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If he was on a trial then he wouldn't be able to respond to tells. |
Originally Posted by Stealth_Bomber
So I made a new character in Praetoria this weekend and started the Tutorial. When he enters, there is another player there asking how to get capes and "better armor". Several people told him about Vet rewards. He asked about wings and I told him about the auction house and how you can get new costume parts there once you are out of the Tutorial.
So the he says, "I've only had this game 3 days, can we team and you show me around?" Instantly I was taken back six years to when some kindly soul showed me around Atlas. That person showed where Miss Liberty was, and City Hall. That was way back before you got any help at all from the game. So of course I said "Sure" and invited him to a team. I got the door mission from the cop and we started there. He easn't sure where to go so I ended up using my Assemble the Team to zap him there. Here's the broken part: when you click on the door, it says "You have too many team members to enter". We could not go in together. I wad stumped, having never run into this before. I didn't know what to do. I told him I had never had this trouble. Eventually we had to disband. I told him I would see him in Praetoria and put him on Friends. I ran thru the mission but when I got out, he was still in the Tutorial. I sent him a couple of tells but he either couldn't or didn't want to respond. A little while later he was listed as logged out. So that's the story. Devs, I'm a resubscribed six-year vet. I would have GLADLY taken this person under my wing, but we were stymied in the freaking Tutorial. I feel terrible that I couldn't salvage the situation. |
I'm guessing that the reason you can't do the tutorial mission with a team member is that it's a morality choice meaning it's solo play.
also this means he wasn't doing one very important thing in the tutorial zone READING, it means he was just clicking okay and not reading a damn thing... I am not trying to be mean or any thing but if you talk to the NPCs and read it will get you through the tutorial even has markers showing you where to go... once out of there I can understand asking how to do stuff or even asking a vet how they got something but if you can't find your way through the tutorial on yer own you are in trouble...
as far as the tells thing yea people on a trial account can't get tells and the reason you can't tream for the mission is the morality mission thing choice thing...
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I am gonna have to really agree with this here. From day one when GR went live a for a good month or so both in game and on the forums there where a lot of people new and a TON old asking where to go, who do I talk to next, and most of all the "I have no contact".|
Originally Posted by Xenophage
also this means he wasn't doing one very important thing in the tutorial zone READING, it means he was just clicking okay and not reading a damn thing... I am not trying to be mean or any thing but if you talk to the NPCs and read it will get you through the tutorial even has markers showing you where to go... once out of there I can understand asking how to do stuff or even asking a vet how they got something but if you can't find your way through the tutorial on yer own you are in trouble...
as far as the tells thing yea people on a trial account can't get tells and the reason you can't tream for the mission is the morality mission thing choice thing... |
Now while reading it on the forums alone it comes off big time that "Wow, how did Dev Team set this game up?" Only then when you get in game you find out that 9 out of 10 no one is reading anything. I lost count of the time I help people the first day to find contacts, or where to go only to find out they where not reading anything, heck a good few where saying right out after I helped them "Gee, maybe I should start reading this!?" and sadly a lot of these people where not new!
The new people I did run into, a many where happy for the help but a lot where like in the end "you mean I have to read this stuff?" I mean yeah if you are new to something you kind of have to
I mean I guess you could "wing it" but I think a lot of us know where that leads
I don't think Morality missions are solo only...the ones outside of Praet sure aren't. Unless the mission I ran last night was not WAI, because it was my mission and I hate two friends along without ill effect.
Even so, yeah. That sounds broken. And I really wish trial players could reply to tells, if not send them directly.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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Morality missions in Praetoria are solo-only. The all mention explicitly (with exception to the tutorial) that it's a single player mission and you can't be on a team to do them in red text front and center. This is because there is a "cut scene" moment at the end of each one that requires you to click between Loyalist or Rebellion.
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Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
I don't think Morality missions are solo only...the ones outside of Praet sure aren't. Unless the mission I ran last night was not WAI, because it was my mission and I hate two friends along without ill effect.
Even so, yeah. That sounds broken. And I really wish trial players could reply to tells, if not send them directly. |
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Ahh. Well, that's a bummer then =/
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Originally Posted by Mr_Right
Morality missions in Praetoria are solo-only. The all mention explicitly (with exception to the tutorial) that it's a single player mission and you can't be on a team to do them in red text front and center. This is because there is a "cut scene" moment at the end of each one that requires you to click between Loyalist or Rebellion.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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As others have pointed out nothing is broken, and it's all working as intended.
The reason the mission in the tutorial is a solo morality mission is because that is what GR is about. Making choices that affect your character and determine if he will be good or evil. It would be stupid to put that in the game and not show people what to expect in the tutorial.
Experienced players that go on morality missions outside of Praetoria aren't required to solo morality missions because they already chose a faction when they created their characters and if they decide to switch sides they only have one way to go. Also outside of Praetoria changing factions takes a lot longer. In Praetoria a character can choose to be a Loyalist in the tutorial and then when he gets his next morality mission he can switch over to the Resistance or vice versa.
