about a week ago. I think that was my 6th or 7th one ever.

That hour I posted I earned:

Sleep Duration 41,115k @ WW
Snare Duration 32,005k @ WW
Endurance Reduction 61,500k @ WW
Recharge Reduction 64k @ WW
Hold Duration 41,115k @ WW

Doctored Wounds End/Heal 500k @ WW
Perplex Confuse/recharge 0 @ WW, 5k @ store

Temp Power: Plasmatic Taser 0 @ WW, 1k @ store

5 pieces of salvage, all of them common, no bidders. 4 enhancements, about 20k each. This is a typical haul, with the Doctored Wounds being an exception. I'm much more used to getting things similar to the Perplex that are worth more at the store and then only for a few thousand.

So that's around 850k Influence more. Okay, total take is 1.85 million per hour.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomic_Woman View Post
I can make a lot more than that in an hour. At 10 million an hour (conservative estimate) you can have the Inf for it in 10 hours, or about 3 days playing 3 hours a day. Maybe you can't put that much time into playing in one week, but that just means it takes you 2 weeks, or 3 weeks, instead. This is an end-game, long-term reward system, anyway.
That 1 million an hour is me playing at a brisk pace the way I prefer to, including dropping a radio mission for 35k finish bonus. There's no way I'm going to earn 10 million an hour without it being a grind. Hell, there's no way I can earn 10 million an hour solo period, and I rather doubt anyone else can, either. If I'm playing missions that are new to me or I've only played once before, I slow down and read the text, because that's the whole *point* of the game, not grinding like a gerbil on a wheel and blowing past the story.

I'm a casual gamer and you're a power gamer. I'm also unlucky when it comes to drops, always have been. For instance, I never got one of the cool costume drops until after the Devs significantly increased the drop rate. By that time they were no longer going for 100 to 200 million but rather 10 or 20 k. Now most of them have zero bidders. Only Draconic Wings and Rocket Boots have bidders, at 50 and 120 k respectively. I've never gotten Rocket Boots and one Draconic Wings. Lots of Piston Boots, though, for nothing.


The Alt Alphabet ~ OPC: Other People's Characters ~ Terrific Screenshots of Cool ~ Superhero Fiction

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
Honestly, I don't think its reasonable to balance medium and long-term pursuit rewards around a three hour a week activity rate. I think the proper normalization is to look at average time to 50, and scale Incarnate earning activity in terms of either fractions of or multiples of that time, regardless of how many hours a week an individual player plays. That way, the time it will take to earn Incarnate abilities will be comparable (meaning: actually comparable to, not equal to) something else they are already familiar with and probably have made peace with. If we say that the average player takes, say, 200-250 hours to level 50, and we then say that some particular Incarnate task (I'm not specifically picking any one in particular) takes 100 hours because its intended to take about half the time it took to level from one to 50, then if some players play 50 hours a week they'll get it in two weeks. If another player plays 1 hour a week, it will take them two years. But they also took four years to get to fifty, and that's just the way it goes.
I don't have a problem with that in and of itself, except that we're not looking at soloers in a vacuum but compared against people who have computers capable of teaming and earning these same things in under an hour.

Do you really see 100 hours solo as equal to 1 hour teamed?

I used to play with a bunch of parents who rarely had an entire hour to play at one go. The times they did were few and far between, on the order of once a month when their spouses had the kids, so that's another group of people who ought to be considered. To a one, they all left because of the leveling grind. (In fact, one asked me recently if that had been fixed. I assured him it had, but he hasn't returned to the game.)


The Alt Alphabet ~ OPC: Other People's Characters ~ Terrific Screenshots of Cool ~ Superhero Fiction

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomic_Woman View Post
I can make a lot more than that in an hour. At 10 million an hour (conservative estimate) you can have the Inf for it in 10 hours, or about 3 days playing 3 hours a day.
10 million an hour? I've never had a character make that. Then again, I don't farm. And I think I've had one purple drop in the last few months. I think the last time someone had an "AT earnings/hour," my 50s went between 600k to 1.1mil or so.

I foresee... AE farming, and rare salvage dropping dramatically in price (again. See also monkies.)


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomic_Woman View Post
I think something like the following would be more appropriate:

<those same various incarnate salvage pieces>
20 or 25 shards
250 million Inf

That would bring the total amount of shards needed down to 68 or 73, which is still enough to incentivize the WTF, I think.
WTF indeed. That guarantees I'd never get it.


