Wishes for Modifications in Gravity Control...
By
Carnifax_NA,
Posted on: 2011-02-09 17:34 in Dominators
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Heh, nice idea. I liked it even when I suggested it back in this thread and proposed a mini-version for a new phasing armor set. |
Originally Posted by Oathbound
Dimension Shift(and Blackhole in Dark Miasma)
Convert it from a Target AoE into a Location AoE patch such as Quicksand or Tar Patch. Have it tick a short duration phase, say 0.75slong, every 0.5s, which affects BOTH enemies AND allies within it's radius (but only immobilizes foes) so that if you don't want to deal with them right away you just stay out of the phase and it works just like it does now, but if you WANT to interact with the mobs you can enter the phase field and attack them like normal. If it proves a bit too much heat for you, you can just get out of the patch and be safe from the phased mobs. Since the immobilize doesn't protect from knockback or teleport, an ally could also go into the phase field, target a phased mob and then KB/TP/Worhole them out of the field to be dealt with individually. Or on the flip side, if you don't manage to get all the mobs in the field when you first cast it, you can KB/TP/Wormhole them into the field after it's set up. Also rename it Dimensional Breach or Dimensional Rift, since Dimension Shift is more of an Action, while the power's now more of a Thing. |
Just putting the thread there so anyone can take a look back and read more posts on the subject (and maybe plug a type of phase armor type powerset for melees
)
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Originally Posted by DarkCurrent
Replace Dim Shift with something akin to your Gravity Sink (called Gravity Well) idea and all's right in the world with gravity control.
Screw the cottage. If the vast majority of people skip a power like Dim Shift (and they do), then it needs to go. I would defy anyone who does use DS to state they'd prefer keeping it over something new like this Gravity Well. Free respecs could be granted to all gravity control character upon the power's replacement. Majority are happy and minority are compensated. |
They don't even need to replace the power, they can just add abother one so people can choose
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I rolled my grav after the fold space thing so I don't know this from experience, but I believe there was another "bonus" there. Singularity used to be able to phase shift enemies (and may still accept phase enhancements.) Like Dark Servant being able to scare enemies into fleeing wildly, this was eventually removed as the AI randomly removing things from the fight was...annoying at times.
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Originally Posted by Oathbound
More than just those things, the activation times for Crush and Gravity Distortion used to be MUCH longer (3.1 and 3.2 seconds respectively). This is because activation times weren't factored into power balance at the start of the game.
In fact Singularity apparently STILL uses the much longer activation times. So yes, as sad as it is, Gravity used to be MUCH worse than it currently is. |
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Ya know, considering the subject matter I know I read that thread (or at least read it up to a point). It might be where I got the idea, but I dunno.|
Originally Posted by Leo_G
Heh, nice idea. I liked it even when I suggested it back in this thread and proposed a mini-version for a new phasing armor set.
Just putting the thread there so anyone can take a look back and read more posts on the subject (and maybe plug a type of phase armor type powerset for melees ) |
It was something that popped into my head a while back when I was designing imaginary, Gravity themed sets for every set type (Ranged/Melee/Support/etc).
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Originally Posted by Elaith
I rolled my grav after the fold space thing so I don't know this from experience, but I believe there was another "bonus" there. Singularity used to be able to phase shift enemies (and may still accept phase enhancements.) Like Dark Servant being able to scare enemies into fleeing wildly, this was eventually removed as the AI randomly removing things from the fight was...annoying at times.
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@Oathbound & @Oathbound Too
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When I started reading this thread and you put up that idea, I thought you actually *did* get the idea from me. If you look in that phantom aura armor set thread and scroll down, there's a guy with the exact same avatar as you. But you're not Rockpirate, are you? |
Originally Posted by Oathbound
Ya know, considering the subject matter I know I read that thread (or at least read it up to a point). It might be where I got the idea, but I dunno.
It was something that popped into my head a while back when I was designing imaginary, Gravity themed sets for every set type (Ranged/Melee/Support/etc). |
Dimension Shift power is really pain the !@#$ to use. My 3rd Gravity dom is lvl 49 now. I enjoy Wormhole a lot (20' radius would be nice) but I still can't stand how Dimension Shift works.
DS just causes so much confusion. Years ago phased out mobs would just stand there but now they are attacking even though they are not doing any damage. I don't know how many times my teammates say like "WTF is going on". I spend more time explaining to them than trying to enjoy the phased outs.
I think aoe phase shift in general is just poor. Single Cage is fine.
