Respeccing Fitnessless for Fitnessful

It's going to cause problems for some people. Sure, you get the Fitness pool for free, but you also get three new powers in other places, and they will likely have an endurance cast .. plus they will need slots, unless you plan wisely ..

I'll respec a few, but the others I probably won't bother, unless I can find 3 powers in their build that I would want, and would require no additional slotting.

On the concept behind Fitness, I used to regard it as the characters that were not "physically fit", who did not either spend time on training or naturally have greater reserves of physical stamina than the norm, would not take Fitness. Now, I regard it as those characters will not SLOT Fitness. It's the same concept, just not taken to the same extreme. I wish there were more slotting options, so I could just take the base value of a given Fitness power without having to leave the slot empty, but I will accept that I have the option of Fitness=1, Fitness=2 and Fitness=3 as the levels of my options.

The problem to me, is that I would expect a conceptual choice, like "my character is not the pinnacle of human fitness" to not effect my character. I would hope that I would either have other options that are just as valuable, or the choice would make only a minor difference. Stamina clearly did not do that, it had a major effect on a character that took it and still does. Health was nearly the same. There were other options, yes, there was "lrn2play", but most of those options required sacrifices that Stamina did not entail.

Thus you ended up with, "Those who are fit", and "those who are not fit" instead of "Those who are fit" and "those who are not AS fit". Simply taking Stamina, period, has as much effect on a character as three slotting it once you took it. This was far too dramatic a difference to justify having "a character that is completely unfit and out of shape". By the act of simply being a hero, whether at the peak of fitness or not, a hero (or villain) is going to be more fit than the norm. You can justify any hero having SOME level of fitness. So I can't really argue against taking the power itself out of the realm of concept, any more than I can argue removing Brawl or Rest. because they should be part of concept. I wouldn't have argued for it, either, but now it's a done deal.

As for the OP's original question, I would say so far I have only run into one character that I have made a dramatic change to. Genie Gold, my Ill/Rad Controller, I had originally taken Stealth so I could pick up Phase Shift, as the ability to phase is part of her concept, even if the gameplay interpretation doesn't go as far as the concept. As I had freed up some powers by respec'ing out of Fitness (in all honesty, I didn't realize I had even taken Fitness, and hadn't even gotten to Stamina even though she's 33) I was able to "waste" a slot on Invisibility instead, and then take Superior Invisibility. I took a power I will never use, (unless I exemplar down, I did give myself that much) which is unlikely to be something I will do on any other character, and probably would not have done it on her had Fitness not become Inherent.

okay I've run some low level stuff with alts I purposefully avoided fitness on due to I19, and the difference is NIGHT AND DAY.

at the higher levels, whatever- I probably won't bother respec'ing many of those guys.

but for the low levels, it's a HUGE difference.

Forums ate the first part of my post and I won't retype that.

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Originally Posted by Leo_G And? I've still got an Axe/WP Brute who I made a while back. With Quick Recovery, he could still run out of endurance (my slotting aimed toward accuracy and damage while relying on QR for endurance). At 20, he picked up stamina and at 21 I slotted everything up like I had planned (2xEND Mod in QR and stamina and accuracy/dmg in the attacks). My test? Sharkhead Isle vs the endless hoard of Scrapyarders. Yeah, he *still* runs out of endurance. He can fight more than before, yes, but he was often hold up in a mass of minions, relying on them to feed his regen while he recovered enough endurance for a couple of attacks. What's all that mean? That anecdotes really only matter depending how much weight you put in them. What weighs your story over mine? Besides, it contradicts part of your argument against the OP's statement that 'Endurance Management becomes meaningless'. Either it is the panacea you describe by your character or it's not. Just because your Axe/SD Brute *seems* to have all his problems solved, doesn't mean they are. Go fight a hoard of lethal resistant mobs just to be sure, eh?

You seem to have forgotten what I actually said:

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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow Yes, endurance management will become much less a part of the game. An good riddance, as far as I'm concerned.

So, no, this does not contradict my post in the slightest. If anything, it vindicates me, because Stamina has indeed made endurance management much less a part of the game, and I couldn't be happier about it. Now, finally, my performance will be limited by my ability to survive, not my ability to not suck wind. Running out of breath before I drop dead has always been the single most irritating aspect of the game, and I'm glad this is no longer as meaningful.

As far as your anecdote goes, it is irrelevant, because you keep changing the subject. I said MY character had endurance problems as I played her, and that Stamina would fix that. My character did indeed have serious problems, and Stamina did indeed fix her. Your character doesn't matter in the slightest because that's your character played as you play it. You lambasted me for daring suggest that Stamina would fix all my problems - which id did - and for having the temerity to complain about endurance problems - which I had but no longer do - because they could be solved in other ways.

You were, in fact, wrong, if only because what I described turned out to be completely correct. This character who was TERRIBLE for endurance, who forced me to rest between every two fights, who forced me to run away from combat because I had no endurance or blues left, who kept dying because her toggles dropped, is now JUST FINE, thanks to Stamina and perhaps in smaller part to Health. Nothing else in her build changed. You told me this wouldn't happen and it happened.

And I know why it happened, which you could have pieced together, actually. I'm playing a Brute, a character who has terrible endurance efficiency on base damage, but who gets more efficient with sustained and maintained Fury. To maintain Fury, I would need to fight faster and fight more frequently. I didn't have the endurance required to do that, which meant my Fury bottomed out between every two fights, even with the I18 changes. Now that I have more endurance - enough to go from one fight to the next without too much of a gap - that in itself gives me more endurance still because my Fury remains consistently high. Not only that, being able to kill things faster also ensures that my health stays high, as well.

I really don't know what you're trying to prove here and, to be perfectly honest, I no longer care. And that's not because I'm a jerk, but because I got what I wanted. That's all I cared about before the changes - that this one character not suck. I got that. Whether your character or anybody else's benefited as much is academic to me. Yes, no, maybe... I don't know. I got the one character who needed extra endurance the most to have more endurance. I know all the rest of my characters will be even better still. There's really no point in asking for anything beyond that.

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Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

Ok - i think i have a handle on the various points arguements. And have suggestions.

For those ppl like OP amazing moo, theres no need to worry about fitness coming full blown on an unwanted character and making you change slots. Just take say hurdle which wont affect movement speed as greatly as swift does and slot all your powers as normal. Solved.

For Ultimo - if you think that having 3 additional powers and not the end to manage them is too much - simply dont take them/use them. Take any of any other power you care to name and simply take them off your task bar and never slot or use them and slot the rest of your powers as before. Your game is now unchanged. Solved.
(If you do actually want the powers and want to use them with no change in your end rate i suggest teh wanting cake and eating it too comes to mind. Also using mids with end rec in most any powers i dont see a great rate end change percent-wise. Maybe in the future we'll have more opportunities for more slots but until then either the cardiac incarnate or physical power pool for heroes with proc for + end might help.)