The Alt Alphabet ~ OPC: Other People's Characters ~ Terrific Screenshots of Cool ~ Superhero Fiction

 

Posted

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Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill View Post
10 million an hour? I've never had a character make that. Then again, I don't farm. And I think I've had one purple drop in the last few months.

I foresee... AE farming, and rare salvage dropping dramatically in price (again. See also monkies.)
Yeah, I'm going to have to resort to farming to be at all competitive.


The Alt Alphabet ~ OPC: Other People's Characters ~ Terrific Screenshots of Cool ~ Superhero Fiction

 

Posted

The market is more efficient than farming.


 

Posted

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Originally Posted by Eiko-chan View Post
And Black Scorpion has already verified that Incarnate Trials are an alternative to the WST.
That's not what he meant. He meant, using only shards and inf, it would be possible to craft every incarnate power. He did not say it would necessarily be an attractive option. He did not say every player would be likely to do it.


Issue 16 made me feel like this.
Warning: This poster likes to play Devil's Advocate.

 

Posted

Depending on the specific recipe, a purple will sell on the auction house for between 20 (that's the cheapest price i've seen for a purple recipe, which is not to say it is the cheapest price anyone has wrangled out of one) to hundreds of millions.

Even the Soulbound Allegience (generally the cheapest) sell for 20-30 million.

A level 50 common recipe will sell for roughly 100,000 (give or take a bit) from a vendor.

Doctored Wounds seeems to sell for 1-5 million or so (but I've seen people pay up to 15 million for them) some other yellows like Crushing Blow seems to go in a similar price-range.

Damage procs seem to sell for 10-20 milion (Cloud Senses: Chance for Negative Damage is for some reason really expensive and usually goes for like 40 million)

Some of the really good procs (Miracle + recovery, Numina +regen/recovery) sell for 40-80 million.

Simply by playing casually chances are you'll get at least one of these things.

EDIT: Or you can spend 30 minutes four days in a row to get two alignment merits, buy a LOTG 7.5% recharge, and sell it for 150 milion.


"Men strunt �r strunt och snus �r snus
om ock i gyllne dosor.
Och rosor i ett sprucket krus
�r st�ndigt alltid rosor."

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill View Post
10 million an hour? I've never had a character make that. Then again, I don't farm. And I think I've had one purple drop in the last few months.
Barring a lucky drop, which in aggregate doesn't raise the figure very much, I probably get between 3-5 million a mission, and it takes me about an hour to do most missions. And I do farm, on x8.

EDIT: I also get about 1 shard a mission; as I admitted many pages ago, I will definitely reach the influence price before I'm even in sight of the shard price.


 

Posted

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Originally Posted by EvilGeko View Post
Serious question. Do you think they should just remove the second option? Would some option that's doable solo be better than no option. I'm not trying to set up a false dilemma. I recognize that the devs have set the bar very, very high. Perhaps too high. But assuming they aren't willing to budge, do you truly believe that this is worse than nothing?
Honestly? It feels like the guy who knows he's got you over a barrel and gouges you just because he can.

It's not helpful and frankly most of the people who like it, like it because they don't want it to be helpful. And please, let's not pretend that's not the case.

Rationally, it's obviously just a starting point. But it does come off as a kind of "Take That, soloers!"

Moderator05's comments in locking the Soloability and End Game thread were not helpful either, IMHO.


 

Posted

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Originally Posted by Vanden View Post
That's not what he meant. He meant, using only shards and inf, it would be possible to craft every incarnate power. He did not say it would necessarily be an attractive option. He did not say every player would be likely to do it.
Preface: I do not believe this is actually the case. I believe Vanden is extremely wrong about this.

However, if you're right, Vanden, then we're looking at a situation of the Devs more or less actively trolling their solo players. Do you really think that is healthy behaviour for a game?


 

Posted

Has something led you to believe that the Notice recipe is not what he was talking about?

I don't believe that giving the finger to soloers is a good thing, but I also don't think that's what they're doing.


Issue 16 made me feel like this.
Warning: This poster likes to play Devil's Advocate.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eiko-chan View Post
Preface: I do not believe this is actually the case. I believe Vanden is extremely wrong about this.

However, if you're right, Vanden, then we're looking at a situation of the Devs more or less actively trolling their solo players. Do you really think that is healthy behaviour for a game?
BS quite openly stated that teaming was going to be given preferential treatment.

As said, I'd actually prefer it if they lowered the shard-cost and upped the inf-cost, but you have your soloable path.


"Men strunt �r strunt och snus �r snus
om ock i gyllne dosor.
Och rosor i ett sprucket krus
�r st�ndigt alltid rosor."