Curiosity: Incarnate!

M'kay, at first this was just someone's curiosity, but now that it's mutated into this, I have to wonder: is it really that important to explain IC why/where/how your character got more powerful in-game? Do you do the same when you slot new enhancements? Mind yalls, everyone's free to do what they want, but it seems needlessly complicated to me.

It's the new shiney. Everytime there's a new issue, people want to use the new shiney in RP. It's only natural, really.

Without wanting to move the discussion into dodgy territory but the question over whether a character believes another person to be an Incarnate or not reminds me a lot of when deists see the hand of some other almighty power at work, whether that person believes it or not. The Well is clearly doing something and some people will believe that, others won't.

IIRC, Stephan Richter was always skeptical about the Well and after his exposure to it, went on to try and create the perfect technology based society. I don't think he ever once acknowledged that his new insights and abilities were based on some magic mumbo jumbo. So inevitably, the mad scientist that comes up with a way to create an orbital cannon is unlikely to think that maybe some mystical well is manipulating him. He'll just figure he got lucky or his own incredible genius led him to it. Whereas those who know of an 'believe' in the Well could point at his achievements and cry "Ah ha! Incarnate!" (At which point they'd probably get a funny look from the scientist before being incinerated by said orbital array.)

In short, people will RP the Incarnate powers however the hell they like. We already twist and bend game lore all over the place (as is our want). My demon character doesn't use Radiation Emission, it's recoloured to be spells and curses for her. Likewise none of my magic users call on the entities named on the SO enhancements. What counts is the character, game mechanics be damned.

The only thing we need to be aware of is that the Well is now entering current game lore and so people will talk about it, just as conversations turned to Praetoria when Going Rogue launched. Whether people seek the Well IC or just find new ways to explore their powers (as I've already said I will be) is entirely up to them. Whether they're Incarnate or not is about as important as what the Origin above their head says.

Hmm. Now you've got me curious: what'd you guys do when they came out with Hami-Os?

Way before my time.

Part of the purpose of discussions like this is to figure out whether the new mechanic is even suitable to acknowledge IC. The entire enhancement system is, in my experience, mostly ignored for IC purposes. I'd have no problem with someone saying they learned a new sniping technique from Manticore or a new healing spell from Numina, but I'd also have no problem with them not saying those things. If someone said IC that they'd found documents on a defeated Hydra blob detailing Manticore's sniping techniques, and mastered them with the aid of some weapons-grade uranium and a cybernetic arm, my character would be inclined to be sceptical.

In the case of Incarnates, I don't see any problem acknowledging the Incarnate phenomenon IC, but it's there for people to use, or not, IC and OOC.

...ROFL.

I am a Virtueite, but a roleplayer none the less.

But I agree, Incarnatedom should not be detectable, for those that go that path.

...I'd type more but I'm tired. xD

My main, Doctor Scotts, is a rad/rad/power defender. He utilizes technology to enhance ambient mutant abilities or afflictions. For instance, he provided the biotechnical boost to my ill/rad, Hologram Girl. Before, she could only absorb light energy and glow a little; now, full fledged delusion of splendor.

I don't RP, but I like to have a good story in my head. Nominally, Doctor Scotts has nothing to do, ever, with magic. But, as I see it, he will become the forced vessel of the spirit of Hephaestus, which will pretty much just make him more genius and inventive.

That's just it though, the Alpha slot is basically the same game equivilent as an SO applied to all your powers (33%) in the long run the Alpha slot is the easiest to handwave away as having nothing to do with being an Incarnate becuase it is nothing obvious, there is no real obvious indication EVEN IN COMBAT that you are an Incarnate.

It is downright as simple as getting a really good scope complete with night vision and distance meter for those longer ranged hits, yes you were good but with that scope on your rifle/Pistols, you're now even more awesome or widening your ammo choices (hollowpoint and armour piercing rounds used on the correct targets etc.), it is when we get to the later stages that you're going to hit a problem.

So it is not that you've just discovered gunsights exist (I never said that so stop putting freaking words in my mouth Ammon!) but you've found a piece of equipment that improves that aspect, be it a scope OR after extensive testing you've realised the gunsight was eversoslightly off and made the tweaks in order to improve your aim.

True I have no Natural characters (my Pistols/Traps defender is techbased gadgeteer) but for the Alpha slot which is just a numerical increase and nothing showy like the later ones will be you CAN handwave it and people will, so get use to it.

The Judgement slot is where Natural human orgins will simply have to be augmented with Tech in order to explain it...you can't call a Killsat attack something you can do naturally, the is no 'summon orbital killsat' move in Martial arts.