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Maybe Alignment mission is a better term. It's not a morality mission like those of the Tips system, but one of the Praetorian ones that gives you the choice at the end.
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Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
Ahh. Well, that's a bummer then =/
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As far as the tells situation I think (not 100% sure on this) one reason people on trial accounts can't send a tell (though if they could reply to them that would be nice) is RMT (Real Money Traders) IF people on trial accounts could send tells it would make it much easier on RMT. At least this way they can't use a 14 day trial then spam you and CoH/NC gets another $15. Though I will say IF that is the reason I am not sure I agree with it (especially since they do a pretty good job of keeping the RMT to a minimum).
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Except when those choices mean absolutlly squat you can do all the evil things you want and still be a hero and go to paragon city afterwards. What's stupid is to put choices like that in a game and have them mean nothing at all.
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Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
The reason the mission in the tutorial is a solo morality mission is because that is what GR is about. Making choices that affect your character and determine if he will be good or evil. It would be stupid to put that in the game and not show people what to expect in the tutorial. |
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They do a good job at keeping RMT to a minimum because of measures like that. Spammers used to send tells from trials. That got blocked. Then they sent mail. That got blocked. Now they are pretty much reduced to running around Atlas talking in local in Wentworth's (yes this happens).|
Originally Posted by Xenophage
As far as the tells situation I think (not 100% sure on this) one reason people on trial accounts can't send a tell (though if they could reply to them that would be nice) is RMT (Real Money Traders) IF people on trial accounts could send tells it would make it much easier on RMT. At least this way they can't use a 14 day trial then spam you and CoH/NC gets another $15. Though I will say IF that is the reason I am not sure I agree with it (especially since they do a pretty good job of keeping the RMT to a minimum).
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Removing the barrier just means they'd come back and start up again.
"Null is as much an argument "for removing the cottage rule" as the moon being round is for buying tennis shoes." -Memphis Bill
Funny that these are the same people who get the Avid Reader badge. Irony.
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Don't forget that the Inf cap of 50,000 stymied their ability to use trials as mules to transfer their "illegal" funds.|
Originally Posted by Lemur Lad
They do a good job at keeping RMT to a minimum because of measures like that. Spammers used to send tells from trials. That got blocked. Then they sent mail. That got blocked. Now they are pretty much reduced to running around Atlas talking in local in Wentworth's (yes this happens).
Removing the barrier just means they'd come back and start up again. |
Stopping them from joining SG's stopped their ability to loot base storage where security was lax.
The level cap stopped them from creating a bunch of characters on them and power leveling them up to 50 and then selling the trial accounts login and passwords on their websites.
And the lockout on the AE has prevented them from using the AE to create farms they can exploit.
I guess I'd have to say "working as intended" = "not well thought out" in this case. I would argue that the Praetoria tutorial should be exactly like the Hero and Villain side ones, i.e. to show players the basic mechanics of the game. You can team in both of those tutorials. Morality choices, picking sides, etc. are all well and good, but too much to add to a part of the game that for some players is on the level of "how do I turn left again"?
The Praetorian tutorial needs a redesign, one that does not preclude teaming. Because when people see "massively multiplayer" in the description they assume teaming is part of the design.
Ideally, the tank will die precisely as everyone else starts fighting, allowing aggro to be spread evenly among the blaster. -seebs, "How to Suck at CoH/CoV" Guide
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I'm sorry but you are wrong. The tutorial is actually very well thought out.|
Originally Posted by Stealth_Bomber
I guess I'd have to say "working as intended" = "not well thought out" in this case.
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| I would argue that the Praetoria tutorial should be exactly like the Hero and Villain side ones, i.e. to show players the basic mechanics of the game. |
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| You can team in both of those tutorials. |
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| Morality choices, picking sides, etc. are all well and good, but too much to add to a part of the game that for some players is on the level of "how do I turn left again"? |
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| The Praetorian tutorial needs a redesign, one that does not preclude teaming. |
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| Because when people see "massively multiplayer" in the description they assume teaming is part of the design. |
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The point of a tutorial is to teach people how the game will be played. In Praetoria you cannot team on the Resistance/Loyalist choice missions. The tutorial teaches that.|
Originally Posted by Stealth_Bomber
I guess I'd have to say "working as intended" = "not well thought out" in this case. I would argue that the Praetoria tutorial should be exactly like the Hero and Villain side ones, i.e. to show players the basic mechanics of the game. You can team in both of those tutorials. Morality choices, picking sides, etc. are all well and good, but too much to add to a part of the game that for some players is on the level of "how do I turn left again"?
The Praetorian tutorial needs a redesign, one that does not preclude teaming. Because when people see "massively multiplayer" in the description they assume teaming is part of the design. |
Personally I would prefer separate tutorials for Resistance and Loyalist and choose those at creation but there's nothing inherently wrong with the method in place.
total kick to the gut
This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.
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While I agree the tutorial is good I would argue that is doesn't teach you that you can't team on alignment missions as there is nothing to indicate this until you click the mission door in a team (as outlined in the OP.) That needs adjustment, nothing else though. The rest is good.
