Should prices be capped in the AH?
By
Airhammer,
Posted on: 2010-11-26 09:42 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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The fastest way to turn AE tickets into cash is to purchase rare salvage: a full stack of tickets will give you 18 pieces of rare salvage, which you can list at sell-it-now prices to get over a million inf. There are ways to get more inf out of your tickets, but they are slower (a stack of tickets will give you 1249 pieces of random arcane salvage, which requires 25+ trips to the market) or less reliable (three gold rolls may give you three top-tier recipes, or three pieces of vendor trash).|
Originally Posted by William_Valence
Also, I was on break from playing for a while, coming back I was suprised. Since when has rare salvage been so cheap? Lots of rare salvage has more supply available than common. If I actually tried, I could probably jack the price of stabalized mutant genomes up to 1,000,000 instead of just 500,000, yet some rare salvage is going for less than 10,000. I thought some rare salvage (Chronal skip, enchanted impervium, mu vestment being some iirc, but I might be wrong on the actual ones) used to be 100,000,000 each. There going for 1,000,000 each. It's wierd to see.
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With the current AE farms, the number of people cashing out tickets as rare salvage has gone way up, meaning the prices are collapsing.
The one thing I think could really improve the market would be a longer price history (like say, the last 100 or 500 sales rather than the last 5) preferably with a tool to automatically calculate the average and median prices from that.
"Men strunt �r strunt och snus �r snus
om ock i gyllne dosor.
Och rosor i ett sprucket krus
�r st�ndigt alltid rosor."
The most expensive rare salvage has ever gotten was on the order of 10M, not 100M. Since the introduction of the AE, rare salvage is usually around 2M or less, with some pieces sometimes wandering into the 3-4M range.
Common salvage is high-priced right now because an AE exploit is producing lots of inf, and the AE produces no automatic salvage. You have to roll for random common salvage, and people are too busy spending their tickets buying "the good stuff". Thus there are people with more cash than normal who want salvage to craft recipes they've rolled up and none of them are producing salvage. Increased demand, reduced supply, and increased currency. That's not just inflation, folks.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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The "minimum price that flippers set", is the lowest price they can possibly buy it for. Would I rather buy something and get a 2 million inf profit, or a 4 million inf profit? High prices hurt the flippers, as well. Why are we blaming the flippers, but not the "buy-it-now-ers"? The people willing to pay the outrageous prices, and the people who take the "Last 5" as the gospel are what is helping to keep the prices so high.|
Originally Posted by TrueMetal
I know that without flippers, I personally, would buy a lot of stuf for far lower prices than I do now. I can be very patient when I have too. For some things that aren't being 'flipped' it still pays off to be patient, but for a lot of other stuff you just can't buy anything below the minimum price that flippers set.
I divide my play time between a lot of characters, so if one is on hold for a week, or even two, because I need to wait for a bid on a certain recipe or piece of salvage to be filled that's not a problem. The problem probably lies completely with me, but, say, 100.000 inf means next to nothing to me. But paying 100.000 inf for a piece of common salvage completely rubs me the wrong way. |
If nothing can be purchased below the price you're seeing at this very moment, the flippers would not be making any inf (I certainly am), and I'd have nothing to list.
Edit: LISAR basically covered my last point. GMTA.
Thank you, Champion.
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You can already buy things for 1 inf more than the flipper. The flipper is buying thing for as little as possible. So how much less than as little as possible do you expect to be able to buy things for?
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Originally Posted by TrueMetal
I know that without flippers, I personally, would buy a lot of stuf for far lower prices than I do now.
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.... and here we go ...|
Originally Posted by TrueMetal
I know that without flippers, I personally, would buy a lot of stuf for far lower prices than I do now. I can be very patient when I have too. For some things that aren't being 'flipped' it still pays off to be patient, but for a lot of other stuff you just can't buy anything below the minimum price that flippers set.
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Flippers do not set prices - welcome to this fallacy.
