Stalker or Scrapper on your team?
By
Auroxis,
Posted on: 2011-02-09 08:37 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
The more I think about it, the more I think Assassin Strike is the reason why Stalker feels under-performed on a larger team.
Yes, AS does BIG damage but at the cost of several conditions:
1. Loss of important pbaoe like Spin, Whirling Sword. etc. The only set that doesn't suffer this is Electricity Melee because only Hand Clap is taken out. Oh and Quill doesn't work well on Stalker.
2. 4s set up time and sometimes when there is lag or when you stand up on a hill, you may get interrupted. I know I've clicked twice and lost like 15 end x 2. (endurance cost needs to be adjusted IMO) 4s set up time also means that if you miss your first AS, you lose a lot of damage potential during Build Up. I also think AS should be auto-hit in PvE.
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Now the argument is that "nobody told you that you must use Assassin Strike!". This argument would only work if Assassin Strike isn't part of the Primary power and that Stalker didn't lose aoe attack for it. Sure, I sometimes don't use Assassin Strike at all when I am on a large team but this just means I am not using an AT-defining power that forces this AT to have less aoe and less survival. With the way Assassin Strike is now, the game is just a bit too fast pace for it. I do feel Assassin Strike feels great at low level when others can't do what Stalker can and that's about it. AS doesn't scale well with difficulty.
I am currently on the "hate" relationship with stalker even though I just made a new MA/Will and he just hit lvl 37. :P
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
Look at the question from a position of objectivity. Yes, a Scrapper and a Stalker can both be effective on teams. If nothing else, they add more damage and can soak up damage that would hit someone else. Neither are necessary, because no AT is necessary for the vast majority of content, but both are better than leaving a spot on the team open.
To get to the heart of the question then, think about being invited to a team as either a Scrapper or Stalker. Assume you have both at the same level, both built well and equipped equivalently. You're equally skilled at playing either AT. So, all else being equal, which AT will bring more to a team?
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In my experience, the above is only a valid argument when you have team leaders that consider you useless unless you are pumping out hundreds of points of AoE damage in every spawn. In other words: dicks. |
Originally Posted by Jibikao
The more I think about it, the more I think Assassin Strike is the reason why Stalker feels under-performed on a larger team.
Yes, AS does BIG damage but at the cost of several conditions: 1. Loss of important pbaoe like Spin, Whirling Sword. etc. The only set that doesn't suffer this is Electricity Melee because only Hand Clap is taken out. Oh and Quill doesn't work well on Stalker. 2. 4s set up time and sometimes when there is lag or when you stand up on a hill, you may get interrupted. I know I've clicked twice and lost like 15 end x 2. (endurance cost needs to be adjusted IMO) 4s set up time also means that if you miss your first AS, you lose a lot of damage potential during Build Up. I also think AS should be auto-hit in PvE. Now the argument is that "nobody told you that you must use Assassin Strike!". This argument would only work if Assassin Strike isn't part of the Primary power and that Stalker didn't lose aoe attack for it. Sure, I sometimes don't use Assassin Strike at all when I am on a large team but this just means I am not using an AT-defining power that forces this AT to have less aoe and less survival. With the way Assassin Strike is now, the game is just a bit too fast pace for it. I do feel Assassin Strike feels great at low level when others can't do what Stalker can and that's about it. AS doesn't scale well with difficulty. |
I've simplified the whole "AT Role" down to 2 things: 1)keeping us alive, and 2)making them dead. As long as you are actively doing at least one of those two things you are welcome on my team.
It doesn't matter if you are making lots of things dead, or making one thing REALLY dead, the making dead part is all I care about. As long as I occasionally see "Your Name has defeated Enemy Name" in my window, you are welcome to stay on my team as long as you like. Or alternately, if your presence makes it easier for other people's names to appear in my window like that, you are welcome then too.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
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Does "all else being equal" mean powersets? Because if powersets are allowed to vary, the answer is going to depend a fair bit on the differences. Sure, some things are invariant, like the AT base HP and HP cap values. But what's more "valuable" to the team as a damage dealer: a MA/WP Scrapper or an Elec/Nin Stalker? What are we going to fight? What other damage dealers do we have?|
Originally Posted by streetlight
You're equally skilled at playing either AT. So, all else being equal, which AT will bring more to a team?
