Trapdoor is getting harder.

Actually, I had less trouble with Honoree than with Trapdoor in most cases. You can totally solo-pull Honoree with any ranged attack (Blackwand/Nem Staff vet power for my scrapper) without fiddling with the Rikti or their portals.

The Honoree himself isn't difficult, and I didn't find Holtz (the text calls her "he" but she's using a female model) hard to kill, either. I even stepped in and wiped out all the portal, then proceeded to smack down what must have been around 80 Rikti that had spawned by that point.

What I was trying to say is that every time someone in Beta complained he couldn't fight the portals, he was told "You don't have to! And if you try to and can't, you're stupid!" This would all turn on its head if the mission were changed to where you DO have to fight the portals. Which it just might.

Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

No, you'd just have to find a different solution. (IE: kill the portals quickly)

Or what? Restart the mission? You may or may not have seen the Beta and early Live threads on the subject, but this stands to invalidate a LOT of people's moral high ground.

Pretty much where I stand. I know it doesn't make sense narratively, but then so fix the narrative and don't let the thing go through a full Beta cycle and how long of Live when this was being talked about since the very beginning.

Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

Wow, a helluva lot of people are gonna disagree with that one.
Like, potentially a lot of people playing certain ATs such as Blasters, Corrs, PBs, anything with range that still goes squish...

Originally Posted by Zwillinger GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.

Originally Posted by Captain_Photon NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

I know right? I guess the devs shouldn't have given us snipes then... :P

25% for the tier ones.

All I can say is that I've done it on low damage characters (on crappy IO/SO builds). Yes, some were a bit of a struggle. It was fun. and without Shivs or anything of the sort for what it's worth.

You were maybe. Haven't heard a good counterargument except for 'I don't wanna'. Buy a backup radio temp off the market (or whatever it's called) That'll get you a boss, they help loads.

The point is to do it WITH someone else, not have it done for you. But making stuff easier or dropping the mission does prove how incarnate worthy you are? It's a dumb argument anyway.

Then do it another time, or be a social butterfly and reach out a little. Really this must be the poorest argument ever to balance content around.

I'm well aware of that.

I play corruptors mainly.

Yes, please.

Edit: It just annoys me. I've been doing a lot of TF's the past weeks and there's always some 'uber awesome dude' who runs ahead of the team soloing spawns and whatnot. But then everytime we run into a great encounter (the Vindicators on LRSF, final room LGTF, platform in 3rd mission ITF) those same guys insist on pulling, totally breaking up the fun. Those encounters are great to charge in as a team fighting dozens of foes at once. You want to feel 'heroic' or 'epic' or whatever. Well charge in.

All the TFs I lead are run that way, most of the time PuGs on first come, first served principle, no special AT pruning. I never fail a TF.*

*Exception for Barracuda, since without a MM/defender OR a decent amount of debuffs Reichsy cheats.

If you can survive the alpha from 25+ (the first time) Rikti. After the first attack, you'll easily end up with over 100 Rikti spawned in the area where the 4 portals are by the time you get back. With Honoree and Holtz right in the middle of them. Good luck clearing all the Rikti and the portals out with half your endurance and Honoree psychically and physically slapping you around.

Just want to point out, since a lot of people don't seem to know, that you can get a temp power of the vanguard crafting table that clears the Curse of Weariness. 50 V. merits

Oh, it's not that bad.

The aggro cap is 17, so you'll only be drawing fire from 17 Rikti at a time if you happen to aggro one of those groups.



(That's not much of a consolation, is it?)

I've teamed twice to beat up Trapdoor and it makes the mission trivial in the extreme. It's only fun solo.

This is the reason people pull and all the usual tactics, in a nut shell.

AVs aren't tactical challenges, for the most part. They don't require clever thinking, or puzzle methods.
Their just a big sack of HP, regen and mez resistance with stupidly high accuracy and damage that cheat. The LRSF final mission made me unbelievably frustrated and angry when, even after getting your favourite pet, Shivans, and team stacking vengeance on them, we STILL died. Why? Guess what? The Phalanx cheat! Their all set at level 54, and theres 8 of them! How on earth is that a fair, tactical fight for eight villains limited to level 50? Why else do you think people prefer to Nuke them from orbit? Because, out of the whole SF, that one mission is a load of stinking doos.

Originally Posted by Zwillinger GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.

Originally Posted by Captain_Photon NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

Yes, because everyone is psychic and knows before the mission that Holtz is going to have the curse.
Again, NPCs Cheat. Holtz has the powers of a Colonel AND a VG Wizard all mashed into one and cranked up to EB level.

Originally Posted by Zwillinger GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.

Originally Posted by Captain_Photon NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

Especially if your solo. Because it still doesn't seem to be true. I know I was getting charged by a LOT more than 17 when doing that damn mission on Alpha.

Originally Posted by Zwillinger GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.

Originally Posted by Captain_Photon NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

These are acceptable. My question is, why do you insist that one less way to defeat him is a good thing? Suppose next the Devs decide that using pets is a cheesy way to defeat him and gray out those powers? You still can team up and use inspirations, right? So that'd be fine.

For the life of me, I can't understand why you people are being so unbelievably dense about this.

I myself have not had fast summoning of bifurcations. I beat on the real one, and when he summons I jump around and hit tab until I target him. Then I close in on the bifurcation and smash it flat. They don't have a lot of HP.

