City of Heroes: Live Forum Archive

Why can't we combine patches and server maintenance?

beyeajus

By beyeajus,
Posted on: 2010-09-27 20:45 in Player Questions

 

Posted

I understand that the servers need to come down to apply patches and to perform maintenance, But why can't we do both at once.

It's frustrating when the game is unavailable when you want to play it and it's worse when it's twice a week and happens rather regualrly.

50s: Inv/SS PB Emp/Dark Grav/FF DM/Regen TA/A Sonic/Elec MA/Regen Fire/Kin Sonic/Rad Ice/Kin Crab Fire/Cold NW Merc/Dark Emp/Sonic Rad/Psy Emp/Ice WP/DB FA/SM

Overlord of Dream Team and Nightmare Squad

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bionic_Flea View Post
I understand that the servers need to come down to apply patches and to perform maintenance, But why can't we do both at once.

It's frustrating when the game is unavailable when you want to play it and it's worse when it's twice a week and happens rather regualrly.
i think the patches tend to go live the day before maintenance so that they can tweak them during maintenance after having a day to see how they perform live. But that's just a hunch.

Dr. Todt's theme.
i make stuff...

 

Posted

2 hours one day for patch.
2 hours another day for maint.
Neither one affects my play time at all, or I only lose a bit.

4 hours for patch and maint.
I don't get to play at all that day.

I know which option I would pick.

@Roderick

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bionic_Flea View Post
I understand that the servers need to come down to apply patches and to perform maintenance, But why can't we do both at once.

It's frustrating when the game is unavailable when you want to play it and it's worse when it's twice a week and happens rather regularly.
Short version: servers don't work like that.
  • First: Back in 2003 NCSoft cut a deal with Microsoft to exclusively use NT5 64bit for all of it's hosting OS needs. Given that NCSoft has not publically cut a new contract with Microsoft for any NT6 operating systems, nor cut a contract with a traditional Linux or Unix vendor, the assumption has to be made that NCSoft is still running NT5 64bit as the background server for it's games.

    One of the factors to keep in mind is that Microsoft's server presence is pretty low, with everybody from Netcraft to Top500 Supercomputers knocking Microsoft's ability to provide stable software that requires little regular maintenance. There's a reason why major financial institutions like the London Stock Exchange, and many Wall-Street brokerages in the US, don't use Microsoft products. There's also a reason that most other MMO providers (such as Blizzard and EA / Mythic) generally run their MMO's on *nix type systems.

    Assuming that NCSoft does not have a migration plan to get their games off of Microsoft products and onto a *nix system, the regular maintenance required for NCSoft games is going to continue. You can wish and wish all you want for that maintenance to go away... but unless the server background tech changes, it isn't.

  • Second: because the maintenance required for systems running on what are assumable NTFS formatted drives, rather than fragmentation resistant file systems such as EXT, BTRFS, or even Reiser, is in and of itself time consuming, there is no way to run both a patch and verify session at the same time a disk-check and verify is going on.

    Seriously. Try running a chkdks /f /r on YOUR primary hard-drive while trying to use the Operating System.

  • Third: To spin the rumor-mill for a minute, there is some evidence that the background technology could be changing. One of the hot-rumors floating around is that Infogrames is trying to play nasty over NCsoft's usage of a Cryptic developed engine, reportedly because Infogrames does not understand why their super-hero MMO failed to bury NCSoft's Superhero MMO in the marketplace and figures that if Infogrames can't kill the competition fairly, they'll do it legally.

    It has been suggested that NCSoft has authorized the development of a new processing engine, or is in the process of porting another existing engine to be used as the processing engine for CoH. It has been suggested that Issue 20 could be bringing a version of CoH backed by Valve's updated Source engine, and native code clients for Windows NT6, Windows NT5, Apple OSX, and Linux. A new processing engine could mean a new background server system, presumably one that is based on *nix type technology. Is this any of this true? I don't know. Again, this is entirely spinning the rumor-mill.

    Moving to a *nix type OS to host the game would allow use of a fragmentation resistant file-system, and lessen the amount of maintenance required to keep the game in a functional state. Again, I don't know if NCSoft is actually going to pursue such a strategy. (watch me be right and have the devs cursing at me again)

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bionic_Flea View Post
I understand that the servers need to come down to apply patches and to perform maintenance, But why can't we do both at once.

It's frustrating when the game is unavailable when you want to play it and it's worse when it's twice a week and happens rather regualrly.
My impression is that they usually DO patch on maintenance days. I could be wrong- it's your peak playtime, you pay more attention than I do. I've only reported one very serious bug in the system (I could have gotten 50 characters to the inf cap in one day) and they had a fix through to live in about 24 hours, resulting in a patch on a non-Thursday.

Mini-guides: Force Field Defenders, Blasters, Market Self-Defense, Frankenslotting.

