Emperor Cole at the end of the Power Loyalist Arc...
By
AnElfCalledMack,
Posted on: 2010-09-20 14:19 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
It's blindness, pure and simple. Looking at it from a perspective from within Praetoria, the Resistance can't win, even if they do, everyone will be dead.
I agree with Abrahms. If your character's so morally blind that they can't see what's wrong with Genocide if 'they're gonna attack you first' or 'they don't have freedom' then your character is on the same level as frickin Tyrant.
It's not giving them a choice if you refuse to let them have their own choice.
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Then you need to learn patience - killing the people you're meant to be helping isn't a good idea |
Originally Posted by EvilGeko
It's the same choice the U.S. imposed on Japan at the end of WWII. You will surrender or there will be no you.
If Cole demands his empire then there will be no empire. Freedom or death. There's no middle ground. There's no, "you're just as bad as Cole." That's the oppressor's BS. The Crusaders will not live under Cole nor suffer to allow his evil empire to exist. I admire their courage and have no patience for the idea that living as drugged sheep is preferable. |
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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Well, I'll agree with you on one point. The Crusaders are not "as bad as Cole". They are much, much worse. It's a point that you do not seem to comprehend, but as long as humanity survives, the struggle can continue. I am not, nor have I ever said "give up entirely". What I am saying is that as long as the people live, there is a chance for freedom, and the Crusaders want to take that chance away. They're not calling for "Freedom or death", but just Death.|
Originally Posted by EvilGeko
It's the same choice the U.S. imposed on Japan at the end of WWII. You will surrender or there will be no you.
If Cole demands his empire then there will be no empire. Freedom or death. There's no middle ground. There's no, "you're just as bad as Cole." That's the oppressor's BS. The Crusaders will not live under Cole nor suffer to allow his evil empire to exist. I admire their courage and have no patience for the idea that living as drugged sheep is preferable. |
If you continue the struggle, Freedom will come. As players we even know when and where the Freedom will come from: The Heroes of Paragon City. But those Heroes will not be able to do much good tomorrow, if the Crusaders have killed everyone today.
The Abrams is one of the most effective war machines on the planet. - R. Lee Ermy.
Q: How do you wreck an Abrams?
A: You crash into another one.
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So, you're okay with making that choice for everyone else? I know I'd rather be alive that dead, just because some others would rather I be dead than alive so they can spit in the face of some guy.
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Originally Posted by EvilGeko
Better the human race on Praetoria die off than that fate.
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Who said I'm there to help. I'm here to take my freedom back from a madman.
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Originally Posted by Golden Girl
Then you ned to learn patience - killing the people you're meant to be helping isn't a good idea
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The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
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Damn straight I am. Freedom or death.
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Originally Posted by Zikar
So, you're okay with making that choice for everyone else? I know I'd rather be alive that dead, just because some others would rather I be dead than alive so they can spit in the face of some guy.
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The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
Your Freedom or some innocent civilian's deaths. Hero, your character is, truly.
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Well, you're already halfway dead as one of Tyrant's dehumanized zombie slaves |
Originally Posted by Zikar
So, you're okay with making that choice for everyone else? I know I'd rather be alive that dead, just because some others would rather I be dead than alive so they can spit in the face of some guy.
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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And you don't see anything wrong with making that decision for others?|
Originally Posted by EvilGeko
Damn straight I am. Freedom or death.
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Originally Posted by Golden Girl
Well, you're already halfway dead as one of Tyrant's dehumanized zombie slaves
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It doesn't matter which side the fanatic is on.
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No you can't recover so long as the Tyrant is in place. You can't say that I'm making the choice. TYRANT made the choice the second he decided that he gets to be god. He doesn't. He can either abdicate or he's going to have a civil war.|
Originally Posted by Zikar
And you don't see anything wrong with making that decision for others?
Better than being full-way dead. I can recover from one, but not the other. |
There's no other option. In all of human history, tyrants have been opposed. The human condition will not accept this. Whether the Crusaders win or not, another group will either win (like the Syndicate), or another will rise up later. One way or the other, there will be no peace so long as there is tyranny.