If they don't want to break the cottage rule, they should at least add strong -Regen in it because without it, the mobs eventually have a "net gain" from it after 30s (for example, bosses regenerate back health).
If they want to break cottage rule, I would prefer seeing a Reverse effect of Ice Patch where you cast a patch on the ground and the mobs have a chance to get Knocked Up and the patch causes -fly/-jump.
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
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I think it would be harder to add tech to allow multple choice powers myself.| They don't even need to replace the power, they can just add abother one so people can choose |
I love the idea of an AoE leviate.
I don't suffer from altitis, I enjoy every minute of it.
Thank you Devs & Community people for a great game.
So sad to be ending ):
That tech actually already exists. We know they can already have two powers open up in the same set at the same level - there are a number of examples in the primary sets of both peacebringers and warshades. The only really interesting bit is the part that would make the two powers mutually exclusive, but that tech also already exists - crab spider venom and frag grenades are mutually exclusive with the wolf spider gun versions.
@MuonNeutrino
Student, Gamer, Altaholic, and future Astronomer.
This is what it means to be a tank!
Personally...off top of my head...a good replacement for the pretty much universally hated DS could be something along the lines of Tar Patch and still be made to fit thematically with the set.
Increase Gravity
This power allows you to create an area of intense gravity, weighing down foes that try to pass through it. Targets will be slowed, unable to fly or jump while in its area of effect. Also, because the gravity is so heavy, your foes will not be able to react as quickly as they normally would, effectively decreasing their defense.
-Runspeed, -jump, -fly, -def to all
This could either be as a location aoe (click and stick like TP, OS Arrow, etc.) or as a targeted AoE.
EDIT: After i made this post and went to bed...it dawned on me...this is pretty much a gravity equivalent of earth's quicksand...which really isn't a bad thing.
RaikenX is currently seeking new quotes to add to his signature.
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Originally Posted by Smiling_Joe
::looks at RaikenX's signature::
Something funny. |
I love my Grav, make no mistake, but I do agree that it underperforms in control and really doesn't make up the difference in damage. Three changes I would suggest:
1) Shorter animation for propel. Yes, it's an awesome power, but it's just too long.
2) Increase Wormhole radius to match the other control AOE stuns, ie: 25 yards.
3) Replace Dimension Shift with a targeted AOE knockdown, sort of an AOE lift. Give it enough range and a fast animation so it can put mobs off balance to mitigate the alpha while you follow up with Wormhole.
Break the cottage rule... alot.
Propel is one of my most favourite powers in this game, but its too slot, and serves little purpose for dominators, and tbh, theres stuff for controllers that work out better too.
But its so awesome!
Propel > decrease activation / animation time... I would even settle for being able to act after the item is summoned and having it as a delayed damage (as a counter to spectral wounds which is upfront damage that gets healed back), however it needs a bit more...
so make it a single target stun too? or even AoE and have the items be bigger.
Wormhole > Remove knockback, increase TP magnitude either by making it enhanceable or just generally, its a pain to leave a boss behind.
Lift > 2 damage powers are not necessary, and really too much soft control already.
Dimension Shift > Someone posted an idea about a "Static Field-esque" placeable pseduopet that causes immob and intangeable on enemies within it. Immob had no -kb protection so enemies could be pushed out of it when you wanted to deal with them. That was brilliant.
In general, Speed up the set, every effect is too slow. I love the concept, but just can't force myself to push through it. I've got one at 34 and one at 47 on trollers and its been a tough slog. And I agree that the early game is where the most drop outs probably occur.
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Originally Posted by VoodooGirl
[*]Watching out for the Spinning Disco Portal of D00M!*
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Oh yeah, I completely forgot about Propel. It is a garbage power on dominator because it is too slow for the damage. It's one of those powers that work well with Troller but not with Dominator. It just looks neat.
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
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I dunno...i think i may actually have a use for this one. For 6-slotting Kinetic Crash for another 3 points of KB protection and 7.5% global recharge. That's my plan anyway.
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Originally Posted by Jibikao
Oh yeah, I completely forgot about Propel. It is a garbage power on dominator because it is too slow for the damage. It's one of those powers that work well with Troller but not with Dominator. It just looks neat.
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Originally Posted by Smiling_Joe
::looks at RaikenX's signature::
Something funny. |
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Actually yes that is/was me.|
Originally Posted by Leo_G
When I started reading this thread and you put up that idea, I thought you actually *did* get the idea from me. If you look in that phantom aura armor set thread and scroll down, there's a guy with the exact same avatar as you. But you're not Rockpirate, are you?
