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Amen to what? An ill informed and half *** rant against open world pvp? Why even bother? Just dont play on a pvp server. Problem solved?|
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
Amen to that. Amen to that in spades.
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Oh is this the point the pvp haters start their usual barrage against anyone who even expresses the slightest appreciation of pvp?
Once upon a time pvp in cox was good and alot of people enjoyed it...The End
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How exactly is that obvious? You didn't say anything about it in your post, and I haven't really done any research on it, because I'm not in a financial position to be buying more video games at the moment. I see no point in researching games I can't afford to buy, so I haven't done so. |
Originally Posted by Charnell
Yeh nice try. If you could have contained your bile for one second and actually thought about it they obviously are going to have the majority pve servers with no open world pvp.
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From what you said in your post, it is perfectly reasonable to come to the conclusion that the entire game will have open world PvP whether you like it or not. PvE servers that were never mentioned are not in any way obvious, nor is it something I should consider obvious simply by thinking about it. Your post, which is the first I've heard regarding PvP in that game, simply stated that there is open world PvP, and nothing else about it.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
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Since you are the only one here who has first hand information, maybe you should INFORM PEOPLE BETTER BEFORE GOING OFF ON THEM. If I was ill-informed, the fault is YOURS for not sharing the information that would have made me better informed. Unless you think I should automatically know or assume things about a game I have never played. If I was ill informed, it was because I got the bad information from YOU. |
Originally Posted by Charnell
Amen to what? An ill informed and half *** rant against open world pvp? Why even bother? Just dont play on a pvp server. Problem solved?
Oh is this the point the pvp haters start their usual barrage against anyone who even expresses the slightest appreciation of pvp? |
Funny how you only give out part of the information, and then accuse people of being ill informed because they don't know the part you didn't tell them.
I already said I enjoy PvP. But I enjoy it on my terms. When I don't feel like PvPing, I don't feel I should have to have it forced upon me because someone else wants to PvP. That isn't hating PvP, that is simply disliking having PvP forced on me whether I want it or not, which most people would consider a reasonable dislike.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
I'm with claws. I like my PvP and PvE separated.
Arc #6015 - Coming Unglued
"A good n00b-sauce is based on a good n00b-roux." - The Masque
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Originally Posted by Charnell
Yeh nice try. If you could have contained your bile for one second and actually thought about it they obviously are going to have the majority pve servers with no open world pvp.
Sounds like the PvE servers would be absolutely perfect for you. No griefing and as much pvp content as you like on your own terms. For example the signature character pvp is perfect for people who just want to have a fairly balanced pvp blast without spending ages grinding out all the best pvp gear as it uses all pre-made characters. |
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Originally Posted by Charnell
Amen to what? An ill informed and half *** rant against open world pvp? Why even bother? Just dont play on a pvp server. Problem solved?
Oh is this the point the pvp haters start their usual barrage against anyone who even expresses the slightest appreciation of pvp? |
And frankly I fail to see what's 'half ***' about his post. While he may have been mistaken about open PvP being ubiquitous, that doesn't make his objections to the *concept* any less valid. Just because you obviously disagree doesn't mean he's wrong.
Funny part is, his post is directed against a particular syle of PvP and class of pvpers (which definitely do exist) and he specifically mentions that he occasionally PvPs and enjoys it, and the response is to start ranting about 'pvp haters'? Think about that.
@MuonNeutrino
Student, Gamer, Altaholic, and future Astronomer.
This is what it means to be a tank!
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Thanks for making...yaww...me...yawwwwwwwwwwn.
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Originally Posted by Aura_Familia
yawwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn
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I would give up the notion of PvP forever if we could have NPC costumed heroes and villains with better AIs that could fight like players.
"Samual_Tow - Be disappointed all you want, people. You just don't appreciate the miracles that are taking place here."
I wish there a pseudo-PvP by proxy...
Here's how it would work - you designate your toon to be a nemesis for other toons (maybe limited to one other toon, maybe not...), via flag, pact...something. Then, during the other player's missions, sometimes 'you' show up. But it's not the 'real' you; instead an AI-controlled you, similiar to when you fight your 'Shadow-Self' in various current missions.
Heck, maybe it could even be set up where your AI-Self is involved in some of the repeatable missions; you're the one robbing (or saving) the bank. I'd throw some of my toons into that pool for sure...