I wouldn't suggest trying to outdamage him regen; maybe that's why you're so up in arms. You're trying to break through a concrete wall with your fists.

Which is why they 'fixed' it.

... didn't you just say that was your strategy? Look at my first quote. If it's a bad idea (as it's not a mechanic), don't do it.

If everyone I know who actively plays and has done the arc has had no trouble on a variety of characters, squishy and smashy alike, what other excuse do you come to? If some people can do it and some people can't and refuse to believe they can even after whining on the forums, what other reason can you give? There's a difference between "it literally can't be done" and "I can't do it."

BS/Regen Scrapper, Demon/Dark MM, Fire/Kin Corr, Pistol/Kin Corr, Dark/Dark Brute, Fire/Fire Brute, Illusion/Kin Controller, and have heard over my global channels that it's been soloed by Earth/FF Controllers, FF/NRG Defenders, and AR/Traps Corruptors. Hell, my Mercs/Poison buddy even did it, and combining those sets is like shooting yourself in the foot before an olympic sprint.

Hahahahahahaha. Dear sir, I do not have ANY purpled out DPS monsters. I don't. I have characters that are incredibly tough, and I have characters that are very versatile, but I will not put it in writing that I have a 'DPS monster.' I guarantee you someone with my exact build on any other character will probably do more damage than I do because I am a very casual player and I spend a lot of time at the office, not nearly enough time to earn the money/merits for purples.

I posted this thread because, despite having a non-DPS monster array of 50's, I am still able to take on this mission with ease. People who have very fragile characters with very team-centric sets have soloed this mission. I am unable to pick out the problem and I was looking forward to seeing people complain that a bugged mechanic was fixed. Yes, this thread was flamebait, yes this thread was 'QQ more', and now I'm disappointed. I'm disappointed because everyone thinks I'm some elitist who wants everyone to learn to play. This is not the case.

I already posted on how to defeat Trapdoor. Let me rephrase what I said earlier in this thread:

If, after heeding advice from the forums, refusing to team, refusing to use insps, refusing to do anything other than try to kill him alone, I do not know what the problem you're having is and it is not a problem that can be solved by anyone other than yourself.

A much less 'lrn2play' statement, but AGAIN I say, what other conclusion can YOU arrive at? You can say 'bad mission', but other people have no trouble. You can say 'you're some purpled out elitist', but I'll post my build and prove you wrong. You can say 'he should be soloable', but he's part of an arc that is meant to test you. Get help, get insps, or suck it up.

Ditto this.

I have had zero problem with Trapdoor solo. I've defeated him on Scrappers, Brutes, Defenders and Corruptors. Every time I've fought him as a +2 EB and only once did he even come close to defeating me out of seven different variations on the fight. Never once did I use an inspiration to win.*

Despite this, I do not like this change. I do not thank the devs for it. I agree with another post (in another thread) comparing this to the pen-and-paper game master who insists the players solve an encounter "their way" alone. Just because this change has no impact on me does not mean I think it is good.

*I never willingly solo with characters I did not build to be able to solo, and even though I solo ATs that ostensibly are not meant for it, I do so with powersets that facilitate it.

Edit: I just ran it again, and I knocked him into the lava not because I wanted to, but because I have an attack with strong knockback. I actually tried to lead him out, but he stayed down in it. It eventually defeated him without my help at all, while I was trying to get him to leave.

Reichsman cheats because you just can't break his regen without a MM to prevent him going Unstoppable, or a huge wad of dps/regen debuffs. Pulling doesn't change anything about that.

My whole point is, that all those tactics are unnecessary. Because as you say, the AVs are just a big sack of HP. They aren't all that hard for a team. They're boring. That's why I find it fun to charge em while they have some help to spice things up a bit, eh? All you need is one (1) guy who can, buffed up by the team and 3 purples or 3 oranges, withstand an alpha strike (meaning every tanker/brute on SOs) and gather the AV agro. After that you just handle it like any other large mob. Heck I completed an ITF and a LRSF yesterday with 2 scrappers as tank.

I admit that charging the Phalanx isn't for every team though. But it IS very much doable for balanced teams with people who are on the ball, WITHOUT nukes or shivans. I find it a blast to do it that way. Beats the heck out of pulling them and plowing over them 1 or 2 at a time. Yey fun. I'm not saying I do it everytime without wiping, we wiped 3 times on the LRSF yesterday, but it is my preferred method.

Also, Shivans aren't my favourite pet. Hardly ever use em myself. I find them horribly OP. They trivialise every encounter and wouldn't mind if they were removed from the game, same for HVAS. Yea, I know good thing I'm not running this show, eh?

Yea, and that's why I give the tip, that you can get the Curse Breaker temp.
Was just trying to help, you know?

Jesus dude, dogpile a little harder will you.

Ah, see, this is why you think the mission is easy: you ACCIDENTALLY got quite LUCKY in your encounter. That explains quite a bit.

The first and third times I fought him he had the fast respawns. I nearly gave up on the first mission because my AR Blaster (!!) couldn't outdamage him and he was shooting me through oranges and purples. It only took two shots to kill me, too. Fortunately my friend logged on his tank. My Brute could not care less, because he couldn't get through my defenses and Fury meant my PBAoE seriously hurt him.

Fast respawns on a sub-optimal toon means it's just a mission of suck, period. Maybe you should keep things like that in mind when judging others inadequate in their playstyles.