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I was using a friend's account while mine was having, erm... issues. (hmm, I dunno if I should even say that where NCSoft employees can read it)
So there ya go.
@Oathbound & @Oathbound Too
I kinda think of Propel as an uninterruptible snipe. Shorter range, of course, but damage is pretty high. It serves more purpose than Dim Shift. You can't even put sets in that thing.
Please buff Ice Control.
Wish a dev would comment on one of these threads someday... seems like there is a new one with every issue (not to mention 2-3 in between each :P).
As someone who has heavily played all the control sets save Mind (I play it, just not heavily)... I can say without hesitation that Grav (and Ice, to a much lesser degree) needs work.
You guys (and everyone else) point out the same issues over and over again... yet no one with a colorful name ever comments (that I see).
Oh well. Maybe by I30....
Guides: Dark Armor and IOs | SS/DA | Crabbing | Fortunata
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I seriously doubt it's needed in order to improve the set. It just needs tweaks in key places. That was one of the concepts I had in mind when I did a suggestion thread for it a while back. Dimension Shift gets a lot of hate but I personally have a lower opinion of Propel. Propel is an attack and not only do Dominators already have a secondary full of damage, Lift is already in the set for both damage and ST mitigation. I'd love to see Propel gain a stun and be treated more like a control move than an attack.
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Originally Posted by Mega_Jamie
Break the cottage rule... alot.
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I can at least see a purpose for propel for a gravity controller, and I don't have a problem with Grav carrying some powers that are more useful for controllers than dominators, since our inherent is FAR better (IMO). Dimension shift is just garbage.
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True, it most likley is easier than I had thought.
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Originally Posted by Muon_Neutrino
That tech actually already exists. We know they can already have two powers open up in the same set at the same level - there are a number of examples in the primary sets of both peacebringers and warshades. The only really interesting bit is the part that would make the two powers mutually exclusive, but that tech also already exists - crab spider venom and frag grenades are mutually exclusive with the wolf spider gun versions.
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I don't suffer from altitis, I enjoy every minute of it.
Thank you Devs & Community people for a great game.
So sad to be ending ):
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Widow Follow Up and Build Up are also mutually exclusive (where Fortunata Aim and Follow Up are not).|
Originally Posted by Muon_Neutrino
That tech actually already exists. We know they can already have two powers open up in the same set at the same level - there are a number of examples in the primary sets of both peacebringers and warshades. The only really interesting bit is the part that would make the two powers mutually exclusive, but that tech also already exists - crab spider venom and frag grenades are mutually exclusive with the wolf spider gun versions.
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The issue I see with adding such a setup to Gravity is that then people would clamor for alternate powers for basically every power set. It's just a huge can of worms that I think the Devs would very much want to avoid.
Ultimately there have been numerous suggestions to improve Gravity without taking such drastic measures. It's just a matter of any of the changes getting made.
@Oathbound & @Oathbound Too
Gravity certainly could use a review. My oldest controller is Grav/Rad (rerolled when the respec taskforce was too tough to do), and he's still only level 33 after nearly 7 years of on and off playing. He was CaptSingularity before Singularities were in the powerset (based on an old alien in a customized race I played in starfleet battles).
Grav is bad enough that it lead to me abandoning a fresh Grav/Time controller who was power leveled through AE content to 34! It's animations are too slow. It's controls are flakey.
I love Singularity as a pet, and the concept of the set is awesome. But the implementation and balance of Gravity Control is dreadful.
Great suggestions:
1) Lift as an aoe knockup, Yeah!
2) Propel as an AOE. How about a targeted AOE similar to the grenade temp power? It would be a huge improvement. The Vet attacks are light years ahead of Propel as it is.
3) Dimension shift replaced with something fun and less likely to instill team loathing. I've seen it, although I've never taken the power. I believe only grief loving players take this power to torment damage dealers.
Well that was a pretty good necro.
I think it's bizarre that GRAVITY CONTROL doesn't have a knockdown patch. It would be a really fantastic thing to wormhole mobs into.
Also fix Wormhole
Lift affecting bosses does come in handy though, that's one concession I'll make to grav's utility.
With sets like Time and Elec Control I think we can work around Gravity control to make it a reality without the Devs having to do so much work.
Maybe they can make a sister control set that's much like gravity? Maybe Magnetism or "Oops sorry guys we screwed up"