Such a feature, while not affecting you directly, would, I think, make you feel more immersed and part of the CoX world, which is just plain cool.
And frankly, I play a Villain and a Hero routinely, and I RP them as enemies - if they could actually meet and fight via the above feature, that'd be awesome.
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Ok fair enough but I did post originally in response to Claws making claims about the game> So yeah I expected him to have at least a rough idea about the game. Travel suppression is quite an esoteric point to be familiar with compared to big issues such as open pvp. And seriously how many major MMOs have open pvp across the board? I know there are some but they are either ancient or niche.|
Originally Posted by Muon_Neutrino
Before you blow your stack any further, re-read what you wrote originally. If someone didn't know any more about whatever game you're talking about than what you said, I fail to see how they could be faulted for reaching the same conclusions that ClawsandEffect did. You wrote that 'the open world PvP adds a lot of excitement' and that 'pvp is a huge part of the game' - I'm not sure how an otherwise uninformed reader is supposed to reason from that to 'they obviously are going to have the majority pve servers with no open world pvp'.
And frankly I fail to see what's 'half ***' about his post. While he may have been mistaken about open PvP being ubiquitous, that doesn't make his objections to the *concept* any less valid. Just because you obviously disagree doesn't mean he's wrong. Funny part is, his post is directed against a particular syle of PvP and class of pvpers (which definitely do exist) and he specifically mentions that he occasionally PvPs and enjoys it, and the response is to start ranting about 'pvp haters'? Think about that. |
And I can empathize with every single point about open PvP but it hasnt been that bad in beta and I know there is always the option of the pve servers.
And as far as I am concerned any superhero based game with heros and villains without a healthy pvp element is always going to fall short of what I personally expect from a superhero based game.
And playing in 4v4 matches as batman fighting harley quinn, bane, etc in arkham asylum is pretty damn SUPERHERO! :P
You want real PvP?
How about you make PvP IO drops EASY to get. Instead of costing Billions each you make them COMMON.
How about you let US design PvP in an AE style setting where we choose maps, objectives and power uses.
How about you drop all the cobbled on dreck and revert it back to where all your powers work in PvP zones exactly like they do in the PvE world. Then you give us PvP MISSIONS where we have Team A versus Team B in Capture the Flag, Escort, Mayhem, and Elimination rounds.
Man, what a mess was made of what could have been wonderful.
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Kid, I like PvP when it actually works. Old PvP, while I sucked fairly bad at it, was at least entertaining. Even now, I can do pretty well with Alpha, because softcapped Bots/Traps with a lot of buffs is nasty whichever way you cut it.|
Originally Posted by Charnell
Amen to what? An ill informed and half *** rant against open world pvp? Why even bother? Just dont play on a pvp server. Problem solved?
Oh is this the point the pvp haters start their usual barrage against anyone who even expresses the slightest appreciation of pvp? |
But there are people out there who PvP purely for the fact of lording over other people, ruining their fun and generally being utter tools. ANY game that has PvP will have them. I run into a metric shite ton on Xbox Live. And I ran into a fair few in zones as well.
'Go to a non-PvP server' is a no-brainer if PvP is always open world; people who want to grief and be tools will go to non-PvP servers for the express purpose of hassling people like us who don't want to partake every single time we log in.
So, no, I'm not a PvP Hater, far from it. But hey, maybe YOU should factor in that not everoyone is going to share your point of view? Practice what you preach, pal.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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Totally. It was said repeatedly at the time. And there was promises of more to come but with the changes being deeply unpopular and causing so much acrimony obviously the devs just decided to never touch pvp again.|
Originally Posted by Infernus_Hades
You want real PvP?
How about you make PvP IO drops EASY to get. Instead of costing Billions each you make them COMMON. How about you let US design PvP in an AE style setting where we choose maps, objectives and power uses. How about you drop all the cobbled on dreck and revert it back to where all your powers work in PvP zones exactly like they do in the PvE world. Then you give us PvP MISSIONS where we have Team A versus Team B in Capture the Flag, Escort, Mayhem, and Elimination rounds. Man, what a mess was made of what could have been wonderful. |
The changes were short sighted and stupid. All we needed were a few tweaks, say the mez change and the defence thing. And some pvp content would have gone a really long way.
