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Alabama?
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Because just playing in the Arena in an open warfare battle gets old FAST. |
Originally Posted by Zombie Man
Arena matches can:
Have no travel suppression Have Max Recovery if they want Diminishing Returns or not Heal Decay or not Pool or No Pool Powers Travel Powers or not Use of Arena Temp Powers or not Normal Insp/No Insp/Sm Insp only/Med or Sm Insp Only Choice of Map Any permutation of level, timing, number of kills, types of teams So, what is it that PvPers are still waiting for? For Zones to go back to 'normal'? Zones have always been a joke even before The Big Changes simply because there's no control over number of participants which makes 'balance' an impossibility there. |
Capture the flag?
Escort?
Mayhem?
Other types of PvP?
Hello!
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Understandable. I've been advocating with the Devs for years for real PvP games.|
Originally Posted by Infernus_Hades
Because just playing in the Arena in an open warfare battle gets old FAST.
Capture the flag? Escort? Mayhem? Other types of PvP? Hello! |
But, with all those options for arena, are there any mechanical reverts that PvPers are still waiting for? Can't pre-I13 be recreated in the Arena right now?
Speeding Through New DA Repeatables || Spreadsheet o' Enhancements || Zombie Skins: better skins for these forums || Guide to Guides
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Are you listening to us or just ranting?|
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
I guess you're right, it is the devs' fault.
Please forgive me for doubting the wisdom of some random people on the internet that are still pissed off about something that happened in a video game over 2 years ago. You're still here, and still complaining about it. And I see a number of PvPers routinely calling the devs stupid, lazy, and incompetent. I don't know about you, but if people called ME stupid, lazy, and incompetent all the time, I'd probably be a little slow to do what they want too. So go ahead, blame the devs for everything that's wrong with PvP. I'll check back in a while and see if treating them like crap over it got you anywhere. |
They completely changed the game in PvP - they did it and it was NOT what the players who were DOING PvP wanted.
In an attempt to vanilla the PvP so anyone could nip in and play - they gutted it.
Now I see people whining that the players using PvP IO's are to blame????? For using IO's the DEVS created? No the PvP IO's should be COMMON drops. That is how you make it popular - not making it a miracle to get one.
How about in a TF an option was - Choose PvP IO and let you CHOOSE from a LIST the one you want. No this sits directly with the Devs and the choices made. I know the apologists come out and point fingers at the players for a broken system - they didn't want and were forced to play or leave.
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As far as I know, no. You can't turn off inherent resistances, you can't revert the mez system changes, slows still don't slow, and powers still do drastically different damages than in PvE.
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Originally Posted by Zombie Man
Understandable. I've been advocating with the Devs for years for real PvP games.
But, with all those options for arena, are there any mechanical reverts that PvPers are still waiting for? Can't pre-I13 be recreated in the Arena right now? |
@MuonNeutrino
Student, Gamer, Altaholic, and future Astronomer.
This is what it means to be a tank!
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Definitely not. I think a lot of PvPers expected this based on what was described, and the ones I knew had a fair degree of satisfaction with the idea, but it's not what was delivered.
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Originally Posted by Zombie Man
Can't pre-I13 be recreated in the Arena right now?
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Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
Now we play the game I like to call 'good idea...very bad implementation'!
That list mostly includes:
ED and GDN: Ok in the long run this was actually a good idea...it wasn't so much the implementation but the fact Jack had as much social skills when talking to players about the game as a dead fish, the bad publicity spiraled out of control and instead of City of Villains adding a very healthy chunk of players...it merely made up for the loss of those that left after the culmination of the nerfs.
City of Villains: Ok hear me out on this one, the idea of CoV and CoV itself are good...it's the whole 'expanshalone' rubbish they pulled with it. It split the player base (if it had been merely an expansion people would be more likely to flit between the two) and the villain character is never anything more than a mook, which cheesed a lot of people off as did the truly terrible Operation: DESTINY Arachnos storyline throughout the whole expansion. So good idea...implemented horribly.
The AE: Huge waste of time, the ratings system is terrible, they'll be forever one step behind people exploiting it to farm XP and if they kill XP in the AE completely the place will be more of a ghost town than it already is. When Positron announced the 20,000 stories were made...how many of those were Rikti comm farms...honestly?
Positron then didn't do himself any favours by appearing to throw his toys out of the pram in a post addressing the abuse and it wasn't until a second post (Conspiracy theory: Actually written by War Witch) that he managed to just about calm things down.
For all the hassle it's cost them so far and is going to cost them in the future...it wasn't worth it. All for an additional bullet point on the back of the (non-existent in the EU) box. It didn't warrant it's own issue and it certain as hell didn't warrant it's own boxed edition.
Original PvP design: "Eh...that'll do...who cares about what happens later" pretty much sums up the choice. Lazy, half-hearted implementation of something that...to be fair...wasn't really needed in the first place.
