AE Power Combos
By
AnElfCalledMack,
Posted on: 2010-11-29 12:45 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
I highly doubt it.
They tried that in the beginning, then went to the current AT system we have now.
Champions Online tried that, and essentially the only viable way to build your character is essentially as a Ranged Damage Scrapper. Because there is no reason why you'd do anything else.
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Originally Posted by reiella
Until I see something that states to the contrary, going to assume VK is right
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Nope. Never going to happen. |
Originally Posted by Redd Rumm
While makeing my AE arcs i tend to make my critters a little too powerful ,because they allow u to make awsome power combos like brutes with SS an Rad or MA scrappers with kin , i was wondering if we would ever be allowed to just make our own AT and combine what ever we wanted ,whether it would be a Blaster with fire blast an tanker sheild or blaster DP an scrapper MA
who knows all i know is i wish i could play with some of the stuff i come up with in AE . |
Your own observation of how powerful those combinations are is exactly WHY it will never happen. Quite simply because there are a lot of combinations in the game that would be STUPIDLY overpowered if they were allowed, and just as many that would be completely useless.
Think about the damage potential of, oh, Fire Control/Shield Defense for a second. On the flipside, think about how gimped a Stone Armor/Sonic Resonance character would be.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
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The issue isn't just combinations, it's the combination of powersets and AT modifiers as well. |
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
Nope. Never going to happen.
Your own observation of how powerful those combinations are is exactly WHY it will never happen. Quite simply because there are a lot of combinations in the game that would be STUPIDLY overpowered if they were allowed, and just as many that would be completely useless. Think about the damage potential of, oh, Fire Control/Shield Defense for a second. On the flipside, think about how gimped a Stone Armor/Sonic Resonance character would be. |
A Fire Control/SD with no Containment wouldn't be that overpowered, if you saddled them with say MM modifiers on everything
It would be too wildly unpredicable though, and people would just flock / build "the best" resulting in less variation rather than more in builds.
Fire Blast/Stone Armor? Owies.
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"I noticed this is way too powerful, so will we ever get it?" 
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Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.
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Fire Blast/Ninjitsu would be all sorts of wrong.
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Personally, what I'd like to do, is the option to get multiple powers different sets/ATs from one tier, you could also choose extra base powers (fury/gauntlet/defiance/domination/scourge/etc). XP required to level would be multiplied massively too.|
Originally Posted by Redd Rumm
While makeing my AE arcs i tend to make my critters a little too powerful ,because they allow u to make awsome power combos like brutes with SS an Rad or MA scrappers with kin , i was wondering if we would ever be allowed to just make our own AT and combine what ever we wanted ,whether it would be a Blaster with fire blast an tanker sheild or blaster DP an scrapper MA
who knows all i know is i wish i could play with some of the stuff i come up with in AE . |
So you could make the ultimate character, but you'd have to farm XP all day to get to level 2.
Or you could hit level 2 in 5 minutes with a normal archetype.
But either way, it'd be so many kinds of wrong.
You know what I did as a challenge?
I greated characters with ZERO status effects in an arc. I created the Green Martians of Edgar Rice Burroughs. I made them quite tough as befits a warrior, had them hit fairly hard and then I posted the Arc and had a number of people run it - THEY LOVED IT.
It was very stiff competition, none of the groups could be defeated in a steam roller fashion. It also was fair - no one held, knocked back or mezzed you. The bad guys were also in the whole hard to hold, but they all had weaknesses - immobilize, slows and so on.
I was rated straight 5 stars for it by most people as the foes were a challenge yet very fair. I did it as a counter to the Devs who I say often take a shortcut - they use mezz to artificially add difficulty. Design and armor can make foes tough and resilient - while not holding your player in perma - status effect.
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Most people like my arc, despite there being some stuns and holds here and there. |
Originally Posted by Infernus_Hades
You know what I did as a challenge?
I greated characters with ZERO status effects in an arc. I created the Green Martians of Edgar Rice Burroughs. I made them quite tough as befits a warrior, had them hit fairly hard and then I posted the Arc and had a number of people run it - THEY LOVED IT. It was very stiff competition, none of the groups could be defeated in a steam roller fashion. It also was fair - no one held, knocked back or mezzed you. The bad guys were also in the whole hard to hold, but they all had weaknesses - immobilize, slows and so on. I was rated straight 5 stars for it by most people as the foes were a challenge yet very fair. I did it as a counter to the Devs who I say often take a shortcut - they use mezz to artificially add difficulty. Design and armor can make foes tough and resilient - while not holding your player in perma - status effect. |
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Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.
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That would be more incentive for farmers, as well as giving them the tools to do so faster.|
Originally Posted by Warsuit X-5
Personally, what I'd like to do, is the option to get multiple powers different sets/ATs from one tier, you could also choose extra base powers (fury/gauntlet/defiance/domination/scourge/etc). XP required to level would be multiplied massively too.