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At the end of the day, doesn't the real magnitude of the performance/"value" difference matter? Irrespective of how absolutely we can define the fact that, all other things being equal, one AT outperforms the other, how much difference does the performance gap really mean to most teams? For example, if it's within the noise of other factors usually outside our control, why even bother asking the question of which AT to choose?
My feeling is that some people always make a lot of noise about the very fact that a performance gap exists, and treat that as a reason to carry out acts of AT bias, with little or very narrow consideration of what that performance gap translates into on a practical team. I wonder if some folks don't think that doing things like this will help get an AT or powerset attention by the devs. If so, I think it's a (significant) overreaction, and mostly serves to screw over players who are actually willing to give the thing in question a whirl.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
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Red
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Well it worked on me, I just stripped down a min/maxed Spines/ninjitsu build in exchange for a Brute.|
Originally Posted by UberGuy
I wonder if some folks don't think that doing things like this will help get an AT or powerset attention by the devs. If so, I think it's a (significant) overreaction, and mostly serves to screw over players who are actually willing to give the thing in question a whirl.
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After what I went through on my Maxed Defense, permahasted stalker (People LAUGHING at the fact that I spent that much in IOs on a stalker!!!), I am never playing the AT again.
Its so nice that on my brute I get ASKED to join TFs/RAIDs instead of begging for a pity spot.
I have an addtional Elec/Ninjitsu simiarlly maxed out, that I am just waiting for an excuse to strip down and delete.
When something good happens to me, I can never enjoy it....
I am always too busy looking for the inevitable punchline...
BEHOLD THE POWER OF CHEESE!
If you've been subjected to behavior like that, I can't say I blame you for giving up. I'll tell you flat out, I think the players who acted like that with you are idiots. They would get one star from me, I would ensure I avoided them from then on, and I would proceed doing what I wanted to do.
What kills me most is that people like this are often so massively concerned about peak performance they would mock someone for choosing a Stalker, when this is probably one of the easiest if not the easiest MMO on the market.
I don't judge what or even how I want to play on what other people think of it to allow them that degree of control over me. I have found enough other players with mindsets like Claws', above, that this has never meant I was excluded from team content.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
Having recently teamed with a decent stalker I noticed two very distinct things.
1.) The group was able to spawn switch much faster and I got mezzed far less on my blaster because the bosses went down at the same time as everyone else. (Far outstripping the returns I was getting on Total Focus).
2.) The stalker was the only one who died, and repeatedly.
This made me want to make a stalker about as much as it made me not. Neither of those observations was true of the scrappers on the team, they kill +2-3 bosses as slowly or slower than my blaster, but they do live the entire mission.
"Fascinating. I'm not bored at all, I swear." -Kikuchiyo
Build and maybe powerset choice factors into that a lot. A Stalker really shouldn't die repeatedly. Faced with the exact same stresses as a Scrapper with the same powerset and build, yes, a Stalker will be defeated sooner, because they have lower HP. However, if the Stalker really was dying repeatedly (and the Scrapper(s) weren't really dying at all), I suspect he or she had a particularly fragile build. They may (also) have been playing vastly more incautiously.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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Weird, my Dark Melee/Ninjitsu stalker once tanked a GM for more than 5 minutes, simply because I hadn't noticed that no one else jumped in with me. And that was at level 42 with little or no IOs slotted. |
Originally Posted by Katten
Having recently teamed with a decent stalker I noticed two very distinct things.