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Originally Posted by SwellGuy
The point of a tutorial is to teach people how the game will be played. In Praetoria you cannot team on the Resistance/Loyalist choice missions. The tutorial teaches that.
Personally I would prefer separate tutorials for Resistance and Loyalist and choose those at creation but there's nothing inherently wrong with the method in place. |
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Thank you. That's what I'm trying to say. Something along the lines of the hints you get like "you are about to face an AV/Elite Boss" mission description.
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Originally Posted by Diggis
While I agree the tutorial is good I would argue that is doesn't teach you that you can't team on alignment missions as there is nothing to indicate this until you click the mission door in a team (as outlined in the OP.) That needs adjustment, nothing else though. The rest is good.
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Ideally, the tank will die precisely as everyone else starts fighting, allowing aggro to be spread evenly among the blaster. -seebs, "How to Suck at CoH/CoV" Guide
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Arguing opinion is a logical fallacy. It's like arguing red versus blue as a favorite color.|
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
I'm sorry but you are wrong. The tutorial is actually very well thought out.
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Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
Again you are wrong. Praetoria is the only part of the game that has morality missions that must be soloed. Therefore the tutorial is the perfect place to introduce players to those types of missions. Morality missions are at the core of what Praetoria is all about. It was the feature that was most hyped..
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Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
Not relevent. New players cannot create heroes and villains and so cannot go thru their tutorials until after they have gone thru Praetoria. At that point the ability to team in the tutorial is moot.
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Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
Right. It's far better to leave them wondering, "WTF? This should have been mentioned in the tutorial!" when they discover they can't create a team to do a morality mission after they enter Praetoria.
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Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
No it doesn't. It's the best tutorial of the three they have put out.
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Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
Do not presume to speak for everyone that plays MMO's. They do not all blindly assume that teaming is a part of the design. I know I never have. Over the years I have learned that a significant portion of every MMO's player base prefer to solo. They play the games not for the teaming but because they enjoy the genre of the game
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But more importantly, in the CoH Game Manual, on page 58, there is an entire section about teaming and how to form and run teams. So any new player would naturally want to do this. In fact the person I ran into specifically asked to team.
If teaming is not possible, it should be clearly stated.
Ideally, the tank will die precisely as everyone else starts fighting, allowing aggro to be spread evenly among the blaster. -seebs, "How to Suck at CoH/CoV" Guide
If you aren't going to read the tutorial messages or the red exclamation point messages to learn what is going on how will a message in the mission telling you it's solo going to help?
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Exactly. |
Originally Posted by LISAR
If you aren't going to read the tutorial messages or the red exclamation point messages to learn what is going on how will a message in the mission telling you it's solo going to help?
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At most all the devs need to do is add one line of text at the last contact that says, "You must do this mission solo."
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Agreed...
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Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
Exactly.
At most all the devs need to do is add one line of text at the last contact that says, "You must do this mission solo." |
[QUOTE] Not relevent. New players cannot create heroes and villains and so cannot go thru their tutorials until after they have gone thru Praetoria. At that point the ability to team in the tutorial is moot. [QUOTE]
Wait...what? Since when can new players not make Hero and Villain characters? I made a villain a few days ago.
Can players who start with buying GR seriously not make real Heroes/Villains? Are they forced to play via Praetoria? If so, that's wacky.
The Widow's Dark Hand - leader of Faux Pas
Champion Server
Tee Hee!
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I don't want to join the Rebellion. I want to go rogue, like Han Solo.
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Originally Posted by Mr_Right
requires you to click between Loyalist or Rebellion.
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Speeding Through New DA Repeatables || Spreadsheet o' Enhancements || Zombie Skins: better skins for these forums || Guide to Guides
So I made a new character in Praetoria this weekend and started the Tutorial. When he enters, there is another player there asking how to get capes and "better armor". Several people told him about Vet rewards. He asked about wings and I told him about the auction house and how you can get new costume parts there once you are out of the Tutorial.
So the he says, "I've only had this game 3 days, can we team and you show me around?"
Instantly I was taken back six years to when some kindly soul showed me around Atlas. That person showed where Miss Liberty was, and City Hall. That was way back before you got any help at all from the game.
So of course I said "Sure" and invited him to a team. I got the door mission from the cop and we started there. He easn't sure where to go so I ended up using my Assemble the Team to zap him there.
Here's the broken part: when you click on the door, it says "You have too many team members to enter". We could not go in together.
I wad stumped, having never run into this before. I didn't know what to do. I told him I had never had this trouble.
Eventually we had to disband. I told him I would see him in Praetoria and put him on Friends. I ran thru the mission but when I got out, he was still in the Tutorial. I sent him a couple of tells but he either couldn't or didn't want to respond. A little while later he was listed as logged out.
So that's the story. Devs, I'm a resubscribed six-year vet. I would have GLADLY taken this person under my wing, but we were stymied in the freaking Tutorial. I feel terrible that I couldn't salvage the situation.
Ideally, the tank will die precisely as everyone else starts fighting, allowing aggro to be spread evenly among the blaster. -seebs, "How to Suck at CoH/CoV" Guide