Wishes for Modifications in Gravity Control...


Carnifax_NA

 

Posted

Hm. Good point. I wonder, though, if there's a way to make a 'unresistable' phase that can apply even to phased targets? This, if possible, would make a toggle workable. The only issue is that it runs to the issue of bypassing the few eneemies that are supposed to be phase resistant, which could be termed an exploit. Also, phase enhancements would not longer be needed. (Even in a 'normal' toggle they add mag, but an 'unresistable' thing, if it would work, would make this moot.)

I wonder if there's a way to do something like this: 10 second effect duration, three pulses every ~10 seconds that check . 5 seconds apart to see if the target is phased. If so, they phase. If not, they do nothing. This could be a lag issue, but would mean that there's a way past server discrepancies and phase durations to keep the effect. At worst case, if it gave no performance issues, it would mean that there would be small holes in the coverage and a delay when untoggled, but that still seems preferable as a control that you can set the duration on (aside from the 30 seconds) and have active with one application. *Shrugs*


 

Posted

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Originally Posted by Muon_Neutrino View Post
Regarding toggle/patch phase powers - there's a technical issue with making a phase power anything other than a click. Specifically, a toggle or patch power works by pulsing a short duration effect repeatedly while it's active (generally, the effect lasts slightly longer than the pulse time to ensure that it stays perma). That works fine for a debuff or whatnot, but what happens when the effect is a phase?

Say you had a toggle or patch that applied a 0.75s phase every 0.5 seconds. The first tick will phase the targets just fine. But when 0.5s rolls around and it tries to apply the second tick of phase.... all the targets are phased, and so can't be targeted! If it's a toggle, it will detoggle at this point, since its anchor is no longer a legal target. But even if it's a patch (or if it somehow didn't detoggle), the phase will expire at 0.75s, and the enemies will be unphased for 0.25s until tick 3 rolls around.

The only way to prevent this is to make the phase last less time than the pulse, but then you have the same problem of the enemies being periodically unphased before the next pulse arrives. So in general, phase powers can't be anything but clicks or *self* affecting toggles.
The code exists to flag a powers as "Ignores Phase."

Hamidon has this ability already, so a toggle/pulse phase power could be coded with that functionality. (Code rant etc. etc.)

Even without giving that tech to the players there's a second way that a Phase Patch could work.

Have it spawn two pets at your target location. One unphased and one with a self-phase power. This allows the first unphased pet to phase enemy targets, and the second phased pet to maintain it via the "Phased can attack Phased" PvP functionality (which again would have to be implimented in PvE if it's not already (I don't recall/think it is)).


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Posted

I've always wanted to see a power with an effect similar to a black hole. Location click power, with an untargetable pet that draws a circle around itself. Anything trying to get toward the outside of the circle gets repelled toward the epicenter, and anything that actually REACHES the outside suffers knockback—again, toward the center of the location. Toss in a Mag 2 stun, and you're golden.


 

Posted

A "Pull-in" mechanic is an often requested one, unfortunately the current game engine can't do it.

There's no Reverse Repel or Knockback effect that works toward your character (or target) instead of away from it.

The only possibility would be to summon a pet behind the mob and have the pet cast the Knockback, but there's no way to make sure the pet is summoned BEHIND your target. So just as often as it ends up KnockIN, it'd also be KnockBACK, KnockRIGHT and KnockLEFT with no knowing which it would end up as until it happened.

If you think knockback is hated now, just imagine how maligned such a power would be.


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Posted

Propel looks awsome but... i dont see how i can throw a forklift into a mob of guys and only hit one person !!! it should be a target aoe gravity is a primal force in the universe an in this game its very meh. since the damage is all smashing i think it could use a damage buff as well


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oathbound View Post
A "Pull-in" mechanic is an often requested one, unfortunately the current game engine can't do it.

There's no Reverse Repel or Knockback effect that works toward your character (or target) instead of away from it.

The only possibility would be to summon a pet behind the mob and have the pet cast the Knockback, but there's no way to make sure the pet is summoned BEHIND your target. So just as often as it ends up KnockIN, it'd also be KnockBACK, KnockRIGHT and KnockLEFT with no knowing which it would end up as until it happened.

If you think knockback is hated now, just imagine how maligned such a power would be.
Could it be fudged using a pseudopet which uses a short duration Taunt and a wide area PBAOE TP Foe to get things gathered into the centre I wonder?


