Would a DPS meter be something we want in CoX?
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Ad Astra,
Posted on: 2010-12-09 18:33 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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This post made me laugh! |
Originally Posted by Castle
I'll be honest here: I *love* DPS meters.
I love using them to figure out rotations. I love using them to predict success/failure for certain encounters (as in: we have the DPS to overcome this situation, so, how did we fail...to the combat logs!) I even love comparing my DPS against others with similar builds to see if my performance is "on par." I don't think a DPS-meter is all that useful of a feature for City-Of, however. Your DPS is far more dependent on who you are teamed with and what your specific job is during an encounter than pretty much anything else. In other games, where roles are far more stringent and DPS tolerances are so tight they hum, they might have a place, but not here. Here, we're Super Powered and it's a pretty good bet that your DPS isn't too low. Unless you have a MAN-build...but that's your own fault. :P |
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Then how about a DPS meter that shows Personal/Team DPS together so that you know how effective you are to your team?
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Originally Posted by Castle
I'll be honest here: I *love* DPS meters....
I don't think a DPS-meter is all that useful of a feature for City-Of, however. Your DPS is far more dependent on who you are teamed with and what your specific job is during an encounter than pretty much anything else. |
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Originally Posted by Sapphic_Neko
It's only useful to stroke your own e-peen.
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Nevermind.
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That is funny! As I was respecing my MAN character last week, I thought to myself how lost to the ages the idea was. And then BOOM a dev is talking about them! Well, making fun of them, but still!|
Originally Posted by Castle
Unless you have a MAN-build...but that's your own fault. :P
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(For those not in the know, the short version of what the MAN concept was: To combat the people whining about this set or that set being underpowered, people made characters that were never allowed to use their primary or secondary powers to show you could rock only using powers that any character in the game had access to.)
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Ow, ow, ow! Ouch, ooh, that stings! That man cuts like glass |
Originally Posted by Castle
Unless you have a MAN-build...but that's your own fault. :P
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Slice like a ninja cut like a razor blade!
I'm in general agreement, though. DPS is just too small a facet to devote a whole meter to, especially when you consider it's impossible to measure outside of breaking down to a dozen special cases.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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All a DPS meter would do is create a new class system in COH. Don't want.
Don't have X DPS or higher? Not allowed on teams.
Can't maintain X DPS? Kicked.
Sorry, seen it too many times in other games, and don't want anything to do with it.
As for knowing who's pulling their weight on a team, that shuold be fairly obvious with decent leadership. Furthermore, if you let everyone do their jobs, and you haven't set the difficulty too high, everyone will be pulling their own weight.
Sure, there are leechers. But they're so few and far between as to be laughable. Deal with them on a one-by-one basis and move on.
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Yes! Minus checking team mates DPS, I don't really care how much DPS they put out because I know its usually lower than mine |
Originally Posted by test_rat
this is a tool that is quite useful in other mmos, and i am wondering if its something we should ask for here?
Think about it, a way to check participation of teamates on a tf! We could go even further and list average dps of a character right on the character info screen. Edit i was just thinking, we can log combat logs right? I don't think it would be that hard to make a log parser? |
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Dark/Shield Build Thread
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But... with inherent Fitness in the latest issue those MAN builds got a huge buff!
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Originally Posted by Castle
I'll be honest here: I *love* DPS meters.
I love using them to figure out rotations. I love using them to predict success/failure for certain encounters (as in: we have the DPS to overcome this situation, so, how did we fail...to the combat logs!) I even love comparing my DPS against others with similar builds to see if my performance is "on par." I don't think a DPS-meter is all that useful of a feature for City-Of, however. Your DPS is far more dependent on who you are teamed with and what your specific job is during an encounter than pretty much anything else. In other games, where roles are far more stringent and DPS tolerances are so tight they hum, they might have a place, but not here. Here, we're Super Powered and it's a pretty good bet that your DPS isn't too low. Unless you have a MAN-build...but that's your own fault. :P |
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If there is to be a DPS meter, it shouldn't be something visible to the entire team. Maybe an option for the Power Attributes display?
@Demobot
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I think Castle just done shot the idea of an If out of the sky.|
Originally Posted by Demobot
If there is to be a DPS meter, it shouldn't be something visible to the entire team. Maybe an option for the Power Attributes display?
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My opinion is that the developers are content to simply allow the community to support this type of data-mining with HeroStats.
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@BEGIN(sarcasm)|
Originally Posted by Zombie Man
Then how about a DPS meter that shows Personal/Team DPS together so that you know how effective you are to your team?
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And DPS is, of course, the only measure of your effectiveness as part of your team.