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Originally Posted by FourSpeed
3> Given a visible rise in Floor Price, it's an easy, and intuitive leap (albeit
mistaken) to assume the flipper is also the cause of the current Ceiling Price. |
lowest lister... that is simply how it works -- High Bid gets Low List when
Bid >= List. If he's not the low guy - he doesn't sell his stuff... Simple as that.
By very definition, he's not listing at the highest price.
Further, you can see in the last 5 what he was bidding at when he got his
bargain buys... Bid 1 over that, and *you* get the buy, not him...
There's no magic or manipulation, just simple common sense and patience.
Regards,
4
I've been rich, and I've been poor. Rich is definitely better.
Light is faster than sound - that's why some people look smart until they speak.
For every seller who leaves the market dirty stinkin' rich,
there's a buyer who leaves the market dirty stinkin' IOed. - Obitus.
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You ask for too much from me! |
Originally Posted by FourSpeed
There's no magic or manipulation, just simple common sense and patience.
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rofl |
Originally Posted by MunkiLord
You ask for too much from me!
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Yeah, I'm harsh that way.... 
4
I've been rich, and I've been poor. Rich is definitely better.
Light is faster than sound - that's why some people look smart until they speak.
For every seller who leaves the market dirty stinkin' rich,
there's a buyer who leaves the market dirty stinkin' IOed. - Obitus.
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Yeah, and there is that. Things like My Vestments and Pangean Soils used to go for a good two million a piece, and these days I can't seem to snag much more than 500 000. Of course, I'm not a patience seller, so I snag whatever is the highest going price right at that moment, but that's what that tends to be.|
Originally Posted by Nethergoat
MA is responsible for the dearth of commons.
It's been my experience that rares have crashed, at least the ones I've been flipping- buy for 500k, sell for 1-2m. |
Commons, on the other hand, seem to consistently "sell now" for thousands and thousands. Easily over 25 000, but often more than 100 000 and beyond. Well, except for Ancient Bones. Screw Ancient Bones. No-one ever wants to buy that crap for more than 1000, the greedy SOBs!
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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No, go make money off of the high prices. Capping is a fate worse than death.
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Originally Posted by Scarlet Shocker
I've been mulling this around in my head as an idea but I'm not sure how it would or could work - and I can see great benefits and I can see huge pitfalls too - maybe.
But I'm no economist and I'm not sure if I've covered all the bases. At this stage I'm not even sure if I know what the bases are so there are big gaps in my knowledge But it occurred to me that there's a discussion that's worth having here, and just seeing what other opinions are - what benefits and what disadvantages would it give? |
Virtue: @Santorican
Dark/Shield Build Thread
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Originally Posted by FourSpeed
rofl
Yeah, I'm harsh that way.... 4 |
Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
IMO forget price caps, changing the drop rates would probably have a more beneficial effect. Something gets to pricey, make it more readily available until the market is saturated enough to lower the price.
Real world commodities work like this (gasoline being a very good example).
------->"Sic Semper Tyrannis"<-------
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And if you take it in the opposite direction things like Trap of the Hunter will eventually be very rare drops. "I got three purples and a Trap of the Hunter last night." "Trap of the Hunter? I've never seen one before. What's it do?" |
Originally Posted by ebon3
IMO forget price caps, changing the drop rates would probably have a more beneficial effect. Something gets to pricey, make it more readily available until the market is saturated enough to lower the price.
Real world commodities work like this (gasoline being a very good example). |
Dr. Todt's theme.
i make stuff...
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I think some things in the game, especially the more common things, should be sold in other places than just the market. |
Originally Posted by ebon3
IMO forget price caps, changing the drop rates would probably have a more beneficial effect. Something gets to pricey, make it more readily available until the market is saturated enough to lower the price.
Real world commodities work like this (gasoline being a very good example). |
IE Common and Uncommon Salvage for example. There should be places where you can buy these items with straight INF. (Not Reward rolls, not ticket rolls, not merit rolls, just INF.)
Don't set the prices super low, but some what high, not uber high but enough that people might look on the market for better prices , like people currently do with Common IOs, already crafted etc, but this way there would be a sort of cieling on some of the more common things in the game, AND another INF sink.