1.) The group was able to spawn switch much faster and I got mezzed far less on my blaster because the bosses went down at the same time as everyone else. (Far outstripping the returns I was getting on Total Focus). 2.) The stalker was the only one who died, and repeatedly. This made me want to make a stalker about as much as it made me not. Neither of those observations was true of the scrappers on the team, they kill +2-3 bosses as slowly or slower than my blaster, but they do live the entire mission. |
I didn't die until I stopped to ask the team why they were just standing there looking at me. My response was along the lines of: How are you still alive? (Ironically followed by my death)
I've never had any undue problems staying alive on a stalker, or finding teams when I'm playing one. I tend to avoid the people who have proven themselves to be build nazis in the past, so AT dislike is almost never a factor.
Miles vary I guess.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
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The point I keep coming back to is that a Dark Melee/Ninjitsu scrapper (ignore for a moment that it doesn't exist, assume a straight port) of the same slotting and level would be able to do the same thing better.|
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
Weird, my Dark Melee/Ninjitsu stalker once tanked a GM for more than 5 minutes, simply because I hadn't noticed that no one else jumped in with me. And that was at level 42 with little or no IOs slotted.
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Is that reason enough to ban stalkers from teams? Hell no.
The difference is marginal, but it is also undeniable. I don't care that your stalker or any stalker does or does not do something another AT can or cannot do. I care that stalkers, as a whole, do not get the damage they deserve for the survivability that they sacrificed.
Where to now?
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Don't care about AoE. Stalkers should be going for a Boss so that it dies around the same time as the Minions in the spawn if there's other AoE going on, assuming there's no priority targets like Sappers or Sorcerors or mezzers of some sort.|
Originally Posted by Jibikao
1. Loss of important pbaoe like Spin, Whirling Sword. etc. The only set that doesn't suffer this is Electricity Melee because only Hand Clap is taken out. Oh and Quill doesn't work well on Stalker.
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And Quills doesn't work well on a Stalker purely because it's not a power they can choose. If they could, though, it'd work fine since aura effects of that sort are now suppressed (not turned off) on Stalkers while Hidden.
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Since I don't think I ever explicitly stated it in this thread, I was content with the imbalance as it existed and assumed that it was within the "noise of other factors" that you talk about. The only AT I discriminated against on teams was Masterminds, and that was due to the sheer number of people who think that standing there and letting their pets wander uncontrolled around the map aggroing everything they can is the "correct" way to play. I know what a good MM can do, but until I know that someone can play a MM well, I don't want to team with them.|
Originally Posted by UberGuy
For example, if it's within the noise of other factors usually outside our control, why even bother asking the question of which AT to choose?
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So anyway, I felt that things were skewed, but not so much that it really needed to be tweaked. But then the devs tweaked the melee ATs - reducing the Brute damage cap and average damage due to Fury, giving Tankers a resistance debuff for a little more damage and a higher hit point cap, leaving Scrappers alone, apparently as the baseline, while Stalkers got... what? Oh, yeah. They still do less damage in most situations than Scrappers with less survivability, and a post much later after I started a thread about the imbalance saying "they're as strong as we want to make them".
But the stated logic behind the Brute changes was due to them often doing more damage than Scrappers while having more survivability. For full disclosure on the subject, I don't even consider the Fury changes a "nerf", although it did reduce my sustained +damage during most missions on my Brutes enough people like the steadier level that it's debatable; the definite nerf is the damage cap reduction which means that damage buffs always favor the Scrapper. If that amount of difference was significant enough to make a change for one AT then why not another?
That's where I'm coming from on this issue - it's not because all I play are Stalkers, although my Stalkers outnumber my Scrappers 2-1, but because I want some form of consistent behavior in how such balance changes are enacted. That consistency is why I was fine with the nerf to Shield Charge, even though I was pushing for a buff to Lightning Rod at the time - they didn't do what I was hoping for, but at least SC doesn't completely outclass LR in every imaginable way now like it did when it did full damage to the entire radius.
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Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle
it has gone from unconscionable to downright appalling that we have no way of measuring our characters' wetness.
