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Really? And the use of 3 powers from our primary set doesn't count as actively participating?|
Originally Posted by Castle
Damage, in itself, is not part of the reward criteria. Otherwise, we'd have situations where Scrapper vs. Defender would almost always yield smaller rewards for the defender.
The guys who built the scoring system have gone to extreme lengths to ensure that everyone who is actively participating gets a fair share of the rewards. |
That's like saying I'm an enegy blaster but using energy bolt, energy blast and nova does not count as actively participating.
Actually, it's worse since I'd be uing 5 powers from my primary, 3 to summon the henches and 2 to buff them.
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Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
English does not borrow from other languages. English follows other languages down dark alleys, hits them over the head, and rifles through their pockets for loose grammar.
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Any chance you could shed some light on what is part of the reward criteria?
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Originally Posted by Castle
Damage, in itself, is not part of the reward criteria.
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Maybe repeatedly using Force Bolt, Repulsion Bomb, and/or a Vet/temp power will make a difference? Perhaps bubbling people who already have bubbles could "game the system." Maybe bubbling NPC allies could trigger getting better rewards?
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Originally Posted by MrsAlphaOne
Alpha is a Merc/FF MM. He bubbles at the beginning of the battle, pops Dispersion bubble and that's all he CAN do to participate. :P He rebubbles when needed..other than that, what else can he do?
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Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
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If someone stands nearby and spams brawl while jumping back and forth around the event location do they get a large reward? |
Originally Posted by Castle
Damage, in itself, is not part of the reward criteria. Otherwise, we'd have situations where Scrapper vs. Defender would almost always yield smaller rewards for the defender.
The guys who built the scoring system have gone to extreme lengths to ensure that everyone who is actively participating gets a fair share of the rewards. |
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Thing is to get the badges, I joined a team, bubbled them up and dismissed my pets. I participated LESS to get the higher tier rewards than when I SOLO'd the events.
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Originally Posted by Castle
Damage, in itself, is not part of the reward criteria. Otherwise, we'd have situations where Scrapper vs. Defender would almost always yield smaller rewards for the defender.
The guys who built the scoring system have gone to extreme lengths to ensure that everyone who is actively participating gets a fair share of the rewards. |
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While possibly true from the game mechanic, I wasn't actually spamhealing, as my guys were rarely taking damage. |
Originally Posted by MrsAlphaOne
You're a necro/dark /dark has the heal which counts as a "hit" to the baddie. (since there is a tohit roll) You were "participating" while you were spamhealing. :P
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It was very weird in a way; I'm used to my zombies being quickly hurt, but the ghouls and/or experiments weren't doing that much.
That said, I also had out my Dark Servant, who was doing its normal things. Did he spamheal off the boss? If so, that might be considered the participation on my part...
I find your lack of signature disturbing.
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...so that might be why my controller got the small table in Neutropolis' Great Escape while merely setting up lightning storms and tossing about Tornadoes, while also getting about 2/3s of the requirements for the failed experiment kill badge and only sharing the event with a lower level MasterMind.|
Originally Posted by Castle
Damage, in itself, is not part of the reward criteria. Otherwise, we'd have situations where Scrapper vs. Defender would almost always yield smaller rewards for the defender.
The guys who built the scoring system have gone to extreme lengths to ensure that everyone who is actively participating gets a fair share of the rewards. |
Next time, I spam more controls
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Any chance this can be implemented elsewhere? Eochai and Jack of Iron still don't reward properly if they've been wailing on each other too long.
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Originally Posted by Castle
Damage, in itself, is not part of the reward criteria. Otherwise, we'd have situations where Scrapper vs. Defender would almost always yield smaller rewards for the defender.
The guys who built the scoring system have gone to extreme lengths to ensure that everyone who is actively participating gets a fair share of the rewards. |
The plastic tips at the end of shoelaces are called aglets. Their true purpose is sinister.
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You have had incredibly bad experiences. Or perhaps you haven't noticed. (it's easy on 8 people teams.)
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Originally Posted by TrueMetal
In my experience a lot of MM's don't use their buffs and debuffs all that much. They just let their pets do all the work.
If pet participation isn't tracked than that might be the cause of MM's not getting propper rewars. |
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I would really love an explanation of what "actively participating" means. I realize that may not be possible, because if the Devs let us know exactly what that means I'm sure people will find a way to exploit it, but still. Does bubbling your pets count as "active participation"? Is it merely power execution? Or do you have to affect enemies in some way?
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Originally Posted by Castle
Damage, in itself, is not part of the reward criteria. Otherwise, we'd have situations where Scrapper vs. Defender would almost always yield smaller rewards for the defender.
The guys who built the scoring system have gone to extreme lengths to ensure that everyone who is actively participating gets a fair share of the rewards. |
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Originally Posted by Castle
The guys who built the scoring system have gone to extreme lengths to ensure that everyone who is actively participating gets a fair share of the rewards.
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Regardless of what lengths the designers went to, the result seems a bit borked. Or rather more than a bit, actually.
There's plenty of content where my participation is limited it to "let the pets whale on it" and I consider that plenty active. Managing those guys is a chore, and that management is a big component of what a MM does. Any other theories misunderstand the MM style of play.
We don't get good personal attacks; most MM skip these entirely. Some secondaries like FF aren't terribly "active". Cast once and you're good. I'm not seeing how trying to force people to play differently than normal is good. I suspect some other play styles might get caught up in this too.
The "participation script" might have been a good idea or an interesting experiment, but if it isn't capturing actual participation, then it isn't working and may have to be scrapped.
The Zone event doesn't allow Masterminds to be active in them. There is no real point to debuff the npcs since they are usually dead before I can activate Darkest Night. Twilight Grasp works a bit, but if actual healing is tracked instead of total heals, then it is pointless to use since they are not a concern. Therefore, there is no point for MMs to do anything except buff their pets and guide their attacks.
The worst part of this event is that there is no indication that Masterminds have to be more active than their usual selfs. Either allow pet damage to count, give a contact by the event that tells players what counts as active participation, or make the mobs tougher are possible methods of fixing it for MMs.
The first step in being sane is to admit that you are insane.
Looking at the data, all AT's are within a few percentiles of one another for these events. Masterminds are not even the lowest of the ATs.
Interesting.
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This would be good to know.
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Originally Posted by Sapphire7
I would really love an explanation of what "actively participating" means. I realize that may not be possible, because if the Devs let us know exactly what that means I'm sure people will find a way to exploit it, but still. Does bubbling your pets count as "active participation"? Is it merely power execution? Or do you have to affect enemies in some way?
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Can you pick out of the data MMs on teams vs. MMs solo? I have run the Great Escape and the Protesters on a duo with an MM and I on my tank. Each time, I got the better rewards table than they did, and I did not notice them hanging idly by. They were attacking through pets, and healing/buffing/debuffing.
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Originally Posted by Castle
Looking at the data, all AT's are within a few percentiles of one another for these events. Masterminds are not even the lowest of the ATs.
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50s: Inv/SS PB Emp/Dark Grav/FF DM/Regen TA/A Sonic/Elec MA/Regen Fire/Kin Sonic/Rad Ice/Kin Crab Fire/Cold NW Merc/Dark Emp/Sonic Rad/Psy Emp/Ice WP/DB FA/SM
Overlord of Dream Team and Nightmare Squad
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Originally Posted by Castle
Looking at the data, all AT's are within a few percentiles of one another for these events. Masterminds are not even the lowest of the ATs.
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Even so, the algorithm seems... dunno... chaotic? Not robust? Easily perturbed? It doesn't yield predicable, intuitive results. I think there's a class (or several classes) of algorithms that work this way. It might need some poking and prodding.
Maybe just increase the range where you check for participation to allow people who scored a little lower on the "participation score" to still be considered participants.
I have noticed this with The Neutropolis event on my Merc Dark MM. I have doe it 2x and neither time was I offered the badge. I took Merits the first time and Inspiration the second time, since they don't drop any.
As for this Active Participation... Tar Patch, Twilight Grasp, Howling Twilight, Darkest Night, Bile Spray, Burst, Black Wand, Nemesis Staff, Sands of Mu, almost forgot Fluffy.
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I made some comments about successfully running the three events in another thread. I'm a little surprised you haven't have any success under the circumstances you described since I did pretty much the exact same thing -- my Bots/Dark/Soul used Twilight Grasp, Tar Patch, Howling Twilight, Fearsome Stare, Petrifying Gaze, Night Fall, Soul Tentacles, Soul Storm (although how anyone could not use this power is beyond me) along with the Nem Staff and of course everybody's favorite Fluffy. (Of course, I ran the Neutropolis one alongside a Scrapper, but he didn't even get the badge, so clearly I was out-contributing him.)
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Originally Posted by Blood_Beret
I have noticed this with The Neutropolis event on my Merc Dark MM. I have doe it 2x and neither time was I offered the badge. I took Merits the first time and Inspiration the second time, since they don't drop any.
As for this Active Participation... Tar Patch, Twilight Grasp, Howling Twilight, Darkest Night, Bile Spray, Burst, Black Wand, Nemesis Staff, Sands of Mu, almost forgot Fluffy. |
"You don't lose levels. You don't have equipment to wear out, repair, or lose, or that anyone can steal from you. About the only thing lighter than debt they could do is have an NPC walk by, point and laugh before you can go to the hospital or base." -Memphis_Bill
We will honor the past, and fight to the last, it will be a good way to die...
I just went there at an off time and soloed the event to get the badge. That reminds me I haven't updated my Badge-Hunter pages all weekend...
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not interesting... Broken|
Originally Posted by Jetpack
Interesting.
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What about those of us buff happy masterminds who let their pets do all the damage while we sit bakc and heal and debuff. We get NOTHING! NADA! ZIP!
so... this is working as intended?
no wonder the mastermind seciton of the forums is being ignored by the DEV team
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Wrong. Read what I posted a few posts up. It is entirely possible (and in fact, not even that difficult) to get full rewards for all 3 zone events as a Mastermind with all 6 pets out (7, if you're playing a /Dark Mastermind). You just need to be more proactive about using your secondary in order to get full credit. It's not working ideally, but it's not broken either.
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Originally Posted by kylite
not interesting... Broken
What about those of us buff happy masterminds who let their pets do all the damage while we sit bakc and heal and debuff. We get NOTHING! NADA! ZIP! |
"You don't lose levels. You don't have equipment to wear out, repair, or lose, or that anyone can steal from you. About the only thing lighter than debt they could do is have an NPC walk by, point and laugh before you can go to the hospital or base." -Memphis_Bill
We will honor the past, and fight to the last, it will be a good way to die...
Gob, were you solo or teamed when you got the badges?
50s: Inv/SS PB Emp/Dark Grav/FF DM/Regen TA/A Sonic/Elec MA/Regen Fire/Kin Sonic/Rad Ice/Kin Crab Fire/Cold NW Merc/Dark Emp/Sonic Rad/Psy Emp/Ice WP/DB FA/SM
Overlord of Dream Team and Nightmare Squad
I detailed all of this in the post I linked, but...
Solo for Protester and Syndicate Takedown, teamed with a Scrapper for the Great Escape or whatever it's called. The Scrapper was lower level than my level 50 (I forget how low, teens maybe?) and was sidekicked to me, and he didn't get the badge.
"You don't lose levels. You don't have equipment to wear out, repair, or lose, or that anyone can steal from you. About the only thing lighter than debt they could do is have an NPC walk by, point and laugh before you can go to the hospital or base." -Memphis_Bill
We will honor the past, and fight to the last, it will be a good way to die...
The Nova event I got on the first try, and was solo for it.
The Imperial event I got on the first try, and was solo for it.
The Neutropolis event I got on my second attempt. The first I was duo'ed with a Brute, and I suspect that the Boss escaped at the end. (I'm not sure either way.) I only got a small reward selection screen, so I chose merits. The second attempt I was solo, and defeated the boss. This got me the large reward table, so I got the badge. Did it again a third time for the Failed Experiments badge, defeated the boss again, and got the large table again.
My MM rarely uses any attacks; I only have the one from my PPP and my 2 vet reward attacks. I usually use debuffs, heals, etc. So, it is possibly to receive it just based on pets taking down the critters.
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