 

Posted

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Originally Posted by Carnifax_NA View Post
Could it be fudged using a pseudopet which uses a short duration Taunt and a wide area PBAOE TP Foe to get things gathered into the centre I wonder?
That's one idea I've often thought about. (More or less a PBAoE/location AoE version of Wormhole.)

It wouldn't really have the feel or look of some invisible force gripping the mobs and towing them inward, but I think it could be made to get the job done.

Still, that would be an idea for a new set. It's been 7 years. Dimension Shift isn't going away, so all we can hope for is for it to be made better.


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Posted

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Originally Posted by Oathbound View Post
Dimension Shift(and Blackhole in Dark Miasma)
Convert it from a Target AoE into a Location AoE patch such as Quicksand or Tar Patch. Have it tick a short duration phase, say 0.75slong, every 0.5s, which affects BOTH enemies AND allies within it's radius (but only immobilizes foes) so that if you don't want to deal with them right away you just stay out of the phase and it works just like it does now, but if you WANT to interact with the mobs you can enter the phase field and attack them like normal. If it proves a bit too much heat for you, you can just get out of the patch and be safe from the phased mobs.

Since the immobilize doesn't protect from knockback or teleport, an ally could also go into the phase field, target a phased mob and then KB/TP/Worhole them out of the field to be dealt with individually. Or on the flip side, if you don't manage to get all the mobs in the field when you first cast it, you can KB/TP/Wormhole them into the field after it's set up.

Also rename it Dimensional Breach or Dimensional Rift, since Dimension Shift is more of an Action, while the power's now more of a Thing.
I absolutely love this suggestion. I've read many suggestion on how to fix Dimension Shift, but I think this is by far the best.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oathbound View Post
I know that it works like that in PvP (Phased players can attack Phased players) and while I don't know if that works in PvE (aside from Hamidon), one would think it could be applied there easily enough. (Standard code rant applies.)
Last year I leveled a grav controller and my interest was peaked in Dimension Shift. After a lot of testing to understand how it works (and why it sometimes doesn't appear to), I realized that the phase tech introduced to PVP had also been quietly ported to PVE. Unfortunately, a great deal of the player base hasn't noticed the change yet. Fortunately, we don't need to go into rule-breaking territory like Hami for this suggestion to work.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seldom View Post
Hm. Good point. I wonder, though, if there's a way to make a 'unresistable' phase that can apply even to phased targets? This, if possible, would make a toggle workable. The only issue is that it runs to the issue of bypassing the few eneemies that are supposed to be phase resistant, which could be termed an exploit. Also, phase enhancements would not longer be needed. (Even in a 'normal' toggle they add mag, but an 'unresistable' thing, if it would work, would make this moot.)
I can't recall (and I'll have to dedicate some serious search-fu to find it), but when Hami was made to affect phased and Untouchable powers was it something baked into the power or entity. For some, reason I'm thinking it was the latter.

Also, intangible enhancements now do nothing. They only affect the Intangible portion of Dimension Shift which only removes hit box detection and applies a translucent effect; the real work of the power is done by applying the phase status. You can, for example, Dimension Shift the Kraken and it will be phased though there will be no visual indicator of its changed status.

Anyway, for the power to work as Oathbound suggested there's a very simple solution: spawn two pseudo-pets, one phased and one unphased. The unphased pet will do the work of phasing players and enemies that enter the area while the phased pet will maintain their phase status after the initial phasing.


 

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Originally Posted by Gearsinger View Post
The cottage rule needs to go far, far away.

It didn't always exist, you know. In the beginning, Gravity's final power was a high endurance costing, interruptible Assemble the Team. It was changed to Singularity to bring the set more in line with other control sets. It was a vast improvement.

The devs need to allow themselves the freedom to change the game for the better. The players will adapt just as we always have.

Edit: Actually, the last power was Wormhole. Fold Space was the level 26 power. Per Paragon Wiki.
I had no idea Gravity was even worse than it is now once (and I say this as a big fan of Grav). How did anyone play the set back then without rerolling or /wristing?


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daemodand View Post
I had no idea Gravity was even worse than it is now once (and I say this as a big fan of Grav). How did anyone play the set back then without rerolling or /wristing?
More than just those things, the activation times for Crush and Gravity Distortion used to be MUCH longer (3.1 and 3.2 seconds respectively). This is because activation times weren't factored into power balance at the start of the game.