So you could make the ultimate character, but you'd have to farm XP all day to get to level 2. Or you could hit level 2 in 5 minutes with a normal archetype. But either way, it'd be so many kinds of wrong. |
I will say that this is a good way to judge what the basis for new Archetypes (or additions/alterations to existing ones). Obviously Blaster damage and Tank armor are a bad combo for game balance, as is that type of defense with heavy control or mastermind pets, as would a combo of those two by themselves. (Mastermind pets with Blasts seems a bit overpowered as well, so does just about any other combo with them, aside from buffs.)
But is Buff/Melee that overpowered? I'd love to make a Kinetics/Kinetic Melee Defender personally.
How about Buff/Control, simply the opposite of what we've got with Controllers? Or expanding the Dominator Assault sets to pair with non-Control sets?
There is potential to mine good things here, as well as the potential for abuse.
A combination I end up making a lot in my arcs is range/defense. Works especially well for tech and gadget themed critters. AR/Invuln, DP/WP, Archery/Ninjitsu, stuff like that.
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Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.
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Well the main thing i would make is something we should already have , A ranged+Def at like a Dp/sr toon so i can at least be dogeing bullets while i flip around like an idiot wit my guns (ill settle for a MA blaster secondary tho)
Range/Defense can work, just not at Blaster/Tank levels. Kheldians pull this off already.
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Fortunatas and Crabs do as well. But they have a bit under Stalker damage and defenses. Although they also have powerful team buffs that, if removed, would warrant increases in damage and survival.
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Originally Posted by SuperFerret
Range/Defense can work, just not at Blaster/Tank levels. Kheldians pull this off already.
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Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.
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Yeah. Like I said, there's potential to be mined here. More combos and options are always welcome.
Control/Defense would be cool...
Oh, wait... that's my Fortunata.
Weight training: Because you'll never hear someone lament "If only I were weaker, I could have saved them."
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Originally Posted by SuperFerret
Range/Defense can work, just not at Blaster/Tank levels. Kheldians pull this off already.
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Originally Posted by Dispari
Fortunatas and Crabs do as well. But they have a bit under Stalker damage and defenses. Although they also have powerful team buffs that, if removed, would warrant increases in damage and survival.
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Fire Blast would be all kinds of sick if paired with something like SR or Ninjitsu. Especially Ninjitsu, since you can softcap it fairly easily and it has a good self heal.
The devs balanced Epic ATs around the idea of Ranged/Defense, and further balanced it by saying "You can only take this limited set of powers we have balanced to work well together without being overpowered." It would be a HUGE amount of work to balance every ranged attack set with every defensive set, so it's probably never going to be an option.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
That might do in the tank-blasters, but other combos aren't as broken.
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You and I have very different definitions of "easily." |
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
Fire Blast would be all kinds of sick if paired with something like SR or Ninjitsu. Especially Ninjitsu, since you can softcap it fairly easily and it has a good self heal.
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No character I've ever made outside of my widow have been able to achieve softcap without build sacrifice. So I've never bothered.
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Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.
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BTW - Is it possible to Soft Cap without use of IO's? Seeing as how the game is balanced around SO's, that really might not be as big of an issue as assumed.
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Aggro management is useless, ally buffs effectively non-existent, no crowd control to speak of, and ally heals that are less effective, slower, and harder to use than self heals.|
Originally Posted by Von Krieger
Champions Online tried that, and essentially the only viable way to build your character is essentially as a Ranged Damage Scrapper. Because there is no reason why you'd do anything else.
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I don't think you can blame the lack of variety on power flexibility so much as overall bad game design.
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A few things come close, like Traps Defenders and Widows. Not sure if anything can do it though.|
Originally Posted by SuperFerret
BTW - Is it possible to Soft Cap without use of IO's? Seeing as how the game is balanced around SO's, that really might not be as big of an issue as assumed.
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Incidentally, Scrapper SR is around 30%. If they gave SR to Tankers it would be super easy to soft-cap.
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Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.
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Originally Posted by SuperFerret
BTW - Is it possible to Soft Cap without use of IO's? Seeing as how the game is balanced around SO's, that really might not be as big of an issue as assumed.
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I tested a Mercs/FF mastermind in the I19 open beta that came pretty close with SOs, if she didn't reach it exactly. She had Dispersion Bubble, Maneuvers, Stealth, Combat Jumping, and the Scorpion Shield from Mace Mastery.
Edit - I know she had Power Boost, so I may be thinking of Power Boosted numbers, in which case it's not that helpful.
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As a proponent of open power systems, I must object. The only reason they became city of scrappers is that their system did nothing to encourage anything else, and support powers are underpowered.|
Originally Posted by Von Krieger
Champions Online tried that.
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There are definitely ways to make an open power system work, but I won't get into them here at the moment.
What's being discussed here is open powersets, not open powers, anyway. That would actually be much easier to do than open powers, since you could add an archetype with an appropriate set of modifiers and banned powers for each combination.
A game is not supposed to be some kind of... place where people enjoy themselves!
While makeing my AE arcs i tend to make my critters a little too powerful ,because they allow u to make awsome power combos like brutes with SS an Rad or MA scrappers with kin , i was wondering if we would ever be allowed to just make our own AT and combine what ever we wanted ,whether it would be a Blaster with fire blast an tanker sheild or blaster DP an scrapper MA
who knows all i know is i wish i could play with some of the stuff i come up with in AE .