So you think you're a hero, huh.
@Boltcutter in game.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fulmens View Post
My impression is that they usually DO patch on maintenance days. I could be wrong- it's your peak playtime, you pay more attention than I do. I've only reported one very serious bug in the system (I could have gotten 50 characters to the inf cap in one day) and they had a fix through to live in about 24 hours, resulting in a patch on a non-Thursday.
Well there's a patch happening today, which is a non-Thursday.

I thought usually Thursdays were maintenance days and Tuesdays were patch days. Which makes sense because if anything horrible does occur due to a bad patch you aren't frantically applying a counter-patch / band-aid on a Friday and then basically buggering off home for the weekend.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fulmens View Post
My impression is that they usually DO patch on maintenance days. I could be wrong- it's your peak playtime, you pay more attention than I do. I've only reported one very serious bug in the system (I could have gotten 50 characters to the inf cap in one day) and they had a fix through to live in about 24 hours, resulting in a patch on a non-Thursday.
The scheduled maintenance day is every Thursday, but patches are usually released on Tuesdays, including today.

Personally, I don't mind. I'm just trying to state the point of view of this thread. Checking the Patch Note history confirms the majority of patches are not on Thursday.

 

Posted

So what's the patch details? Something to read while we wait at least...

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by beyeajus View Post
So what's the patch details? Something to read while we wait at least...

They're released after the patch/maintenance.

Wanted: Origin centric story arcs.
If you've only played an AT once (one set combo) and "hate" it - don't give up. Roll a different combo. It may just be those sets not clicking for you.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by beyeajus View Post
So what's the patch details? Something to read while we wait at least...
Unofficial notes can usually be found on the Training Room forums:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Avatea View Post
Patch notes for build 1850.201009101722.1T.

COMBINED

Alignment System
  • Characters under level 20 can no longer be awarded credit for alignment missions before level 20.

Powers

General
  • Burn (all versions) – the tick damage will now show up in combat chat as pet damage.

Critters
  • Rikti Chiefs shouldn’t skate any more.

Invention
  • Chance to Heal Self IO's will no longer heal enemies when slotted into Chain type powers.

Tasks
  • Cathedral of Pain - Fixed Merit diminishing returns. Merit rewards were dropping off too quickly when diminishing returns kicked in. This has been fixed.
  • Warburg Missiles can no longer be used in the Cathedral of Pain.

Bases
  • Corrected the swapped prestige costs for Small Steel Lab Tank and Steel Alembic Tank.

Badges
  • Fixed a bug that prevented being awarded the Day Job Accolade Mercenary.
  • Fixed a bug that prevented being awarded the Day Job Accolade Rapid Response (Hero)/Trouble Maker (Villain)

CITY OF HEROES

City Zones
  • Someone had kidnapped all the wandering pedestrians in Paragon City. They have now been rescued to pace the streets once more.

Powers

Blasters
  • Force Mastery/Force of Nature - The bonus recovery of this power was marked to ignore Buffs and debuffs, including enhancements. This has been corrected and it is now enhanceable and buffable.
  • Fire Manipulation/Burn – This power will no longer damage the caster on its first tick.

Controllers
  • Mace Mastery/Personal Force Field - This power has been replaced with Focused Accuracy.

Defenders
  • Power Mastery/Force of Nature - The bonus recovery of this power was marked to ignore Buffs and debuffs, including enhancements. This has been corrected and it is now enhanceable and buffable.

Tankers
  • Fixed a number of Patron Powers that were not unlocking properly at level 41:
  • Mu Mastery/Electrifying Fences
  • Mace Mastery/Web Grenade
  • Leviathan Mastery/School of Sharks

Badges
  • The Achievement badge for completing a Hero Morality Mission has been renamed "Gallant" from "Resolute" to correct a duplicate title with the Veteran badge "Resolute".

Tasks
  • Fixed a bug in the first mission of the Positron Task Force (Teleport Assault into Orenbega) which could cause critters not to move.
  • Peregrine Island - Maria Jenkins - Olympian Guards now spawn at an appropriate level.

CITY OF VILLAINS

Powers

Dominators
  • Primal Forces Mastery/Energy Transfer - Reduced Self Damage from scale 2.75 to Scale 3.0
  • Primal Forces Mastery/Energy Transfer - Correct IO Set Slotting -- no longer accepts Stun or Melee AoE sets, now accepts Melee IO Sets.
  • Ice Mastery/Sleet - increased recharge time from 60s to 90s.

Masterminds
  • Ancillary Power Pools: attack powers in these pools were incorrectly given a chance to crit. This chance has been removed.
  • Field Mastery/Temporary Invulnerability – This power now properly accepts Resistance IO sets instead of Defense IO sets
  • Robotics/Battle Drones - fixed grammar in the info text.

Stalkers
  • Kinetic Melee/Build Up - adjusted the Cast Time from 1.93 to 1.17 to match other versions of the power.

PRAETORIA

Critters
  • Destroyer Crusher bats should no longer become invisible.
  • Praetorian Clockwork Dismantler - "Particle Burst" no longer automatically hits its target.