Though saying that if you're a natural Alien where you are scout and part of a hivemind with the rest of the hive is up in orbit, having sent you down to explore. You could explain the Judgement power as the Hive providing a collective bio-plasma blast from orbit should you be in trouble, heck you could probably explain away any of the Incarnate powers with that origin since you can simply claim that the hivemind is unlocking abilities as you further progress due to being seen as more and more useful beyond the average drone.

BAM! Nothing to do with the Well in that one and purely natural too.

Just because YOU want to have everything somehow inspired by the Well Ammon doesn't mean everyone else does. Techbot, as mentioned, will have sweet bupkiss to do with the well, his power will come from his own evil genuis. That works, there is no connection to a higher power, no connection to some future godlike self, it is him and him alone which creates these things and Dr Mechano would be the same.

He would have simply augemented himself with more cybernetics or AIs would have upgraded themselves to be more efficient, discovered they could push the power in their lasers a little more or worked out the kinks in their targetting matrix.

For all origins but natural it is incredibly easy to ignore the whole thing to do with the Well, it is only the natural (human, a Natural Alien can still handwave as above) origin that suffers when we get into the later stages where to do that kind of crap you simply HAVE to be an Incarnate, the Alpha slot isn't anything obvious but by heck the other ones will be.

Edit:

I will also point out the sole reason the Incarnate Taskforces give a level debuff was to actually make the Alpha slot useful as confirmed by Black Scorpion, otherwise people would be blitzing through it without a care. In other words its not so much a lore limitation as it is the devs striving to make the Alpha slot more relevant than it needs to be.

2nd Edit:

Basically the Incarnate system is pushing us closer to Superman levels of power, if Batman, a highly trained, highly intelligent natural/tech origin character can go toe to toe with Superman through use of a Battlesuit and kryptonite then it stands to reason that a Natural human with additional tech can go toe to toe with an Incarnate, sure you're nolonger using just your natural abilities and you are using a battlesuit (good use for a costume slot there) but you could RP that by having your gadgeteering compatriot design the stuff for you.

Just a question, which will probably not come out right, but I'll ask it any way.

If the devs say these slots work this way, what gives you the right to break canon and be a special snow flake and say 'actually mine work this way!' ?

They don't really give enough details as to be clear just how the damn thing works plus I'd rather not have my character linked to some rather stupid 'mystical power of the multiverse' (god that is both the source of the problem and the stupidest idea, why they couldn't have simply left it as a 'congradulations you've done something awesome, you've unlocked the Incarnate slot' like it was in GR Beta I don't know).

Most tech based characters simply don't NEED that, they're clever enough to be able to invent gadgets that could replicate anything the Well could produce by being infused with it.

Plus how the hell does 'being infused with the power of the Well' allow me to call down an Orbital Killsat...that makes absolutely NO sense whatsoever or Summon Praetorian Clockwork to help me.

That's the thing I'm going on what has been leaked ingame currently as well as what was leaked on test, so far only two of the slots actually make some vague sense (Alpha and Interface) with regards being empowered by the Well, everything else I've seen its just used as a game mechanic for things which...well anybody could replicate, you don't have to be an Incarnate to summon Praetorian PPD, you just have to be a Police Sergeant in Praetoria to do that!

Edit:

Agree with Zortel below, I'd rather have it actually fit my characters since the Devs attempts at stuff like this so far (as show in the Origin of Power/Power Proliferation) is downright nonsensical at the best of times or just plain idiotic at the worst of times (lore already ingame contradicts a lot of the stuff in the Power of Origin arc and the Power Proliferation wasn't needed) and I think pretty much all the RPers I know ignore both of those bits because they're so stupid.

Judging by the amount of people that have responded with 'meh...not following the lore on this one' with regards the Incarnate slots it seems that people following it to the letter are in the minority.

Though the besides none of the Incarnate only TFs really have the 'yeah I'm awesome I did this' so I beat Battle Maiden, like I already have done, twice (a hero's Hero and a Hero's Epic) that's not a stand out achievement. "I defeated a Goliath War Walker" they're just bigger versions of the already huge War Walkers availabe in 'a Hero's Epic' so again...nothing really stand out there.

Beside CB, since when have you EVER let lore get in the way of what you wanted to do, you tend to ignore it even more than the rest of us .

Hmm was sure you had been bending the lore for quite some time.

Bah you have me cornered, I'm sure Tech can provide an example.

Damn you CB...another time!

ok for those that want to insist incarnate powers have to, in some form, come from the Well of Furies......

That about all those player toons and NPCs that have a backstory pre dating States and Recluses and the Well event? does this mean none of these, can use the incarnate sytem ?? i mean Nemesis is going to be so pee'd off if he has no access to these new options.. hmm or is it this thread is a Nemeis plot to try to limit who picks up incsarnate powers .....

(( ducks for cover with a manic grin))