But no, hurpy durpy castle had a crazy brainwave of just suppressing everything. To "even" the playing field. And look at how effective it was. We now have the most unblanced and unfair pvp in the history of the game.
The fact that sharks have never been balanced since the revamp shows the devs will never touch pvp again.
And maybe it isnt everyones cup of tea but healthy pvp can serve as end game content for a lot of people.
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You are the source of 100% of the information I have read regarding PvP in that game. When I responded to your first post, that information did not include the existence of PvE servers. |
Originally Posted by Charnell
Ok fair enough but I did post originally in response to Claws making claims about the game> So yeah I expected him to have at least a rough idea about the game. Travel suppression is quite an esoteric point to be familiar with compared to big issues such as open pvp. And seriously how many major MMOs have open pvp across the board? I know there are some but they are either ancient or niche.
And I can empathize with every single point about open PvP but it hasnt been that bad in beta and I know there is always the option of the pve servers. |
I wasn't making any claims about the game, I was responding directly to what you said about it. I freely admit that I know next to nothing about it, so what you said was all I had to go on.
I got 3 pieces of information from your post, one of which is opinion, and 2 that could be construed as fact, they are:
1) PvP in the game is good. (opinion)
2) There is open world PvP (assuming this is fact)
3) PvP is a big part of the game. (could be either, but it is presented as fact and I have no grounds to assume it is not)
Given the combination of open world PvP and PvP being a big part of the game, and lacking any further information, it is perfectly logical to conclude that the game consists of a lot of PvP that takes place out in the open.
My post was in response to that conclusion. If that post was ill-informed, I have only the source of my information to blame.
I do not like open world PvP, and it is highly unlikely I will ever change my opinion of that. I dislike it primarily because of the behavior that it brings out of people. I'm guessing it won't be long after that game is released until some of the obnoxious PvPers figure out the best method of killing other players and start hanging out around highly traveled locations to kill unsuspecting newbies.
I am well aware that not all PvPers are just out to pwn nubs, but enough of them are that open world PvP will never be something I'm interested in.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
it was castles idea for the drop rates...
if you dont like it the way it is you should send him a private message on the forums...oops wait..sorry nevermind :P
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Ok I apologize! Sorry.|
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
You are the source of 100% of the information I have read regarding PvP in that game. When I responded to your first post, that information did not include the existence of PvE servers.
I wasn't making any claims about the game, I was responding directly to what you said about it. I freely admit that I know next to nothing about it, so what you said was all I had to go on. I got 3 pieces of information from your post, one of which is opinion, and 2 that could be construed as fact, they are: 1) PvP in the game is good. (opinion) 2) There is open world PvP (assuming this is fact) 3) PvP is a big part of the game. (could be either, but it is presented as fact and I have no grounds to assume it is not) Given the combination of open world PvP and PvP being a big part of the game, and lacking any further information, it is perfectly logical to conclude that the game consists of a lot of PvP that takes place out in the open. My post was in response to that conclusion. If that post was ill-informed, I have only the source of my information to blame. I do not like open world PvP, and it is highly unlikely I will ever change my opinion of that. I dislike it primarily because of the behavior that it brings out of people. I'm guessing it won't be long after that game is released until some of the obnoxious PvPers figure out the best method of killing other players and start hanging out around highly traveled locations to kill unsuspecting newbies. I am well aware that not all PvPers are just out to pwn nubs, but enough of them are that open world PvP will never be something I'm interested in. |
Moving on :P
Well I dont want to turn this thread into a DC thread but it is a fact that there will shortly be only two superhero MMOs worth talking about. One has very little and low quality pvp content and the other has imo decent quality and a large amount of pvp content.
But just for reference to the other superhero game and its pvp content-
There has been 2 servers I could play on, pve and pvp.
The only difference i have seen is the pvp server has open world pvp. There are two very large persistant cities and you are free to go wherever you please within them. And as you said this does leave the door wide open for griefing of lowbies by higher characters. You can level quite quickly though in fairness. And I will be interested to see how it all works out in a live situation. But as I said its only a minor annoyance atm. And it is quite fun to be in a quest area and bump into a villain of similar level and have a scrap.
Both servers have instanced pvp you queue for. One set of instances is all pre-made signature heroes and villains you can unlock to use through gameplay.