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Originally Posted by Brillig
It's hard to beat the entertainment value of Whackjob Wednesdays.
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I don't have any problem with that. I'd love to see Stalkers get some love.
What I do not accept is this broadly justifies whether or not to include a Stalker on a team. I do not accept that the (arguably inappropriate) limits on their AT's performance we would like changed have an affect on a team that is so large that we can readily perceive it given performance variations caused by factors we often can't control, such as how a given player built their character or how well they play.
Again, this thread has people answering two questions. One is "do you think that Stalkers could stand to be improved?" The other is, stated somewhat differently than how the OP presented it, "do you discriminate against adding Stalkers to your teams" (because of Stalkers could use improvement)?
My answer to the first question is a nearly unqualified "yes", and my answer to the second is a nearly unqualified "no".
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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Eh, Quills is a PBAoE aura that does tiny damage up-front and moderate dmg over the course of a longer fight. The general survival difference between Stalker and Scrapper on a team isn't that large because the Scraps usually have powers that will draw/keep aggro on them while a Stalk does not. Quills will just assure you die as fast as a Scrapper would before taking into account HP values.|
Originally Posted by JD_Gumby
And Quills doesn't work well on a Stalker purely because it's not a power they can choose. If they could, though, it'd work fine since aura effects of that sort are now suppressed (not turned off) on Stalkers while Hidden. |
I quite prefer a bigger, instantaneous effect that doesn't require me standing next to angry foes on a Stalker. Which brings up another choice factor: what if someone someone feels like playing a melee that doesn't have to be drowned in foes to be effective? Like, if I'm playing Willpower, that's going to mean I need to be surrounded all the time? Or anything with a dmg aura? Maybe I just want to hit things and stand where I want to?
[EDIT]Oh oh! or if a teammate has KB powers? Lol, can hear the prissy Inv and WP Scraps and Brutes already. On a Tanker, I generally don't care as I can force the foes to run right back with Taunt, and on a Stalker, I actually enjoy KB. Single separated foes means ST dmg is more valuable. If the KB keeps everything huddled? Well, that's just win win for everybody.
Just ran Sup (AR/Storm Corr) on an otherwise all-scrapper team.
You scrappers couldn't hold aggro if I put it in a bucket and dumped it in your lap.
The whole previous week, a fellow deviant organized back to back speed runs of LGTF (he was working his 50 runs progress on the new badge).
They were not break-record attempts and not picky in AT or ppl, the team was always open to anyone (holds are always there, cause his mate who worked his badge also, was a troller)
Friday night i took part in 4 back to back runs. In 1st run (with my SS/elec brute), before entering the Hami mission, i suggested that i would solo the pylons, while the rest of team bring down the mitos, the leader agreed and we went on doing it.
In 2nd run (with my MA/SR scrapper), i suggested the same, he agreed again, and we went doing it.
In 3rd run (with my Claws/Inv scrapper), before we enter the Hami mission, the leader suggested that we would follow the same pattern (since it went smoothly twice before)
In 4th run (with my Ninja/Ninjitsu stalker), before we enter the Hami mission, the leader suggested that i would solo the pylons again (wich kinda suprised me showing such a trust to a stalker), and we finished it smooth as all the others times
All 4 toons are IOd and softcapped, and noone else in team pulled the rikti mobs of the pylons ( i took down the pylons with Riktis covering me all the time).
All i am saying from the above is that stalkers can provide great help in any team, as scrappers do.
defiant only
@amartia
my public list : http://cit.cohtitan.com/profile/9355
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Originally Posted by UberGuy
I don't have any problem with that. I'd love to see Stalkers get some love.