Well I could go to the market and pay 60k a piece for Luck Charm, or I could go to the store and pay 10 K a piece and I know I'll get it. People will stop asking so much on the market, and it will sort of keep things even, not to mention now people are unloading some of there cash etc.
I don't think this should be applied to Rare or Ultra Rare items, but for some of the very common ones, I think it could help.
Drop rate increase would be good to an extent, but after a while things just become too common, which in the case of things that are supposed to be Rare or Ultra Rare, just would defeat the point.
"Where does he get those wonderful toys?" - The Joker
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I know it will never happen, but if I could buy common salvage off the rack, then I would dance upon a star. Seriously, this will make getting my next round of Common Inventions far, far, FAR more pleasant. Even if I had to pay a hundred large for each piece.
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Originally Posted by Ice_Wall
I think some things in the game, especially the more common things, should be sold in other places than just the market.
IE Common and Uncommon Salvage for example. There should be places where you can buy these items with straight INF. (Not Reward rolls, not ticket rolls, not merit rolls, just INF.) |
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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If the devs ever decided to sell salvage through NPCs, then I think it should be expensive so it doesn't hurt market activity much. At least 200k for common.
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Isn't 100 000 already considered expensive for Salvage? This recent exploit-induced inflation notwithstanding, that's the most expensive I've ever bought any piece of common salvage, and even then that was the "buy now" price.
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Originally Posted by MunkiLord
If the devs ever decided to sell salvage through NPCs, then I think it should be expensive so it doesn't hurt market activity much. At least 200k for common.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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I was mainly refering to high end items, rather than the low end stuff, and speaking of "Trap of the Hunter" - I swear they pass those out at the mission door like halloween candy.
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Originally Posted by Schismatrix
And if you take it in the opposite direction things like Trap of the Hunter will eventually be very rare drops. "I got three purples and a Trap of the Hunter last night." "Trap of the Hunter? I've never seen one before. What's it do?"
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------->"Sic Semper Tyrannis"<-------
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Except people want Halloween candy
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Originally Posted by ebon3
I was mainly refering to high end items, rather than the low end stuff, and speaking of "Trap of the Hunter" - I swear they pass those out at the mission door like halloween candy.
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Probably because so many people summarily delete TotHs, I occasionally check the market price of crafted ones and am pleasantly surprised to find them selling for 10M or so. As long as there's not a huge backlog of them for sale, I usually throw mine up there and often manage to sell it in short order.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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It's almost funny.|
Originally Posted by Nethergoat
MA is responsible for the dearth of commons.
It's been my experience that rares have crashed, at least the ones I've been flipping- buy for 500k, sell for 1-2m. |
MA exploit comes out; the price of Commons go through the roof. MA exploit goes away; Commons prices fall.
You can set your watch buy it.
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You know, Ebay now has an option for listings to "List Until Sold/Cancelled"?|
Originally Posted by Jet_Boy
Should they be capped? Nah.
They should have however adopt a eBay-liketime for sales - 3, 5, 7, or 10 days - as well as a rating system for sellers. 8D |
On topic: No.
As has been stated many times above, Price Caps do not do what most people think/want they would do.
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It would have the same effect price caps have in every market, which is to move people out of the market into another channel without the caps, which would basically screw everyone.|
Originally Posted by Scarlet Shocker
But it occurred to me that there's a discussion that's worth having here, and just seeing what other opinions are - what benefits and what disadvantages would it give?
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Imagine that we imposed a cap of 10k on, say, alchemical silver in WW.
What kind of idiot would you have to be to sell one there for 10k when Atlas Park is full of people who will pay 50k or more?
This comes up occasionally in the market forum, and the actual economics types have been pretty consistent in thinking it would be a disaster. Real world price caps usually are too.
I divide my play time between a lot of characters, so if one is on hold for a week, or even two, because I need to wait for a bid on a certain recipe or piece of salvage to be filled that's not a problem.
The problem probably lies completely with me, but, say, 100.000 inf means next to nothing to me. But paying 100.000 inf for a piece of common salvage completely rubs me the wrong way.
Your logic has a flaw.