And there are arenas you use your own toon with. Both have different maps that have control points and objectives. I dont know if there are straight deathmatch type instances but I havent seen any.
The actual combat mechanics are heavily action based. You have powers and a weapon. Combat is usually a mix of firing powers and attacking with your weapon. There is only two attack buttons, melee and ranged attack. And you open up combos that you chain up for different types of effects, stuns, kb, etc.
You dont just lock on a target and button mash and movement while fighting is actively encouraged by the system.
Skill and reflexes do serve you well and it is not that uncommon to see lowbies beating higher levels. I personally took down griefers +5 to my level quite a few times.
I am not listing this info to disparage CoH. Both games are actually quite different and I dont see why both cant live happily side by side as the two main superhero games. Some people will prefer CoH for that classic mmo mechanic and dislike the other for its heavy action based mechanic. And vice versa obviously.
I would love for CoH to have even just a little of that pvp content though. AE options would be nice. Even a queue system for some sort of objective based content. Even just something like safeguard/mayhems expanded into a pvp instance.
And I know that this takes up development time but realistically it is all far from impossible. And really a lot of the content is already out there or easily possible. I know for a fact that AE missions could be pvp enabled. I remember a few times in Prae being on a mixed team and going into a mission only for some of us to get flagged as enemies.
I'm a casual PvP'er... or was... haven't PvP'ed since the rules changes... not because I dislike the new rules, but because there's too much other stuff to do to waste my time learning the alternate mechanics and becoming adept at them... particularly for an experience thats' sub-par.
But, when I do look at the PvP system, I DO see what the devs were hoping to attain. The game's original PvE-centric mechanics of their powersets did create MASSIVE numeric holes that could be exploited by an avid PvP'er, and it was hoped that, while min/maxing could still be done with the new system, the difference in plateaus between the "min/maxers" and the average build would be much MUCH less...
The devs thought that the massive rebalancing was necessary to attract new blood... because, as they came out and stated, the numbers of PvP participants was too marginal to warrant much dev time. To justify a revamp, you needed to bring in more participants... so that became the focus of their revamp.
Unfortunately, that isn't what made PvP a sub-par experience. It was the other player in the PvP equation. I could have the most imbalanced experience in the world.... ganked 30-40 times in one night, but if my adversaries were enjoyable, I rated it a great night. I could also have a zone event where I won more than I lost, but just found the experience lousy as hell because of a few people in the zone. Just like real-life sports, some opponents just sap all the fun out of play, whether you beat them or not. I was thick skinned enough to stay for the few real good experiences, but MANY were not.
Every MMO out there does it wrong-- PvP will always fail (after a brief "honeymoon" while everyone is still learning and everything is fresh and new) in open-world or open-zone PvP. If you have 20 excellent FUN PvP'ers and 1 ******, that 1 ****** will spoil the fun for enough people that you numbers will quickly degrade. There are other things to do that don't have the aggravation.
If you want PvP to remain robust, you need to work on giving the player a way to eliminate the "unfun" without leaving the zone / logging in to another server. Until you do that, PvP will never retain the population necessary to remain a viable part of the game.
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PvP works well when players are limited in choices so it can be balanced but PvP with individual builds is problematic. I have never felt City was built well for PvPing even though it logically fits for heroes vs villains.
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Originally Posted by Charnell
Ok fair enough but I did post originally in response to Claws making claims about the game> So yeah I expected him to have at least a rough idea about the game. Travel suppression is quite an esoteric point to be familiar with compared to big issues such as open pvp. And seriously how many major MMOs have open pvp across the board? I know there are some but they are either ancient or niche.
And I can empathize with every single point about open PvP but it hasnt been that bad in beta and I know there is always the option of the pve servers. And as far as I am concerned any superhero based game with heros and villains without a healthy pvp element is always going to fall short of what I personally expect from a superhero based game. And playing in 4v4 matches as batman fighting harley quinn, bane, etc in arkham asylum is pretty damn SUPERHERO! :P |
total kick to the gut
This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.