In fact Singularity apparently STILL uses the much longer activation times.

So yes, as sad as it is, Gravity used to be MUCH worse than it currently is.


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Posted

I always say and will keep saying the following. For certain powers like Dimension Shift and its ilk they should create an alternate power players can choose from. Sort of a choice from Column A or Column B like you get with a lunch special sometimes.

So this way your not messing with the "cottage rule" and players have something that might be considered more useful for today's gaming. If they never introduced IO's and set bonuses I could see where powers like Dimension Shift might become more important, but luckily that is not the case.

I would introduce 2nd power choices for all questionable powers. Then slowly introduce other choices for more enjoyable powers. At the end you have a New AT within an existing AT and it's a win/win for everyone.

It would also introduce some spice into PvP because it would add some more guessing into which power someone took from a particular set. Is it the old Darkest Night or is it that new power which I am not setup to defend against that well ?

Propel is one of the coolest powers in the game. I love when I see someone get hit by a car or some light pole. But the cast time is darn long and should be changed / fixed.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daemodand View Post
I had no idea Gravity was even worse than it is now once (and I say this as a big fan of Grav). How did anyone play the set back then without rerolling or /wristing?
I truly believe it is because they have other sets working as intended or better, that lesser used sets such as gravity are really not addressed. Their mentality is we know this set and others lesser used sets from other AT stink, but you have SO MANY character slots and so many ways to PL a character that if you need to get "X" AT up you can do that. So they will only address the more played AT types which will give them larger complaints.

Nutshell we know gravity has issues go play a mind or earth. Newer players do not know this so once they get to some point they will either reroll or just say heck with it I'm this far in I might as well finish him and have something at 50. A smarter newer player will just come to the forums and ask how to fix or make their grav toon playable. Which regardless of the Set or AT there is always some fix or work around that can be done to make the play bearable. Existing players know what they are getting into and are doing it for the fun factor or just for a change of pace because they can afford to funnel money into the toon to make it playable at any level.

With a game that is 7 years old and with a somewhat limited player base you need to keep the majority happy not the minority. Just standing at a market area gives you a small idea of what players are playing now a days.

I have an AR Device and I really just don't see that many around. I play just about every day or 5x a week now a days and I just don't see any Device players. Heck I hardly see AR players around.


1. Why Soft Cap is Important : http://dechskaison.blogspot.com/2011...important.html
2. Limits: http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Limits
3. Attack Mechanics: http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Attack_Mechanics
4. Rule of Five: http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Rule_o...e_Law_of_Fives

 

Posted

I find it mildly amazing that with all the sets that've received fixes, changes and revamps over the course of the game, grav remains unchanged (sans some minor activation time changes.) It's too bad, because I really like the look of the set visually, but can't stand playing it.

The other thing is that people, somewhere, apparently like grav/ and think it's "fine." Can't understand those folks, but I'm sure they'd become pretty vocal if changes were ever proposed.

I think a decent sort of a quick fix would be to have singularity spawn two pets, rather than just one.


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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silencer7 View Post
I think a decent sort of a quick fix would be to have singularity spawn two pets, rather than just one.
Except this wouldn't really fix anything. Once you have singularity, the set is decent, perhaps even quite nice (have to work on hearsay right now - my highest level grav is a 22 grav/rad controller) - Singy is an awesome backup controller that fills on all the holes in the set. The problem is the run up to 27/28 when you have no reliable AE control and nothing to make up for them but single target damage powers, one of which is basically useless to dom's thanks to the long animation (its ok for controllers, but still not great).

Something desperately needs to be done to the set so that, like all other control sets, you have some form of hard control other than a one single target hold by L12/18. I mean, even illusion control gets deceive and blind, which tide you over until you get PA at 18.


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Originally Posted by EricHough View Post
Except this wouldn't really fix anything. Once you have singularity, the set is decent, perhaps even quite nice (have to work on hearsay right now - my highest level grav is a 22 grav/rad controller) - Singy is an awesome backup controller that fills on all the holes in the set.
Actually Singy is not that potent. He is fine and all, but I would love to have 2 Sings again. Having two of them would be like having a mini-controller backing you up. Having one is not like having an awesome backup controller that fills on all the holes in the set. Having two is not even that good, but it would be a fair bit better than now.