Tasks
  • All Praetoria Story Arcs will now give out the proper amount of completion XP, before some were giving out slightly lower XP than intended.
  • Charles Monroe must now be defeated before you actually arrest him.
  • Jessica Flores is clearer in her instructions for her mission to manipulate files inside Athena Labs.
  • Metronome now makes an effort to stop you from rescuing Susan Beck, but less so with Alec Parson.
  • Alec Parson will now really tell you important information over the micro-communicator as you are investigating the Haywire Clockwork in M.I.C.I.R.
  • Dumpster, the Resistance Leader in Praetor White's "Rescue PPD in Tunnels", will now appropriately display his information.
  • Clockwork in Penelope Yin's mission to "Retrieve Clockwork info for Aaron" will no longer say the word "TEXT"
  • The clues for Warrant's storyarc, Guns and Money, no longer have their titles chopped off.
  • The Resistance attack on Gravatech Labs now has a more 'heroic' pace to it.
  • The computer desk inside Athena Labs is now correctly oriented.
  • Neutropolis - On Neuron's "Help Test Neuron's Latest Experiment", the clone will use its powers as expected to fight back.
  • Neutropolis - Allies will now spawn at the correct level during Calvin Scott's "Assist the Storehouse Raid" mission.
  • Neutropolis - Penelope Yin: Players of opposing factions can no longer attack each other on Penelope Yin's final mission.

Badges
  • Defeats of Nightstar as appearing in the Praetorian arcs now counts towards the Dimensional Warder badge.

Known Issue

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by je_saist View Post
Short version: servers don't work like that.
  • One of the factors to keep in mind is that Microsoft's server presence is pretty low, with everybody from Netcraft to Top500 Supercomputers knocking Microsoft's ability to provide stable software that requires little regular maintenance. There's a reason why major financial institutions like the London Stock Exchange, and many Wall-Street brokerages in the US, don't use Microsoft products. There's also a reason that most other MMO providers (such as Blizzard and EA / Mythic) generally run their MMO's on *nix type systems.

First, wouldn't one of the big reasons places like LSE, etc, avoid Microsoft be due to one of the side effects of Windows saturation - namely, the numbers of hacks/virus/etc. out there targeting Windows - or do you count that as part of the "stability" issue?

And also, while NCSoft does their maintenance more often then blizzard, Blizzard also takes down for most/all of a day, from what I recall, when they run maintenance.

Orc&Pie No.53230 There is an orc, and somehow, he got a pie. And you are hungry.
www.repeat-offenders.net

Negaduck: I see you found the crumb. I knew you'd never notice the huge flag.

 

Posted

I always find it funny that people get "frustrated" when this game goes down for either patches and/or regular maintenance. I imagine if the overall uptime of this game since April, 28 2004 was charted out it'd be in the 99+ percent range and yet that's STILL not good enough for some.

Ironically I suspect there would be fewer people upset about these sparse downtimes if the percentage was more like 50/50. If we had frequent downtimes then at least people would actually be used to it. Basically this game is a victim of its own success in this regard.

Loth 50 Fire/Rad Controller [1392 Badges] [300 non-AE Souvenirs]
Ryver 50 Ele� Blaster [1392 Badges]
Silandra 50 Peacebringer [1138 Badges] [No Redside Badges]
--{=====> Virtue ♀

 

Posted

Well they normally push a patch the 2nd day after a weekend, because you don't want people recovering from a weekend to do anything major and it allows them to double check everything. Also by pushing a patch then gives them a chance to fix anything that goes horribly wrong before the weekend.

Maintenance the day before the start of the weekend is somewhat obvious since the weekend is peak playing time.

Father Xmas - Level 50 Ice/Ice Tanker - Victory
$725 and $1350 parts lists --- My guide to computer components

Tempus unum hominem manet

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Father Xmas View Post
Well they normally push a patch the 2nd day after a weekend, because you don't want people recovering from a weekend to do anything major and it allows them to double check everything. Also by pushing a patch then gives them a chance to fix anything that goes horribly wrong before the weekend.

Maintenance the day before the start of the weekend is somewhat obvious since the weekend is peak playing time.
http://www.mmodesigner.com/?p=138

[url="http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/User:SaintNicster"]ParagonWiki User Page[/url]

[url="http://cit.cohtitan.com/profile/214#list"]City Info Tracker[/url]

 

Posted

Have you ever tried to apply a patch to a server that wasn't turned on? I hear it's not easy

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Obsidius View Post
Have you ever tried to apply a patch to a server that wasn't turned on? I hear it's not easy
*psh* That's why we have hammers and epoxy.

Dr. Todt's theme.
i make stuff...

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintNicster View Post
Well, there you have it, from the horse's mouth. That was a link to Positron's Blog were he basically gives the same explanation as Father Xmas.

50s: Inv/SS PB Emp/Dark Grav/FF DM/Regen TA/A Sonic/Elec MA/Regen Fire/Kin Sonic/Rad Ice/Kin Crab Fire/Cold NW Merc/Dark Emp/Sonic Rad/Psy Emp/Ice WP/DB FA/SM

Overlord of Dream Team and Nightmare Squad