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The question that has to be asked is: Would the potential return from completely revamping how PvP in this game works be worth the time, money, and manpower that would need to be invested in it? |
Originally Posted by Charnell
And I know that this takes up development time but realistically it is all far from impossible. And really a lot of the content is already out there or easily possible. I know for a fact that AE missions could be pvp enabled. I remember a few times in Prae being on a mixed team and going into a mission only for some of us to get flagged as enemies. |
At this point, probably not. Revamping the PvP system would take a huge amount of resources, and it would really only benefit the few people that still PvP here. I kind of doubt the people that left when they changed it kept up on what's going on here nowadays. So, they would end up doing a huge amount of work for a very small subset of the population. Old PvP was just as broken as new PvP, only in different ways.
CoH might have had good PvP if the game had been designed with it in mind from the beginning. But it wasn't. It is nearly impossible to balance PvP in a game where the available character types are so vastly different from each other. What happens with it is a few character types, and sometimes even powersets of those character types end up being way better than others. And anyone NOT playing one of those characters is at a HUGE disadvantage in a fight.
Since CoH PvP was added as an afterthought, no consideration was given when character powers were designed as to how those powers would work when opposing each other.
When you pitted a Mind/Fire Dominator against a Claws/Regen scrapper the way it was before the i13 changes, the scrapper lived only as long as his breakfrees lasted. If he ran out or got caught without any, Telekinesis was basically an "I Win" button, since that Dominator could keep you permanently held as long as his endurance held out for. And that's just one example of the kinds of things you get when you shoehorn PvP into a combat system that wasn't designed with it in mind. There are plenty more powers that made a fight very one sided that I'm not thinking of right now.
Changing PvP again at this point would be very similar to painting a condemned house. Sure, the house might look better, but no one lives there anymore.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
I predict that the devs will address PvP issues again at the same time that they give some love to Super Group Bases.
I'm also still waiting for the release of the ColecoVision Super Game Module and Duke Nukem Forever. Any day now!!!
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Originally Posted by Chase_Arcanum
I'm a casual PvP'er... or was... haven't PvP'ed since the rules changes... not because I dislike the new rules, but because there's too much other stuff to do to waste my time learning the alternate mechanics and becoming adept at them... particularly for an experience thats' sub-par.
But, when I do look at the PvP system, I DO see what the devs were hoping to attain. The game's original PvE-centric mechanics of their powersets did create MASSIVE numeric holes that could be exploited by an avid PvP'er, and it was hoped that, while min/maxing could still be done with the new system, the difference in plateaus between the "min/maxers" and the average build would be much MUCH less... The devs thought that the massive rebalancing was necessary to attract new blood... because, as they came out and stated, the numbers of PvP participants was too marginal to warrant much dev time. To justify a revamp, you needed to bring in more participants... so that became the focus of their revamp. Unfortunately, that isn't what made PvP a sub-par experience. It was the other player in the PvP equation. I could have the most imbalanced experience in the world.... ganked 30-40 times in one night, but if my adversaries were enjoyable, I rated it a great night. I could also have a zone event where I won more than I lost, but just found the experience lousy as hell because of a few people in the zone. Just like real-life sports, some opponents just sap all the fun out of play, whether you beat them or not. I was thick skinned enough to stay for the few real good experiences, but MANY were not. Every MMO out there does it wrong-- PvP will always fail (after a brief "honeymoon" while everyone is still learning and everything is fresh and new) in open-world or open-zone PvP. If you have 20 excellent FUN PvP'ers and 1 ******, that 1 ****** will spoil the fun for enough people that you numbers will quickly degrade. There are other things to do that don't have the aggravation. If you want PvP to remain robust, you need to work on giving the player a way to eliminate the "unfun" without leaving the zone / logging in to another server. Until you do that, PvP will never retain the population necessary to remain a viable part of the game. |
This was a well thought-out post. In this game, it's not really the one bad player that sours PvP, that I can handle, it's the roving gank-sqauds that ruin it. They roll through the zones slaughtering anyone they see as an easy target, while scolding you for not having the forethought to bring an entire team with you. I had suggested a while back that your stats should increase based on the number number of opponents you are fighting at one time. What would also work is simply making it clear that PvP is a team sport. A big sign that states that you will be attacked by unequal numbers upon entering, but I think both ideas would have the opposite effect of repelling PvP-curious players.
"Samual_Tow - Be disappointed all you want, people. You just don't appreciate the miracles that are taking place here."
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Yeah, it seems since the Devs don't like to take any features away, they simply let them atrophy to the point of insignificance.