Issue 13 PvP design: "We must be getting the casuals!" Stinks of orders from 'on high' (i.e. not from within Paragon Studios) and poor old PS being forced to put through the changes whether the players liked them or not all for the purpose of having the new PvP supposedly bring in more subscribers...which failed to materialise and infact lost them probably 10-20k subscribers (if that to be fair...). Despite promises that they would 'look into it' the fact it actually netted them negative revenue (it cost them more than they got back out of it in terms of subscribers) the execs decided that all work on PvP would stop.
Especially since the new expansion pack was being devised.
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Uhhh ...|
Originally Posted by Cyber_naut
Secondly, trying to blame players for changes that devs made is simply ridiculous, especially when players made countless good suggestions that were completely ignored, and raised rational objections for the ridiculous changes that were implemented anyway.
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I didn't /just/ blame the players (PvPers, really). I simply said they were a part of the problem, along with the devs, the community reps, and NCSoft / Paragon. I didn't assign % values to the blame, either. But, surely, players should shoulder some of the blame.
As for everything else?
PvP has already seen massive investment. And nothing's stuck so far with more than a minuscule minority of players. Not the Arena. Bases suck (god-awful implementation, mind you). The minigames in the PvP zones are something less than popular.
I think that's what everything comes down to: nothing with CoX PvP sticks. And it takes a LARGE investment in dev time and money to have functioning PvP. It's not set 'n' forget like releasing a new TF, or the way Inventions and the Market have (mostly) been. PvP /requires/ frequent balance passes (start with the premise that every primary / secondary combo should be viable -- no LoLbuilds).
Past performance would seem to indicate that the only way people will take in an interest in PvP would be with fantastic rewards. And, at the point, PvP would be about farming, not PvP. For the people who love the thrill of the fight ... there wouldn't be any. Just a lot of shrieking that fighting's getting in the way of farming.
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At this point I would say offer lvl 50 pvp only toons with unlimited access to COMMON IOs. That way everyone can just hop on and play.|
Originally Posted by BurningChick
Uhhh ...
I didn't /just/ blame the players (PvPers, really). I simply said they were a part of the problem, along with the devs, the community reps, and NCSoft / Paragon. I didn't assign % values to the blame, either. But, surely, players should shoulder some of the blame. As for everything else? PvP has already seen massive investment. And nothing's stuck so far with more than a minuscule minority of players. Not the Arena. Bases suck (god-awful implementation, mind you). The minigames in the PvP zones are something less than popular. I think that's what everything comes down to: nothing with CoX PvP sticks. And it takes a LARGE investment in dev time and money to have functioning PvP. It's not set 'n' forget like releasing a new TF, or the way Inventions and the Market have (mostly) been. PvP /requires/ frequent balance passes (start with the premise that every primary / secondary combo should be viable -- no LoLbuilds). Past performance would seem to indicate that the only way people will take in an interest in PvP would be with fantastic rewards. And, at the point, PvP would be about farming, not PvP. For the people who love the thrill of the fight ... there wouldn't be any. Just a lot of shrieking that fighting's getting in the way of farming. |
That and revert the I13 changes.
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
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To be honest, Arena probably has had the most sustained player involvement, given they went live in Issue 4 and have been used by the same players pretty much ever since.|
Originally Posted by BurningChick
PvP has already seen massive investment. And nothing's stuck so far with more than a minuscule minority of players. Not the Arena. Bases suck (god-awful implementation, mind you). The minigames in the PvP zones are something less than popular. |
Your point is well-taken though, that a miniscule portion of the playerbase participates in these activities overall.
Questions about the game, either side? /t @Neuronia or @Neuronium, with your queries!
168760: A Death in the Gish. 3 missions, 1-14. Easy to solo.
Infinity Villains
Champion, Pinnacle, Virtue Heroes
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You did say that the only way the drop rates would be made higher if the ios were bind on pickup. Something like that cba to search for the post.|
Originally Posted by Fyndhal
Point of fact: Castle had nothing to do with drop rates.
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EDIT: Nvm
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showt...75#post2628075
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I'd like to take this opportunity to remind folks that this system is purposefully difficult to farm. Your BEST chance of getting a PVP IO drop is to have 10+ players fighting one another; either in zones or in arenas. The only way I'd be comfortable increasing the drop rates is if we could make then Bind on Pickup, tech which we don't currently have. |
"The only way i'd be"
Sure does make it sound that you had some form of control of the drop rates.
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This. The game was designed for teams, they should have stuck to team games imo. Whoever suggested letting the players create PvP games in the architect had the right idea.|
Originally Posted by Infernus_Hades
Because just playing in the Arena in an open warfare battle gets old FAST.
Capture the flag? Escort? Mayhem? Other types of PvP? Hello! |
The game was/is my first MMO. Before that I was a big FPS player, I should have been an easy customer for the PvP game. Let me battle another team in Save-the-Citizen!
This is a song about a super hero named Tony. Its called Tony's theme.
Jagged Reged: 23/01/04
Now that Castle is gone, I am very optimistic about the future of CoX PVP.