Respeccing Fitnessless for Fitnessful

I finished respeccing out of fitness on all my builds a couple of weeks ago. Except for Praetorians created after the I18 freespec was issued.

Having done so, and playing without fitness for a while now, and changing a wide range of characters anywhere from level 8 to level 50, I have a few comments and observations. In no particular order:

Stamina wasn't as good as I thought it was. Characters that were poorly slotted before respeccing, actually perform better now that I've put more slots into endurance reduction. Thanks to invention enhancements, slotting for endurance reduction hasn't cost me accuracy or damage.

Characters who were well slotted before, are a bit slower than before. I have to put some thought into pacing myself and not sprint from group to group.

The power I miss the most is not stamina, it is swift. I've adjusted to playing without stamina. But I have to fight myself to leave sprint toggled off. I feel like I'm wading in mud.

I'm not planning to add slots to any of the fitness powers. They will each get one enhancement in the default slot.

I do eat blue inspirations for endurance recovery now. Used to just use them to make room in the tray.

For me, the real performance break point isn't really 20 because of stamina, it is 22 when level 25 SO and IO enhancements become available.

OK Sam, not flaming you here but I would genuinely like to know what I have done since I cam back to the boards that even remotely approaches - remotely approaches - the things Leo has done in this thread. Are you seriously thinking that my virtual eyeroll over someone's flaming me because I did not actually pull up and count the Mu in Marshall Brass's "Find Truth Behind PTS" mission, qualifies as equivalent to what Leo has done here?

I thought my response ws pretty low-key, given that the accusation was clearly meant to stir things up and as such, qualifies as a troll post.

[As if anyone could even go in and actually count anyways, because that count is going to change based on level, AT, and mission settings..... silly to even try]

Were you to say such a thing, I would have to reply that there is a serious double standard going on around here.

I'm actually rather annoyed at the mere idea of being blamed for silliness about an actual count of Mu. Perhaps I am alone in the entire playerbase in thinking this [although I doubt it], but however many Mu are floating around in this pre-Stamina mission, it certainly FEELS like 5000.

You have a point there.

Agreed.

After we get stamina from the get-go I might actually *play* some low level villain arcs instead of street-sweeping or MA farming my way to the 20's.

Originally Posted by Zwillinger GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.

Originally Posted by Captain_Photon NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

not to mention the Vaz doing toxic damage, which nobody resists.

This.

Yes for some characters stamina is essential but not for most. Most can actually do very well with intelligent slotting and a bit of endurance reduction slotting.

The problem is that because most of the very high end highly optimized builds use stamina people "know" that it is something they "must" have. There is a reason that out of 70+ characters only 3 of mine have taken stamina. The rest have never needed it or missed it. Frankly I expect that gaining inherent swift/hurdle will have more of an impact on most of them than will the inherent stamina.

It has just become known that all builds need stamina. I've always found the 3 extra powers more than made up for stamina. Some characters have 3 powers to trade easily for stamina but most actually can gain as much extra from taking 3 other powers. ::shrug:: Different play styles mainly but one has become known as the ideal way.

Stamina became de riguer because the majority of characters perform more efficiently with it than otherwise, and gamers love their efficiency.

And I'll reiterate my point: Bringing up stamina is moot, as everyone will have it. But when you post n00b sounding posts with n00b sounding problems, expect n00b level answers. If you've got to choose between death or running away which you consider both lame, claim you've got the know-how to handle it yet don't want to be bothered to use the other options...

And before you say it, I'm not calling you a n00b, but what does this sound like?


Sounds like someone that is faced with a problem, knows there are solutions to solve it but refuses to learn them. Notice, in my response, I didn't bother listing every little solution you can use to mitigate the issue. But listing them all would *really* make me sound condescending. I guess I could have just posted a /facepalm picture and said you're exaggerating, but that ain't my style.

I'd rather not put out fake etiquette or 'spare feelings' when I don't agree, even with a poster I deal with often (yeah, just because I post with T_A elsewhere doesn't mean I'll spare his feelings about the little pictures he posts at times. don't really need to press on it again, but it does annoy me at times >_>) No sugar coating here, even if I *am* in a good mood.


I'd say 'bratty' = 'l2ply', at *least* considering l2ply isn't even a direct insult. But if that's the only thing people consider offensive about my first post, then I will retract it and apologize. Again, I don't see it as all that offensive (if someone says that to me, I just laugh because I *do* know how to play under a slew of circumstances) but apparently others do.