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Originally Posted by Coyote_Seven
I predict that the devs will address PvP issues again at the same time that they give some love to Super Group Bases.
I'm also still waiting for the release of the ColecoVision Super Game Module and Duke Nukem Forever. Any day now!!! |
"Samual_Tow - Be disappointed all you want, people. You just don't appreciate the miracles that are taking place here."
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Obvious link is obvious.|
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
Open world PvP is, more often than not, a breeding ground for the worst kind of gamer there is: the people who delight in going out of their way to ruin someone else's good time.
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--NT
They all laughed at me when I said I wanted to be a comedian.
But I showed them, and nobody's laughing at me now!
If I became a red name, I would be all "and what would you mere mortals like to entertain me with today, mu hu ha ha ha!" ~Arcanaville
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Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
The question that has to be asked is: Would the potential return from completely revamping how PvP in this game works be worth the time, money, and manpower that would need to be invested in it?
At this point, probably not. Revamping the PvP system would take a huge amount of resources, and it would really only benefit the few people that still PvP here. I kind of doubt the people that left when they changed it kept up on what's going on here nowadays. So, they would end up doing a huge amount of work for a very small subset of the population. Old PvP was just as broken as new PvP, only in different ways. CoH might have had good PvP if the game had been designed with it in mind from the beginning. But it wasn't. It is nearly impossible to balance PvP in a game where the available character types are so vastly different from each other. What happens with it is a few character types, and sometimes even powersets of those character types end up being way better than others. And anyone NOT playing one of those characters is at a HUGE disadvantage in a fight. Since CoH PvP was added as an afterthought, no consideration was given when character powers were designed as to how those powers would work when opposing each other. When you pitted a Mind/Fire Dominator against a Claws/Regen scrapper the way it was before the i13 changes, the scrapper lived only as long as his breakfrees lasted. If he ran out or got caught without any, Telekinesis was basically an "I Win" button, since that Dominator could keep you permanently held as long as his endurance held out for. And that's just one example of the kinds of things you get when you shoehorn PvP into a combat system that wasn't designed with it in mind. There are plenty more powers that made a fight very one sided that I'm not thinking of right now. Changing PvP again at this point would be very similar to painting a condemned house. Sure, the house might look better, but no one lives there anymore. |
My point has been and remains - why do the Devs need to waste THEIR TIME?
If they let US have an AE style tool where we can choose:
1) map
2) max number of players - looking at other game I would set it at 8 per team like we have now.
3) Power usage - allow US to decide how the powers act
4) Missions:
Capture the flag - ever play Dustbowl in Halflife? One team defends one attacks you get the flag it moves to the next floor/map fastest team wins the challenge
Escort person/case/other hero - same Idea you get them out fastest team wins deaths add time penalty
Mayhem where one team seeks to destroy an object and one team defends - then you switch and fastest team wins the challenge
Elimination, Timed defeat - you set a timer and who ever ganks the other team the most in the time given wins.
This is ALL quite easily within the boundaries of this game. The devs need only supply the tools and let US figure out the balance and what is popular. I used to play Soldier of Fortune on CAL leagues and it was simple and elegant PvP.
Got a Bubble defender who can't shoot his way out of a paperbag? Well guess what - he CAN buble the Flag so it can't be captured without defeating him! To me the possibilities of this game are incredible and completely unused. We have not used the dynamics or any strategies that could be used considering the combined powers in this game.
Look back at the first Hamidon raids where all rad teams planned it out and did it. Look at the twists and stretching of the games boundaries we used in the Sewer trial and every other Tf in this game. We the players can do things the devs never imagined as the Monkie farms go to prove.
I KNOW that WE the PLAYERS could build a PvP that would surpass anything on the market.
If I want to PvP, I go where there is PvP. I do NOT want it forced upon me against my will.
I still occasionally PvP here and enjoy it, precisely because when I decide I've had enough PvP, I can leave the zone and know that I'm done with PvP, instead of deciding I've had enough PvP and having to log out of the game because I have no choice in whether I PvP or not.
Open world PvP is, more often than not, a breeding ground for the worst kind of gamer there is: the people who delight in going out of their way to ruin someone else's good time. As I said, I enjoy PvP, but I enjoy it when I WANT to enjoy it, I don't want to have to fight off a bunch of trash talking jacktards just to go from point A to point B.