What I do not accept is this broadly justifies whether or not to include a Stalker on a team. I do not accept that the (arguably inappropriate) limits on their AT's performance we would like changed have an affect on a team that is so large that we can readily perceive it given performance variations caused by factors we often can't control, such as how a given player built their character or how well they play. Again, this thread has people answering two questions. One is "do you think that Stalkers could stand to be improved?" The other is, stated somewhat differently than how the OP presented it, "do you discriminate against adding Stalkers to your teams" (because of Stalkers could use improvement)? My answer to the first question is a nearly unqualified "yes", and my answer to the second is a nearly unqualified "no". |
And I want to clarify that I DO NOT discriminate Stalkers. Hell, I am surprised that after counting all the lvl 30+ characters that I have, Stalker ranks #1 (but it's not my most favorite, Bane is).
I keep making them even though I keep having problems with them and it just frustrates me that the people I play with have a STRONG dislike of Stalker and I simply wonder if Scrapper is all that better?
I have to admit, as a person who usually invites people, I do feel like inviting a Stalker (and sometimes Dominator) is like a gamble. The last stalker I invited, I was not thrilled at all. He was literally waiting to AS and then waiting to re-hide. His DPS is terrible because of that. I can see why some leaders prefer not to invite Stalkers just because "how you use Stalker" makes or breaks the AT IMO. (Same as Dominator. I've seen lvl 40 Dominator without ST Hold. I don't know how he level to 40..maybe power leveled through AE)
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
I am curious to find out what is the newest data on how many and how long the players keep their new Stalkers especially on the Hero side. I can imagine some hero players who get "ganked" by Stalkers in pvp zone probably thought Stalker is such an "awesome" AT.
The newest data I've read is back in 2008?
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
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Part of the reason I only brought up Scrapper is that I know Brute has a "good" role on the team. Brute is versatile enough to take both damage and tanking role. I don't even want to touch "Brute or Stalker? Who would you choose?" subject... it won't end pretty. lol|
Originally Posted by Siolfir
Since I don't think I ever explicitly stated it in this thread, I was content with the imbalance as it existed and assumed that it was within the "noise of other factors" that you talk about. The only AT I discriminated against on teams was Masterminds, and that was due to the sheer number of people who think that standing there and letting their pets wander uncontrolled around the map aggroing everything they can is the "correct" way to play. I know what a good MM can do, but until I know that someone can play a MM well, I don't want to team with them.
So anyway, I felt that things were skewed, but not so much that it really needed to be tweaked. But then the devs tweaked the melee ATs - reducing the Brute damage cap and average damage due to Fury, giving Tankers a resistance debuff for a little more damage and a higher hit point cap, leaving Scrappers alone, apparently as the baseline, while Stalkers got... what? Oh, yeah. They still do less damage in most situations than Scrappers with less survivability, and a post much later after I started a thread about the imbalance saying "they're as strong as we want to make them". But the stated logic behind the Brute changes was due to them often doing more damage than Scrappers while having more survivability. For full disclosure on the subject, I don't even consider the Fury changes a "nerf", although it did reduce my sustained +damage during most missions on my Brutes enough people like the steadier level that it's debatable; the definite nerf is the damage cap reduction which means that damage buffs always favor the Scrapper. If that amount of difference was significant enough to make a change for one AT then why not another? That's where I'm coming from on this issue - it's not because all I play are Stalkers, although my Stalkers outnumber my Scrappers 2-1, but because I want some form of consistent behavior in how such balance changes are enacted. That consistency is why I was fine with the nerf to Shield Charge, even though I was pushing for a buff to Lightning Rod at the time - they didn't do what I was hoping for, but at least SC doesn't completely outclass LR in every imaginable way now like it did when it did full damage to the entire radius. |
On the side note, I do feel Brute fury change is a buff for me as I used to hate losing fury so quickly. I enjoy my Brute more now but I still don't have a lvl 50 Brute...
I honestly think if they change Team Critical buff to Defender's Vigilance, we'll see Stalker out-damage scrapper at least in the ST department (except maybe Dark Melee and follow-up stacked Claw/DB).
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
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qft.