So sorry, Sam. I didn't mean it the way you read it so I'll retract that.

I have three words;

Peacebringer.
Starter.
Arcs.

Originally Posted by Zwillinger GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.

Originally Posted by Captain_Photon NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

Your command of the language is truly exquisite.


Or something.

I can live with unresistable damage. Just as long as I have a little endurance to do something about it *with.*

lol.

please!

How so? If they had Stamina already, they still will. They will instead have three new powers to take the place of the Fitness pool, and no new slots for them nor any new endurance to power them. That represents more problems than benefits, at least to me.

yeah, god forbid anyone give you more power choices.

what a terrible burden, how dare they!

I want more "problems" like inherent stamina.

At least you admit your reading comprehension isn't infallible even if it is in a sarcastic roundabout way.

I'd like more 'problems' like a dilemma between inherent stamina and inherent leadership or something >_>

I'll agree with MunkiLord.

Yes, people like yourself who don't know how to build their characters and are unwilling to learn will still have problems.

I'm not trying to criticise you, Bad. All I'm saying is I don't try to preach to you these days, not because you're some kind of lost cause or some kind of evil person or any nonsense like that. We've just gone over that in the past, we've said our peace and I see no more reason to get on your case these days. No insult or dismissal intended.

If you want me to be perfectly honest, the post in question I found to be a little too confrontational and a little too dismissive, but it's really not something I'd call you out on. I mean, even I'm not THAT anal. Live and let live, as it were. I apologise if I offended you, or insinuated something unpleasant. That wasn't my intention.

And to give credit where credit is due, I appreciate the way you handled what could have been a fairly controversial post, so thank you for that.

Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

*sigh* Leo, Leo... Why do you embroil me in these tangents where I must continually re-explain the same problem? I can deal with endurance. I know how to deal with endurance. I'm prepared to deal with endurance. But -READ CAREFULLY- it takes time, and it takes opportunity. Yes, I can slot for endurance reduction. When I get the chance to. There is more on a build to slot for than endurance reduction. There are things like accuracy, damage, defences, recharge here and there. There are things to slot that I need to juggle with endurance slotting, and that means I cannot afford to slot for endurance right away, even when I get into SOs.

Yes, were my characters born at 50, I'd really never have endurance problems, because I'd have the slots to drop for reduction right away. But they're not. They're born at level 1 with two powers and no slots. WHEN these slots come about - which is in the 30s with large and frequent slot levels - I will slot them and be just fine. BEFORE I am able to slot for endurance, the game is not fun for a good few of my characters.

And, yes, you have a point. Ever since I heard we'll be getting Stamina for free, I assumed a stance of "couldn't be arsed" when it came to endurance management. Why would I bother over-slotting on endurance at the cost of my defence and offence when I could simply wait a few more days and just slot up Stamina when that came about? Why bother? I still can't find a reason for this. So, for the next few days, my newer builds will be... "Endurance-challenged," put it like this, as I opt to slot more damage, more health and more defence instead of more endurance reduction.

I really don't mind being "underestimated," as it were, but with how many times I've argued AGAINST needing Stamina, I'd honestly think you'd know me better than to assume this.

Then you and I disagree on a fundamental level. People who never "sugar coat" anything are unpleasant to deal with. I apologise if this sounds like an insult, but this is how I've always felt. The notion that it's OK to say something just because it's true, even if it's rude, crude or insulting, is not a notion I've ever subscribed to, or indeed a notion I've ever been tolerant of. If you walk into a public, social environment, you are burdened with the responsibility of being aware of your environment, which consists of the people around with. You can choose to embrace or ignore that responsibility, but that always, always reflects on what you are perceived as.

You may not care about what "image" you present to the public, but you still very much present an image to the public, it just ends up as one you may not necessarily be proud of.

Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

Now if only I'd said the same about a page before that

In general, I will agree with you, as that has always been my argument in the "Stamina" threads of the past. However, with Stamina free now, I must take the opposite side:

While it's true that almost no build ever actually "needs" Stamina, it's also true that practically EVERY build is better with Stamina than without it. "How much better" has always been the pertinent question when Stamina required at least three power picks, because one had to know if it was better enough to devote the power picks to it. Now that it's free, that question becomes obsolete. Everyone WILL have Stamina, and everyone's builds will be better, to different degrees.

Whether Stamina is necessary, "necessary" or unnecessary is no longer a relevant question, put it like that.

Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.