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Posted

another problem with gravity IMO is wormhole. as a opening aoe stun its horrible . it requires too much set up and it scatters weaker mobs its just too much work and not enuff pay off


 

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Originally Posted by Redd Rumm View Post
another problem with gravity IMO is wormhole. as a opening aoe stun its horrible . it requires too much set up and it scatters weaker mobs its just too much work and not enuff pay off
I kinda disagree with this, I like Wormhole, especially solo. On teams it can be kinda annoying / clunky if your team don't know what you're up to.

It could really do with being a 25 foot radius. And Grav overall should have a second AOE mez so you aren't relying so heavily on Wormhole in the first place. That's it's main issue IMO, it's a useful tool but not ideally suited to being your primary form of AOE control on teams.


 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by StratoNexus View Post
Actually Singy is not that potent. He is fine and all, but I would love to have 2 Sings again. Having two of them would be like having a mini-controller backing you up. Having one is not like having an awesome backup controller that fills on all the holes in the set. Having two is not even that good, but it would be a fair bit better than now.
I will bow to those in the know on this - however, I still hold out that fixing the set from 32+ is not good enough, although it would be a start at least.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by EricHough View Post
I will bow to those in the know on this - however, I still hold out that fixing the set from 32+ is not good enough, although it would be a start at least.
Indeed. Fixing post 32 for Gravity won't do a Damned bit of good when many/most people who try Gravity likely give up on it LONG before then.


Hell I've given up on it at least a dozen times already. Completely serious.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Redd Rumm View Post
another problem with gravity IMO is wormhole. as a opening aoe stun its horrible . it requires too much set up and it scatters weaker mobs its just too much work and not enuff pay off
I use wormhole much more for its positioning ability than its stun. I kinda don't much care if it stuns or not, so long as the mobs end up where I want them.

Of course you need to have something to greet their arrival with. My new build has grav/ice/ice combined and it's awesome dropping mobs into a sleet + ice storm patch. Toss out proc'd CF, frost breath and ISC for more win.

Another great use for WH is not so much as a direct control power of the mob in front of your team, but as a herding tool to bring more mobs into your team's kill box. I was doing this a ton on the LGTF last night, dropping pockets of rikti off to the side into our AoE storm from the 3 doms, 2 blasters and MM on the team. What point was there for controlling the immediate mob when they were already being sliced into ribbons? Nope. Bringing more friends to the party was much more useful. Boosted our efficiency considerably.

That's something no other power can do. You just need to build your grav to handle the ranged alpha from the mob you're porting over if you stay in LOS.


Please buff Ice Control.

 

Posted

Couldn't you approximate the "pull-in" effect with a pseudopet that cast teleport foe?

Like, locational aoe style field that tries to port mobs inside to the center of it?

you know, I'm not actually sure how useful that would be


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carnifax_NA View Post
I kinda disagree with this, I like Wormhole, especially solo. On teams it can be kinda annoying / clunky if your team don't know what you're up to.

It could really do with being a 25 foot radius. And Grav overall should have a second AOE mez so you aren't relying so heavily on Wormhole in the first place. That's it's main issue IMO, it's a useful tool but not ideally suited to being your primary form of AOE control on teams.
I don't mind the power itself, personally, but I hate the manner in which it is used. I generally dislike click-n-stick powers and much prefer targetted AoEs.


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Originally Posted by Tenzhi View Post
I don't mind the power itself, personally, but I hate the manner in which it is used. I generally dislike click-n-stick powers and much prefer targetted AoEs.
It is kind of both, really. You select a target and the AoE is centered on that enemy, just like Flashfires or Explosive Blast. While you could have something like Ice Storm or Earthquake be just a targeted AoE instead of a placed patch, in order for Wormhole to be functional as a TP foe, you need some way to tell it where to TP the targeted foes. Therefore, you also need to click somewhere to tell them where to go.

A keybind could be useful to make it a two step process, just like Flashfires. Select enemy, ctrl-click the target area.

/bind lctrl+click "powexecname wormhole"


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So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by StratoNexus View Post
A keybind could be useful to make it a two step process, just like Flashfires. Select enemy, ctrl-click the target area.

/bind lctrl+click "powexecname wormhole"
This kind of bind works very well for Wormhole (or really any location target power).

I use exactly this type of set up for characters with Teleport as a travel power. shift+lbutton for TP and shift+rbutton for either TP Foe or Recall Friend. This lets me chain cast TP very quickly by just holding down shift and clicking where I want to go.


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