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
If you kill everyone, Tyrant is still in charge. It might be a charged wasteland, but I don't think it'll bother him for too long.
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I'm proud to be a fanatic for liberty.
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Originally Posted by Jetpack
It doesn't matter which side the fanatic is on.
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The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
EvilGeko's character seems to be one of those who'd make the world burn than for no other reason than he was mildy inconvenienced.
There's being against Tyranny and there's being idiotic, the Resistance, in essentially trying to get them all killed by wrecking the stability and infrastructure of the entire city, the only infrastructure they have, is the latter.
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Which is why Tyrant is trying to wipe out humanity |
Originally Posted by EvilGeko
There's no other option. In all of human history, tyrants have been opposed. The human condition will not accept this.
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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At that point he's in charge of only himself. And his evil will have caused the death of all those people, not anything the revolutionaries did. Dictators cannot be given quarter nor those who are willing to trade liberty for safety.
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Originally Posted by Zikar
If you kill everyone, Tyrant is still in charge. It might be a charged wasteland, but I don't think it'll bother him for too long.
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The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
Like the henchman said, "Sic Semper Tyrannosaurus!"
"I believe you find life such a problem because you think there are the good people and the bad people. You're wrong, of course. There are, always and only, the bad people, but some of them are on opposite sides." Lord Vetinari, Guards! Guards! by Terry Pratchett.
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Resorting to personal attacks again. A pity. Well, it's not like you have any meaningful arguments. I don't blame you. Supporting tyranny is a difficult proposition.
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Originally Posted by BenRGamer
Just... stop feeding the troll.
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The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
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That quote is sooooooo full of win and very true, just ask icarus.
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Originally Posted by Progressman
... is my favorite ending of a story arc in the game.
http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Neuron#Aid_the_Loyalists I couldn't imagine bringing myself to side with the Resistance after this.  "Too many have already forgotten how hubris nearly destroyed us all." |
Virtue: @Santorican
Dark/Shield Build Thread
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LOL - especially the liberty to kill whoever you choose.|
Originally Posted by EvilGeko
I'm proud to be a fanatic for liberty.
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My kind of place!
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Only those who support tyranny my friend.
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Originally Posted by Jetpack
LOL - especially the liberty to kill whoever you choose.
My kind of place! |
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
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Okay. That's stupid. That's one of the stupidest things I've ever heard.|
Originally Posted by EvilGeko
At that point he's in charge of only himself. And his evil will have caused the death of all those people, not anything the revolutionaries did. Dictators cannot be given quarter nor those who are willing to trade liberty for safety.
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You can't excuse people for committing atrocities, no matter what side of a war they were on. They're called 'War Crimes' for a reason. And the moment someone forgets that, they're no better than the people they're fighting.
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Or whoever is the wrong hospital at the wrong time.|
Originally Posted by EvilGeko
Only those who support tyranny my friend.
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Now, if all of the citizens have the new and improved MOG, they should be fine.
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Asking Tyrant might be better |
Originally Posted by Santorican
That quote is sooooooo full of win and very true, just ask icarus.
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
EDIT: Actually, I have a question for the Crusader supporters. Let's say your plans succeed, and Utopia city is now a smoldering shell, and everyone inside is dead. How, exactly, is any of this supposed to destroy Cole's empire, when he can simply fly to the next largest populated city on the planet, and ask for greater controls over the populous, to prevent the tragedy which has just happened from repeating itself?
Cole himself is OK with letting Arachnos waste a third of his city because he can use it to further demonize the Resistance. Your characters have to disobey his orders to prevent the destruction from happening. So, how is teh great Crusader plan supposed to work if it's NOT genocide?
If Cole demands his empire then there will be no empire. Freedom or death. There's no middle ground. There's no, "you're just as bad as Cole." That's the oppressor's BS. The Crusaders will not live under Cole nor suffer to allow his evil empire to exist. I admire their courage and have no patience for the idea that living as drugged sheep is preferable.
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.