@END(sarcasm)
I've been grinding my Elec/Elec Dominator to 50, and have been running a disproportionate number of ITFs in the process. I discovered that I'd been playing her wrong for maximum effectiveness. I'd been throwing my Gremlins and Voltaic Sentinel into fights, then hanging back and using my ranged attacks. But I discovered that this is suboptimal; once the tank has aggro, I want to be right in behind the tank so Conductive Aura covers as many of the grouped mobs as possible firing off my attacks -- the Minotaurs and Cyclopes are much less annoying when they're standing there at 0 End wondering where it went.
Do I do any more damage this way? No. By the gauge of DPS, I'm not any more effective as part of the team. Am I contributing more to the team? Absolutely; even though I don't have any heals, everyone else on the team isn't taking as much damage, because the mobs aren't able to use most of their attacks. So there are a lot of factors that make up 'effectiveness on a team', and DPS isn't a particularly good gauge of it.
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It would be a cool feature to see my own DPS, but I wouldn't want other players to see such a meter to avoid the 'you dont do x dps get off my team' issues to some degree.
I am an ebil markeeter and will steal your moneiz ...correction stole your moneiz. I support keeping the poor down because it is impossible to make moneiz in this game.
That'd be pretty funny to be kicked off of a team because you're doing too much DPS. "You can't show me up you young wipper snapper!" /em boot
Virtue: @Santorican
Dark/Shield Build Thread
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Fix'd.
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Originally Posted by Castle
Here, we're Super Powered and it's a pretty good bet that your DPS isn't too low.
Unless you have a Peacebringer...but that's your own fault. :P |
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I just got done with a great example of why DPS can be a horrible measure of contribution to a fight. I was on my katana/elec/weapon scrapper, as part of an STF team facing Ghost Widow.
If I wanted to maximize my DPS, I could close to melee range, run my standard attack chain, and generate around 140 DPS.
Alternatively, I could back off, spam Web Grenade, Shuriken, and Exploding Shuriken, and generate around 40 DPS.
Guess which would help defeat Ghost Widow faster?
I say fix all the bugs...if they do that, then they can make me a dps meter.
aren't we still waiting on an awesome button anyway?
I would love to have a DPS meter on the combat attributes screen, it makes finding my own best DPS chain on my toons a lot easier. Where there is a given "consensus" about what are the best DPS chains on certain power sets, that often requires very high end builds. For me it would be very nice to be able to figure out the best DPS chain with what I have on my in its current build. But only for my own eyes. Like others mentioned being able to see other people's DPS is gonna lead to a lot more jerk reactions and team requirements.
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The more I think about this, the more I agree that a team or public DPS is out of the question. However, a personal DPS meter that only the player can see about they're own character wouldn't be on my "Hell the &^% No and Die in a Fire!!" list.
*runs off to make a FotM MB (Man Build)*
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Why not add the dps meter to the practice dummies in RWZ?
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Yeah, as soon as CoX gets a dps meter.... That's when people start getting booted from teams or never invited to task forces again.
One of WoW's continuing big problems is all the raids and big time team work things require mass tons of DPS (which also requires the best gear) to complete them at an acceptable rate or at all. I don't want to see that happen to CoX as well.
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yeah... can you imagine if another game we both played had a DPS meter? Can you imagine how hard it would have been to find gal or brick drivers? Can you imagine the difficulty in getting anybody to class as an adv. engy or adv. hack? Everybody would be going Uni-Max and diving for gunning spots. |
Originally Posted by Noyjitat
Yeah, as soon as CoX gets a dps meter.... That's when people start getting booted from teams or never invited to task forces again.
One of WoW's continuing big problems is all the raids and big time team work things require mass tons of DPS (which also requires the best gear) to complete them at an acceptable rate or at all. I don't want to see that happen to CoX as well. |
No thanks.
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Originally Posted by je_saist
yeah... can you imagine if another game we both played had a DPS meter? Can you imagine how hard it would have been to find gal or brick drivers? Can you imagine the difficulty in getting anybody to class as an adv. engy or adv. hack? Everybody would be going Uni-Max and diving for gunning spots.
No thanks. |
I miss that game
I've been on hundreds of teams, and I've seen no need for a way to monitor my teammates' DPS. I don't need a legitimate meter to know who's doing what damage, BECAUSE I CAN SEE IT AS IT HAPPENS.
"Damn, I wonder what damage that Fire/Fire Scrapper's doing. Is he contributing enough DPS?"
Conversely, I've seen a lot of slackers and freeloaders in my time. A monitor of such sort would indeed catch bums red-handed. But, in most of my teaming experiences, team leaders don't even really give a damn about slackers; we, the workers, just mashed and made ish happen. Click mission exit button. Whatever.
You know what? Screw all of that, if Mr. Minion is bleeding, shaking and trying to shoot me through the haze of blood loss and dizziness, I'm going to Knockout Blow his **** through the ceiling. Why?
BECAUSE IT LOOKS AWESOME.
Plus I think I'm going to use this:
DPS is only one measure of superness, and unless we want to clutter up the game with meters for each and every type of contribution a character could possibly make to success (teamed or solo), then adding a single meter is pretty pointless.
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