Originally Posted by Arilou
![]() Even Honoree is quite doable, all you have to do is get in there, kill a portal (which should be doable before you die for anyone who picked an attack power at some point) die, go back, and rinse-repeat.
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Trapdoor is getting harder.
Even Honoree is quite doable, all you have to do is get in there, kill a portal (which should be doable before you die for anyone who picked an attack power at some point) die, go back, and rinse-repeat.
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What I was trying to say is that every time someone in Beta complained he couldn't fight the portals, he was told "You don't have to! And if you try to and can't, you're stupid!" This would all turn on its head if the mission were changed to where you DO have to fight the portals. Which it just might.
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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I can defeat Trapdoor on any one of my 50s by going toe-to-toe and running off to defeat each bifurcation and coming back to Trapdoor.
I have also defeated Trapdoor by getting him in the lava.
I have also defeated Trapdoor by pulling.
Pulling is now disallowed.
Why?
Shall we make a list of all the other missions where pulling makes the encounter easier and handing that into the Devs so they can 'fix' that 'exploit'?
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The Honoree himself isn't difficult, and I didn't find Holtz (the text calls her "he" but she's using a female model) hard to kill, either. I even stepped in and wiped out all the portal, then proceeded to smack down what must have been around 80 Rikti that had spawned by that point.
What I was trying to say is that every time someone in Beta complained he couldn't fight the portals, he was told "You don't have to! And if you try to and can't, you're stupid!" This would all turn on its head if the mission were changed to where you DO have to fight the portals. Which it just might. |
"Men strunt �r strunt och snus �r snus
om ock i gyllne dosor.
Och rosor i ett sprucket krus
�r st�ndigt alltid rosor."
No, you'd just have to find a different solution. (IE: kill the portals quickly)
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Pretty much where I stand. I know it doesn't make sense narratively, but then so fix the narrative and don't let the thing go through a full Beta cycle and how long of Live when this was being talked about since the very beginning.
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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I read a helpful tip somewhere, I believe it was in the I19 open beta section. The craftable temp power Envenomed Dagger causes 250% -Regen debuffs, and has an 80' range (for those who don't want to get close enough to smell the guy's breath). I used it on my fight with Ol' Trappy, and it basically let me completely ignore his clones. Whenever you see his green bar stop going down, throw another one at him. You get 30 of 'em.
Hopefully that helps a few people out.
![](http://i813.photobucket.com/albums/zz55/KansasCrawford/City%20of%20Heroes/AtlasCrossing.jpg)
I think pulling is a lame and cheesy 'tactic' that should be countered by the devs as much as possible.
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Like, potentially a lot of people playing certain ATs such as Blasters, Corrs, PBs, anything with range that still goes squish...
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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How many? I could see this working, I guess. Aren't reds, like, 7.5% damage buff, tough?
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This doesn't seem to work, as he summons them very fast, or at least was when I fought him. |
So, "get a Shivan?" I thought we done with this. |
If one is available, and again - how am I proving my strength to the Well if I simply have someone else do it for me? That's my biggest problem with the "get a team" suggestion, |
second only to "suppose there's no-one online that I WANT to team with?" |
@True Metal
Co-leader of Callous Crew SG. Based on Union server.
Wow, a helluva lot of people are gonna disagree with that one.
Like, potentially a lot of people playing certain ATs such as Blasters, Corrs, PBs, anything with range that still goes squish... |
I play corruptors mainly.
@True Metal
Co-leader of Callous Crew SG. Based on Union server.
Shall we make a list of all the other missions where pulling makes the encounter easier and handing that into the Devs so they can 'fix' that 'exploit'? |
Edit: It just annoys me. I've been doing a lot of TF's the past weeks and there's always some 'uber awesome dude' who runs ahead of the team soloing spawns and whatnot. But then everytime we run into a great encounter (the Vindicators on LRSF, final room LGTF, platform in 3rd mission ITF) those same guys insist on pulling, totally breaking up the fun. Those encounters are great to charge in as a team fighting dozens of foes at once. You want to feel 'heroic' or 'epic' or whatever. Well charge in.
All the TFs I lead are run that way, most of the time PuGs on first come, first served principle, no special AT pruning. I never fail a TF.*
*Exception for Barracuda, since without a MM/defender OR a decent amount of debuffs Reichsy cheats.
@True Metal
Co-leader of Callous Crew SG. Based on Union server.
There I was between a rock and a hard place. Then I thought, "What am I doing on this side of the rock?"
Having successfully beaten down Trapdoor with 11 different characters, without pulling him down the corridor, I'm satisfied with the difficulty of the mission. I did pull him into the lava almost every time (the exception being my Ill/Rad controller), but I tend to doubt that the devs will try to get rid of that tactic. Considering that Trapdoor can be knocked down easily enough, and can be held by dominators, I think it's a mission that can be completed by just about any solo-oriented character with reasonable (no Shivans required) preparation, while having a trick that can be challenging enough to make the mission suitable for the Incarnate arc.
And that's the only EB I'm actually fighting in that arc, so I don't mind putting in a little extra effort into it.
If you can survive the alpha from 25+ (the first time) Rikti. After the first attack, you'll easily end up with over 100 Rikti spawned in the area where the 4 portals are by the time you get back. With Honoree and Holtz right in the middle of them. Good luck clearing all the Rikti and the portals out with half your endurance and Honoree psychically and physically slapping you around.
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@True Metal
Co-leader of Callous Crew SG. Based on Union server.
The Alt Alphabet ~ OPC: Other People's Characters ~ Terrific Screenshots of Cool ~ Superhero Fiction
*Exception for Barracuda, since without a MM/defender OR a decent amount of debuffs Reichsy cheats.
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AVs aren't tactical challenges, for the most part. They don't require clever thinking, or puzzle methods.
Their just a big sack of HP, regen and mez resistance with stupidly high accuracy and damage that cheat. The LRSF final mission made me unbelievably frustrated and angry when, even after getting your favourite pet, Shivans, and team stacking vengeance on them, we STILL died. Why? Guess what? The Phalanx cheat! Their all set at level 54, and theres 8 of them! How on earth is that a fair, tactical fight for eight villains limited to level 50? Why else do you think people prefer to Nuke them from orbit? Because, out of the whole SF, that one mission is a load of stinking doos.
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Just want to point out, since a lot of people don't seem to know, that you can get a temp power of the vanguard crafting table that clears the Curse of Weariness. 50 V. merits
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Again, NPCs Cheat. Holtz has the powers of a Colonel AND a VG Wizard all mashed into one and cranked up to EB level.
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Reds.
Or kill his bifurcations. Or any sort of summonable pets you can find all over the place. Or a teammate. |
For the life of me, I can't understand why you people are being so unbelievably dense about this.
The Alt Alphabet ~ OPC: Other People's Characters ~ Terrific Screenshots of Cool ~ Superhero Fiction
Which of those options will help me outdamage the regeneration from his bifurcations?
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I wouldn't suggest trying to outdamage him regen; maybe that's why you're so up in arms. You're trying to break through a concrete wall with your fists.
I agree that pulling him out of his room is not just a cheap, but a contradictory mechanic given how that's explained. The bifurcations are supposed to be Trapdoor resting WHILE he's fighting, so his bifurcations shouldn't need line of sight. They ARE him in a different location sitting down and resting.
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That said, "outdamage his regen" is not a very much better mechanic, and if this has to be a complex gimmick fight, I'd have liked to see a complex gimmick solution to it, not a straight up stat tug of war.
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All I'm saying is that "lrn2ply" is not a good excuse for lazy design.
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How many and what type of characters have you tried it on? Not everyone has optimal characters with uber builds, so EBs of any stripe can cause a problem. My Fire Blaster burned him to the ground without much of an issue and my Brute walked all over him. My AR Blaster had hell of a time (I had to ask a friend to help me) and on my Energy Blaster I had to pull him into the hall in order to defeat him. Despite all the knockback of the Energy powers, I couldn't keep him in the lava and he could easily two-shot me.
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The attitude you're displaying is, "Well, my Purpled-out DPS monster waltzed through the mission so I don't know why you noobs don't know how to play."
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I posted this thread because, despite having a non-DPS monster array of 50's, I am still able to take on this mission with ease. People who have very fragile characters with very team-centric sets have soloed this mission. I am unable to pick out the problem and I was looking forward to seeing people complain that a bugged mechanic was fixed. Yes, this thread was flamebait, yes this thread was 'QQ more', and now I'm disappointed. I'm disappointed because everyone thinks I'm some elitist who wants everyone to learn to play. This is not the case.
I already posted on how to defeat Trapdoor. Let me rephrase what I said earlier in this thread:
If, after heeding advice from the forums, refusing to team, refusing to use insps, refusing to do anything other than try to kill him alone, I do not know what the problem you're having is and it is not a problem that can be solved by anyone other than yourself.
A much less 'lrn2play' statement, but AGAIN I say, what other conclusion can YOU arrive at? You can say 'bad mission', but other people have no trouble. You can say 'you're some purpled out elitist', but I'll post my build and prove you wrong. You can say 'he should be soloable', but he's part of an arc that is meant to test you. Get help, get insps, or suck it up.