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Originally Posted by dispari
[/list]
scrapper vs stalker is not some sort of corruptor vs defender situation. There are not pros and cons to consider and weigh based on what you feel your team needs. Stalkers are not weak in one aspect but strong in another. They are simply weak. They have only cons. They have no meaningful advantages over scrappers. |
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I think it's a crock.|
Originally Posted by Deus_Otiosus
qft.
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What I think is far more correct to say is that the Stalker's advantages are widely considered not to outweigh their advantages, particularly on a team.
Nothing but disadvantages? I'm going to be horridly blunt: that's just stupid, and anyone claiming it is trying too hard to railroad their opinion over others.
I don't know why it's so hard for people to discuss something that might actually be a problem without dissolving into such ridiculous hyperbole.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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Compared to scrappers? And if they do have any advantages, do they get to apply in the game? You can call it hyperbole, but I'd rather call it a reasonable generalization. Back up and look at it from a different perspective.|
Originally Posted by UberGuy
Nothing but disadvantages? I'm going to be horridly blunt: that's just stupid, and anyone claiming it is trying too hard to railroad their opinion over others.
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Stalkers have no meaningful advantages over scrappers. Maybe you glossed over the word meaningful in your first read. Maybe you thought it meant compared to all other ATs. But in the context, I think it is a valid viewpoint and I agree with it.
I still freely invite them to my team when I am looking for a damage dealer, but they have no meaningful advantages over scrappers.
Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
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It's not hyperbole, and I didn't resort to skirting any discussion of something that "might actually" be a problem. I said exactly what I intended to say. The actual real problem with Stalkers is literally what I said: they have no meaningful advantages over Scrappers. They have less HP, an abysmal HP cap, less defensive powers (in some cases), less AoEs (in most cases), less base damage, less DPS. They even have a handful of extra downsides like how BU can't compete with Soul Drain or Follow Up, or how they don't get things like Shield Defense or Fire Armor. The only advantage they do have is burst damage, which is not a meaningful advantage, or even a useful one for teaming.|
Originally Posted by UberGuy
I think it's a crock.
What I think is far more correct to say is that the Stalker's advantages are widely considered not to outweigh their advantages, particularly on a team. Nothing but disadvantages? I'm going to be horridly blunt: that's just stupid, and anyone claiming it is trying too hard to railroad their opinion over others. I don't know why it's so hard for people to discuss something that might actually be a problem without dissolving into such ridiculous hyperbole. |
In order to fill a role that nobody needs in the first place, they take a hit to performance in every other area. That is why Stalkers are weak and unpopular.
And please don't resort to "nobody needs any role in the first place," because people still have uses and desires to find things like buffers, debuffers, tankers, mezzers. They fit into any team makeup and can improve the performance of the team overall even if they aren't totally necessary. Stalkers fill a role that nobody wants or needs to look for.
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Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.
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Originally Posted by StratoNexus
Compared to scrappers? And if they do have any advantages, do they get to apply in the game? You can call it hyperbole, but I'd rather call it a reasonable generalization. Back up and look at it from a different perspective.
Stalkers have no meaningful advantages over scrappers. Maybe you glossed over the word meaningful in your first read. Maybe you thought it meant compared to all other ATs. But in the context, I think it is a valid viewpoint and I agree with it. I still freely invite them to my team when I am looking for a damage dealer, but they have no meaningful advantages over scrappers. |
Exactly.
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Originally Posted by UberGuy
I think it's a crock. What I think is far more correct to say is that the Stalker's advantages are widely considered not to outweigh their advantages, particularly on a team. |
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Originally Posted by UberGuy
Nothing but disadvantages?
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I'm willing to listen to what you think their advantages over a Scrapper are and why a team would be better off with one as opposed to a Scrapper.
Hypothetical Situation:
Let's pretend that the AT you choose, Scrapper or Stalker will not be played by an actual player whose feelings you will hurt.
It will be played by a highly intelligent AI that has no feelings, has the ability to match primary and secondary powersets as closely as possible and the AI gives you the choice of which AT (Scrapper or Stalker) it will join your team with.
Which do you choose?
See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately.