Honoree mission Awful
By
Airborne_Ninja,
Posted on: 2010-11-30 13:42 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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I agree with that. Lady Grey does give you good warning that things will get nasty. And since the previous mission featured an EB fight, the warning should should be enough to leave you expecting a real challenge.
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Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
You mean besides Lady Grey saying it's going to be tough - as in warning you to bring friends?
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My solution and suggestion to the devs is simple then!|
Originally Posted by Shubbie
Im finnished now, I already dropped it.
Im saying this is bad game design, the teaming situation is doubly exasperated by villian imbalance, no cross faction and people are dropping it all over the place. |
MAKE SURE THIS MISSION CANNOT BE DROPPED!
Incarnate should be hard to become. I actually asked one friend and we duo-ed it on +1/x3 with AV's.
Also... we where both villain... we pulled two shivan's. And we both activated Demonic Aura. And then aggroed both AV's whahahahahahaaha... And won!
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Yeah, again, Go to Hell with the 'No Drop' thing. Seriously, do people not understand a game is meant to be fun? If people are dropping missions, it tend to be because they are the epitome of Not Fun, and sometimes bugged.|
Originally Posted by Liz Bathory
My solution and suggestion to the devs is simple then!
MAKE SURE THIS MISSION CANNOT BE DROPPED! Incarnate should be hard to become. I actually asked one friend and we duo-ed it on +1/x3 with AV's. Also... we where both villain... we pulled two shivan's. And we both activated Demonic Aura. And then aggroed both AV's whahahahahahaaha... And won! |
In my opinion, the RWZ was both.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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Hmmmmm.... Sorry you had trouble with this one...|
Originally Posted by Shubbie
This is one of the worst missions Ive ever seen in the game, getting held and 2 shotted is not in any way shape or form fun.
This mission is darn near undoable by squishies unless they are bleeding io's from their ears. Melee's are soloing this fairly easy and dont want or need to team up with the squishies. And I saw alot of people saying just drop the mission, its not worth it... whats the point of putting in a mission so many people are just going to drop. |
I wasn't in any of the Betas (GR or I19), so last night was the first time I'd
ever seen the mission.
I ran it 3X solo with a Brute, an E3 Blaster, and a NB/Nin Stalker.
Nobody had any trouble with it at all <shrug>
In fact, in the entire arc, only the Blaster died, and that was on the very
last mission (EB - Minos), and even that was mostly a case of Bad Luck timing.
Given that 2 of those 3 AT's are "squishies", I guess, I'm not seeing any
general problem for soloing these. At worst, some luck & heal insps (and
maybe a Shivan) should get you through them next time...
Regards,
4
PS> Watching Ruludak go poof was one of the cooler graphic episodes in the game (imho)
I've been rich, and I've been poor. Rich is definitely better.
Light is faster than sound - that's why some people look smart until they speak.
For every seller who leaves the market dirty stinkin' rich,
there's a buyer who leaves the market dirty stinkin' IOed. - Obitus.
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Well, go to hell with your go to hell with the no drop thing.|
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
Yeah, again, Go to Hell with the 'No Drop' thing. Seriously, do people not understand a game is meant to be fun?
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Seriously, do you not understand that some aspect of the game has to be challenging? Or perhaps, require you to think ahead?
Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
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don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
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It depends on the squishie. My Kin defender is an endurance draining pro. Usually when she fights an EB it gets one shot at her, and even if it holds her it can't take advantage of that because it has no endurance.|
Originally Posted by Rodion
I always have 3-4 Break Frees on squishies, at least 4 purples and 4-5 greens. When I use them I convert whatever odd reds, yellows and oranges I have around to maintain a good stock.
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For example, I don't think Trapdoor got off an attack. His duplication power is apparently endurance free, because he summoned lots of clones. But I just Power Pushed him into the lava and kept his blue bar empty.
Then I felt really bad when he started pleading for mercy from the bottom of the lava pool.
Honoree, however, has serious resistance to endurance drain. I think I drained him only a third. That, combined with ranged sleeps and stuns, made him the perfect enemy for taking my kin down. My standard tactics did not work; I would have to use the break free/purple inspiration strategy, and I was not prepared for that.
...
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If by 'Think Ahead' you mean 'Have either Omniescent Knowledge or have to read up every detail of the arc before hand to have a chance' then yeah, I object to that. Understandably, I think. |
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
Well, go to hell with your go to hell with the no drop thing.
Seriously, do you not understand that some aspect of the game has to be challenging? Or perhaps, require you to think ahead? |
And theres nothing I don't 'Understand', thank you very much. There is nothing challenging, I.E. something that requires tactical application, about zerg rushing Rikti.
For all this continous harping on about 'Use ST attacks' and 'Pull the EBs then!', believe you me, I tried. In my mission, however, the Rikti seemed determined to home in on me as soon as I came into LoS of them again. Meaning by the time I got in place to pull the Honoree, I was under attack from the 100+ horde already. I didn't get a god damn choice, capiche?
Thats not challenging. Its "Computer is a Cheating *******." I couldn't get to the Honoree without the Rikti attacking, and I simply couldn't put that many down due to my AoEs target cap being overwhelmed.
So, I have a mission that was not fun, frustrating and to a level that was, IMO, bugged. When my net dropped me, what did I do? Dropped it, like bugged missions are meant to be.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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For what it's worth, I wasn't given the option to drop any of the arc at any point when I ran it last night. Running it again tonight on a different character.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
Well, go to hell with your go to hell with the no drop thing.
Seriously, do you not understand that some aspect of the game has to be challenging? Or perhaps, require you to think ahead? |
There are no words for what this community, and the friends I have made here mean to me. Please know that I care for all of you, yes, even you. If you Twitter, I'm MrThan. If you're Unleashed, I'm dumps. I'll try and get registered on the Titan Forums as well. Peace, and thanks for the best nine years anyone could ever ask for.
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By "think ahead," I mean "prepare for an EB fight that could be really tough. Glance into the room before you jump in. Notice there are portals that may or may not have already spawned rikti. Think of a way to deal with it before BUTTON MASH."|
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
If by 'Think Ahead' you mean 'Have either Omniescent Knowledge or have to read up every detail of the arc before hand to have a chance' then yeah, I object to that. Understandably, I think.
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Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
And theres nothing I don't 'Understand', thank you very much. There is nothing challenging, I.E. something that requires tactical application, about zerg rushing Rikti.
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Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
For all this continous harping on about 'Use ST attacks' and 'Pull the EBs then!', believe you me, I tried. In my mission, however, the Rikti seemed determined to home in on me as soon as I came into LoS of them again. Meaning by the time I got in place to pull the Honoree, I was under attack from the 100+ horde already. I didn't get a god damn choice, capiche?
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Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
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This is my usual problem with "challenge". But in the Honoree mission, Holtz is the bigger problem so far than the Honoree. Holtz is the one you need purples for, mostly because his Curse of Weariness is an automatic "you lose" that lasts for 5 minutes if it lands. The Honoree just needs to be gotten out of there and kited.
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Originally Posted by Ultimo_
I'm all for things being challenging, but I don't think any game mechanic that makes it impossible to fight back is very good. If you're fighting hard and still get beaten it's a lot more fun than if you're held and unable to defend yourself. No one wants to be a spectator. But then, that's me.
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<《 New Colchis / Guides / Mission Architect 》>
"At what point do we say, 'You're mucking with our myths'?" - Harlan Ellison
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
Well, go to hell with your go to hell with the no drop thing.
Seriously, do you not understand that some aspect of the game has to be challenging? Or perhaps, require you to think ahead? |
For some reason when we get to talking about "thinking ahead" it's so often in the context of a brute-force battle of the inspirations, as "strategies" for dealing with this fight attest.
IMO the inspiration system has seriously damaged this game in the sense that it has inserted itself as mandatory. Because the developers know we have access to unlimited inspirations, encounters are then designed to counter them, and the whole "thinking ahead" thing devolves into a potion popping contest a la Diablo. Reeling in inspirations, followed by rebalancing AVs so that they are less all-or-nothing, would be a huge boon to this game and it's overall balance. Says the loud mouth who is me.
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Perhaps, but a number of people have run it w/o problem, myself included.|
Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex
For some reason when we get to talking about "thinking ahead" it's so often in the context of a brute-force battle of the inspirations, as "strategies" for dealing with this fight attest.
IMO the inspiration system has seriously damaged this game in the sense that it has inserted itself as mandatory. Because the developers know we have access to unlimited inspirations, encounters are then designed to counter them, and the whole "thinking ahead" thing devolves into a potion popping contest a la Diablo. Reeling in inspirations, followed by rebalancing AVs so that they are less all-or-nothing, would be a huge boon to this game and it's overall balance. Says the loud mouth who is me. |
So where do we balance things?
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I was able to auto-complete the Honoree mission last night, and I was also able to auto-complete the finale in beta testing. However, I couldn't auto-complete the Trapdoor mission.
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Originally Posted by DumpleBerry
For what it's worth, I wasn't given the option to drop any of the arc at any point when I ran it last night. Running it again tonight on a different character.
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Originally Posted by all_hell
Perhaps, but a number of people have run it w/o problem, myself included.
So where do we balance things? |
I finished it too, 4 times.
Not because Elite Bosses are balanced though.
Not a bad mission in terms of its design, but boss battles in this game, and the potion-popping-masquerading-as-strategy they involve, still give me heartburn.
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The fact it got to that point at all is rediculous.|
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
By "think ahead," I mean "prepare for an EB fight that could be really tough. Glance into the room before you jump in. Notice there are portals that may or may not have already spawned rikti. Think of a way to deal with it before BUTTON MASH."
Yes, it requires tactical application. Try bringing appropriate inspirations. Try looking into the damn room before you jump into it. Try using targetting macros. Try kiting. Try pulling. TRY. NEW. BLOODY. TACTICS. Ok. So you got to an irrevocable point in your mission where you could not proceed. Abandon it, try again. The portals don't start with 100+ rikti. |
Oh, and were you there when I was doing the mission? No, you weren't. For the record, I never button mash going 'Herp dade derp!' I play Bots/Traps, for pete sake, Im more than at home with tactical application, thank you. And no, I didn't run straight into the room. I DID kite, mostly because with softcapped defences its nigh impossible not to.
So, Id thank you for not judging me like you were watching over my shoulder when I was playing and typing down to me like Im one of these god damn whiners who hasnt got a clue to play. When I complain about something on the boards, its for a reason. And I think its understandable that I get a little shirty when being patronised.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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You could try find a friend to help. (this was like no problem last night with a gazillion people doing the arc).
Or if you have no friends, Couple of break frees and some lucks and you'll win on any char.
What is the problem?
First time i did it was on dup my Scrapper with another scrapper, and i forgot to remove AV diff setting, we almost got the captain until he started end draining me.
Changed diff so he was a EB and we took him down under 10 secs, Honoree took maybe a minute since we kinda left him alone to take out the rikti and the ambush first.
Finally had the first death on this arc. Not this mission, but the final one. Rad/rad. What killed me? Getting too close to another Echo and getting knocked back multiple times. EB? Cake.
Yes, I do find that amusing.
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Yeah, the EBs in all the arcs were fine. I liked their dialogue, the missions themselves...hell, I have no problem with the arc as a whole, aside from the Bugged MM pets in the first mission which made me sad, and the Rikti Zerging in the RWZ mission. Even then, it wasnt the EBs giving me problems.|
Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
Finally had the first death on this arc. Not this mission, but the final one. Rad/rad. What killed me? Getting too close to another Echo and getting knocked back multiple times. EB? Cake.
Yes, I do find that amusing. |
People seem to note Trapdoor as well; I loved that mission. Is that map he's in new?
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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I know you play bots/traps, but I disagree with the second half. This mission should not be a problem for any bots/traps mastermind, of which I am one.|
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
I play Bots/Traps, for pete sake, Im more than at home with tactical application, thank you.
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Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
And no, I didn't run straight into the room. I DID kite, mostly because with softcapped defences its nigh impossible not to.
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You lay caltrops down in the hallway before the room? Maybe a tripmine or two?
EVEN IF the room is already FLOODED, target the portal and send a volley in. Immediately pull back to bodyguard mode. Deal with what approaches slowly through your minefield and caltrops. Target the next portal and plink at it if you must, but by $deity, this mission should never be such a problem as you've described for any self respecting bots/traps.
Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
Well, we're going to have to agree to disagree on this one. Because I pulled a buttload of tricks outta my skitplate, and none of them worked, until I eventually managed to get the Honoree to follow me thanks to his longer ranged psi attacks.
And then the net died. So there was no way in hell I was running through that a second time.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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Or they gave up when the game pushed back a little instead of trying harder. Fun does not equal easymode.
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Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
Yeah, again, Go to Hell with the 'No Drop' thing. Seriously, do people not understand a game is meant to be fun? If people are dropping missions, it tend to be because they are the epitome of Not Fun, and sometimes bugged.
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The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
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Fun is not the game getting exponentially harder if you start to fail compared to it being easy if you complete it successfully the first time.|
Originally Posted by EvilGeko
Or they gave up when the game pushed back a little instead of trying harder. Fun does not equal easymode.
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Infinite spawn anything is a bad mechanic for this type of mission.
"An army is a team. It lives, eats, sleeps, fights as a team. This individuality stuff is a bunch of BS." -General George Patton
-Lord Azazel
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Indeed it doesn't. But Fun does also not equate to 'We're going to zerg you with Rikti to the point you can't even see the EB for them!'|
Originally Posted by EvilGeko
Or they gave up when the game pushed back a little instead of trying harder. Fun does not equal easymode.
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I've covered this point to death already. But, again, it wasn't challenging. It was just cheap and tedious.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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Again, they aren't infinite. Close the portals, they stop coming. Do it one at a time and clean up the Mob, rinse, lather, repeat. Take out the first 3, pull the EB's, mission over.
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Originally Posted by Lord_Thanatos
Fun is not the game getting exponentially harder if you start to fail compared to it being easy if you complete it successfully the first time.
Infinite spawn anything is a bad mechanic for this type of mission. |
And I always carry at least one Break Free on melee characters, because you can get held. My Fire/Fire tank was once held by an MI and her four summoned illusionists when they all popped off holds simultaneously. It was very surprising, but the Break Free saved his life.