My guides:Dark Melee/Dark Armor/Soul Mastery, Illusion Control/Kinetics/Primal Forces Mastery, Electric Armor
"Dark Armor is a complete waste as a tanking set."
![](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v485/HellkatPredator/2012%20Livestreams/ChompAeon.gif)
Personally, I don't see Trapdoor as a challenge and always just beat him down where he stands. But I don't like this change, since it reeks of the devs telling us how to play. We used to get a lot of that and I'm not happy to see it returning.
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I have had zero problem with Trapdoor solo. I've defeated him on Scrappers, Brutes, Defenders and Corruptors. Every time I've fought him as a +2 EB and only once did he even come close to defeating me out of seven different variations on the fight. Never once did I use an inspiration to win.*
Despite this, I do not like this change. I do not thank the devs for it. I agree with another post (in another thread) comparing this to the pen-and-paper game master who insists the players solve an encounter "their way" alone. Just because this change has no impact on me does not mean I think it is good.
*I never willingly solo with characters I did not build to be able to solo, and even though I solo ATs that ostensibly are not meant for it, I do so with powersets that facilitate it.
Edit: I just ran it again, and I knocked him into the lava not because I wanted to, but because I have an attack with strong knockback. I actually tried to lead him out, but he stayed down in it. It eventually defeated him without my help at all, while I was trying to get him to leave.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
This is the reason people pull and all the usual tactics, in a nut shell.
AVs aren't tactical challenges, for the most part. They don't require clever thinking, or puzzle methods. Their just a big sack of HP, regen and mez resistance with stupidly high accuracy and damage that cheat. The LRSF final mission made me unbelievably frustrated and angry when, even after getting your favourite pet, Shivans, and team stacking vengeance on them, we STILL died. Why? Guess what? The Phalanx cheat! Their all set at level 54, and theres 8 of them! How on earth is that a fair, tactical fight for eight villains limited to level 50? Why else do you think people prefer to Nuke them from orbit? Because, out of the whole SF, that one mission is a load of stinking doos. |
My whole point is, that all those tactics are unnecessary. Because as you say, the AVs are just a big sack of HP. They aren't all that hard for a team. They're boring. That's why I find it fun to charge em while they have some help to spice things up a bit, eh? All you need is one (1) guy who can, buffed up by the team and 3 purples or 3 oranges, withstand an alpha strike (meaning every tanker/brute on SOs) and gather the AV agro. After that you just handle it like any other large mob. Heck I completed an ITF and a LRSF yesterday with 2 scrappers as tank.
I admit that charging the Phalanx isn't for every team though. But it IS very much doable for balanced teams with people who are on the ball, WITHOUT nukes or shivans. I find it a blast to do it that way. Beats the heck out of pulling them and plowing over them 1 or 2 at a time. Yey fun. I'm not saying I do it everytime without wiping, we wiped 3 times on the LRSF yesterday, but it is my preferred method.
Also, Shivans aren't my favourite pet. Hardly ever use em myself. I find them horribly OP. They trivialise every encounter and wouldn't mind if they were removed from the game, same for HVAS. Yea, I know good thing I'm not running this show, eh?
@True Metal
Co-leader of Callous Crew SG. Based on Union server.
Yes, because everyone is psychic and knows before the mission that Holtz is going to have the curse.
Again, NPCs Cheat. Holtz has the powers of a Colonel AND a VG Wizard all mashed into one and cranked up to EB level. |
Was just trying to help, you know?
Jesus dude, dogpile a little harder will you.
@True Metal
Co-leader of Callous Crew SG. Based on Union server.
I myself have not had fast summoning of bifurcations. I beat on the real one, and when he summons I jump around and hit tab until I target him. Then I close in on the bifurcation and smash it flat. They don't have a lot of HP.
I wouldn't suggest trying to outdamage him regen; maybe that's why you're so up in arms. You're trying to break through a concrete wall with your fists. |
The first and third times I fought him he had the fast respawns. I nearly gave up on the first mission because my AR Blaster (!!) couldn't outdamage him and he was shooting me through oranges and purples. It only took two shots to kill me, too. Fortunately my friend logged on his tank. My Brute could not care less, because he couldn't get through my defenses and Fury meant my PBAoE seriously hurt him.
Fast respawns on a sub-optimal toon means it's just a mission of suck, period. Maybe you should keep things like that in mind when judging others inadequate in their playstyles.
The Alt Alphabet ~ OPC: Other People's Characters ~ Terrific Screenshots of Cool ~ Superhero Fiction